Tizzi 1 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hi Guys, My lurcher is coming on 14 months now, she's been brought up on a mixture of raw maet, dry food and bones, she was looking stunning untill a coupld of weeks ago when she started to thin on her back legs, the rest of her coat is sound, just not as shiny as it was but still nice. Anyone had the same issue and cleared it up wit additions to the diet rather than ointments or creams? Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bert the fert 28 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Hi Guys, My lurcher is coming on 14 months now, she's been brought up on a mixture of raw maet, dry food and bones, she was looking stunning untill a coupld of weeks ago when she started to thin on her back legs, the rest of her coat is sound, just not as shiny as it was but still nice. Anyone had the same issue and cleared it up wit additions to the diet rather than ointments or creams? Cheers That's exactly where my lurcher loses coat when she has a flare up of demodectic mange. A skin scraping at the vets will tell you whether it's mites or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tizzi 1 Posted January 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Was your dogs hair loss symetircal? and was it loss or just thinning, spoke to a friend whos a vet and she said it wouldn't be mange if it is symetrical... Dose yours still flare up? Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 6,174 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Kelp Seaweed Powder: get the good stuff from Dorwest Herbs: quality tested and no rubbish. Kelp contains all the minerals essential to health. Cured one of my dogs from thinning fur and a possible thyroid problem. Some dogs also get this hair loss problem due to stress, but in my case it was definitely an imbalance/lack of something found in the kelp. And she was also intolerant to cereals, but this was a problem which didn't show up until she was 6 years old: intolerances to certain things can build up over years and years before they show an outward effect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bert the fert 28 Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 Was your dogs hair loss symetircal? and was it loss or just thinning, spoke to a friend whos a vet and she said it wouldn't be mange if it is symetrical... Dose yours still flare up? Cheers It hasn't flared up for a couple of years or more now, but when it did it was triggered once by Pob being ill. Then the dogs immune system can't suppress the growth. The other times have been when she's had too much red meat in her diet. She loses her hair on the backs of her thighs, and on her belly and ribcage. Pob was at her worst when we found her [ she was a rescue ] and she'd have been about a year old which is when demodex is usually most active. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tizzi 1 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Thanks people, This is really useful, Skycat - That is just what i'm looking for, a natural remidy, I had herd this was the best thing, just ordered some! She dose get a fair bit of red meat in her diet so tis could be an issue, although she didn't have a problem with it before I'll see if teh kelp works and if it gets worse she'll go for a check up Thanks again guys! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 6,174 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 The dog I mentioned now has a diet purely of chicken carcases, tripe, red meat (beef) lamb trimmings, rabbits and occasionally a bit of cooked rice if I'm short of meat, and from having to have the kelp every day she now gets it 2 or 3 times a week. Also gets minced cabbage, carrot, spinach, and most garden veg when we have it. She has never had a problem since BUT if I even give her one meal with a bit of cereal starch in in: complete dog food, for example, you can see that she's uncomfortable: give her two meals and she starts scratching. Not saying this is the same as your bitch, but something to think about? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,263 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) I'd go along with bert and suggest a trip to the vets to check for a medical problem, ie skin scraping and also a blood test for thyroid function as a first step. Do you massage the dog as many racers both greys, whippets and lurchers have damage to the hair follicles due to this. Probably the commonest cause of skin problems is stress, either physical or emotional, so I’d avoid any radical changes to diet, get the results from the vets and act on anything found and bare in mind that if nothing comes to light then things often settle in their own time as the dog matures. Unfortunately these oft promoted “natural remedies” have no effect outside of the head of the owner, if kelp really promoted hair growth then it would be worth a mint, just imagine all the bald men queuing up for it at the chemist. Again allergies are more often in the head than the tummy, I’ve had dogs for 40 years and never had a problem yet some people have every dog on a herb for this and a supplement for that, it’s a good scam for parting the pony club set from their money that would be better spent on the skin scrapping and blood test. You’ll be getting homeopathy remedies suggested next . Edit for spelling Edited January 5, 2011 by sandymere Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 6,174 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 How can an allergy or intolerance be in the 'head' (suggested/neurotic/seeing what is not there) when you are talking about a dog? All I know is that kelp helped my bitch who had had bald thighs for years, and now she hasn't. She is now 7 1/2 years old and was bald legged until I gave her kelp and got her off cereals. I know that there's no 'science' in what I did, but it worked and that is good enough for me: plus the fact that Dorwest Herbs recommended Kelp when I asked them about the problem. Had it not worked then I would have gone the route of vets, skin scrapes etc etc, but it did, and that's great. And please don't suggest that the problem just cleared up on its own as it was getting steadily worse. The itching began about a year, very slightly at first, before I gave her Kelp: cutting out cereals helped quite a bit, but the Kelp finally cured her. Just because something isn't 'scientifically' proven doesn't mean to say that it isn't working. I agree that there is no substitute for science in many cases, but diet is a complicated and intricate problem, and what suits one dog may not suit another. Most dogs will go their whole lives without suffering from allergies or food intolerances, but there are some who fail to absorb a nutrient, or are unable to make use of certain nutrients if their diet is in some way not right for them. You need to have an awful lot of dogs, or study the subject, for years before making any claims: note that I only say that it worked for me, and I have no scientific proof of the whys and wherefores. I didn't say that kelp promoted hair growth: IMO, humble lay person, non scientist that I am, if there is a deficiency in a a mineral or two in the diet, or if the dog is intolerant to a certain food, then adding kelp to a diet which has been found not to irritate the dog, it can help. I will always believe the evidence of my own eyes rather than believing a scientist who hasn't been in my position. Doctors and vets don't know everything, neither do I, and any vet will tell you that skin problems can be a 'needle in a haystack' nightmare to solve. Funny though, that Dorwest, who have been dealing with such problems for many years, are very well respected, and have helped countless thousands of dogs: maybe you should talk to them a bit Sandymere: get the picture from the other side of the counter so to speak: from the natural remedy people: I guess that the discussion could get slightly heated though LOL LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reload Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Sandymere, everyone is entitled to there view. But you calling a company that supplies licensed herbal medicines to around 50% of vets in the UK and deals with around 20 countries world wide for the last 60 plus years a Scam really shows how little understanding you have. Hair thinning on the back of the legs is a common Greyhound/whippet problem and is often seen worse in blue or blacks animals with short coats. Yes in many cases high quality supplements (kelp Seaweed Powder/tablets and Evening Primrose Oil) improve this, so It is worth giving it a go for around 4-6 weeks to see the start of an improvement. Quite commonly it can also be a genetic problem seen often as I mentioned earlier in dogs with alot of whippet/greyhound with thin coats. There is no doubt you will see a good improvement in coat and condition using the above mentioned supplements but if it is a genetic problem you will be unlikely to see a return totally of the coat. Good luck. Edited January 5, 2011 by reload Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,263 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) I didnt mention any companies I made general statement about unproven, often untested medications that call themselves herbal. I have no vested interest in there promotion or otherwise. If you want to support these products then show me some evidence and I don't mean antidotal rubbish. Id agree the hair loss may have a genetic link but fail to see how a herb will change genetics. Please follow the link and then answer the questions raised. I will post the replies on the bad science forum for open discussion. http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/543/#more-543 http://quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/herbs.html I can post lots of cases where alternative type medicines have done real harm if you like but it would be a little off subject perhaps you would like to start a thread on alternative therapies, holistic care or such like and Ill pot the horror stories there . Edited January 5, 2011 by sandymere Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reload Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) And yet again you post a link to some great big long page of information. I also have not stated that the product would change genetics, I can assure you I am not that mislead, badly informed or naive to do so. You really do have some issues with this subject. I would never try to change your point of view, but maybe you should respect other peoples and not claim that in some condescending and some what blinkered way you are correct and everyone else is some kind of mislead alternative quack. If the VMD (Veterinary medicines directorate) have granted a product (such as Kelp Seaweed tablets) a medicines license it is good enough for me. This means that the product has satisfied all criteria efficacy, purity and safety etc( no easy feat I am sure you will agree if you have any understanding of medicines be they herbal or conventional) I am sure you will never change you view and I would not wish you to do so, but I think you are blinkered and down right condescending to anyone who does not agree with you. Maybe some food for thought for you would be 'Animals do not think themselves better' Good luck Edited January 5, 2011 by reload Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tizzi 1 Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Again thanks everyone for your imput, all the info given is much appriciated and very much valid. Reload - what you have siad would very much apply to my bitch, she's a rescue and had a whippet dam (unsure of the sire, but she's only 21")and is black with a smooth/broken coat. Sandymere - I never massage her, only the usual scratch for her pleasure! She dosen't scratch these areas at all, which would also suggest its not mange. I've spoken with vets on the subject and they do say that when its symetrical not patchy its most likely not mange or another parasite, and they also said, as some here pointed out, that its extreamly hard to diagnose hair/skin issue's with dogs. I'm not opposed to using man made treatments at all and if the problem gets worse (it is just a light thinnnig at the moment, there's still a fair covering of hair all over) then she will be down the vets. I am however very much someone that will try and sort a problem natrually rather than administering chemicals first. I will be trying the kelp first as others away from this forum have also reccomended it, especially whippet people, and should it get worse even with added suppliments, she will be down the vets for blood tests and skin scrapes. Thnaks again everyone, Lets keep this nice and calm, everyone has had different experiences and what works for some might not work for others. Anyone else with similar experiences please add Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sandymere 8,263 Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Tizzi hope it settles, just a note herbs are chemicals, just unpurified ones. Thought it was calm Skycat a light look at alternative therapy perhaps the answer lies here http://skepdic.com/regressive.html Reload, No evidence I see just dodging the request animals are subject to placebo, thought you were up on this stuff, if that’s what you mean but what has thinking themselves better to do with any thing other than a straw man. If by expecting evidence for a treatments effectiveness to be available makes me blinkered then good. SO AGAIN where’s your evidence that the drugs you suggest work? Put it up or get Dorwest or any company to do so and I’ll put it to independent view on Bad Science, can’t be fairer than that can I. Just start the thread and I’ll have a field day lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest chook Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Alopecia in lurchers/greyhounds and whippets is verry commen, as yet they are still to find a cause for it, hypothyroidism can be one cause, but if the lurcher has greyhound in its mix, the greyhound typically have a low thyroid concentration anyway below the normal standered for other breeds of dogs, so it can be genraly ruled out, especaly if the only symptom is ballding thighs. There is a studdy on going at one of the royal vet places on greyhounds with bald thigh syndrome. With kelp yes it does work and i will stand with Skycat on this, as it has worked on my lurcher bitch, she suffers from seasional alopecia and has suffered from it for a long time, it starts off with her thighs, flanks and all down the side of her, starts thinning then going bald, then her coat starts thinning out, shes fed a dry food, in summer her coat is fine - middle of winter it starts to thin out, due to stuff happening recent few months, ive not been able to get any kelp, not had the time and have run out, so her coat is now thinning out. sandymere there has been a studdy on the affects of kelp being given to dogs, im still to find the full studdy - but it was stated as being affective and the dogs were see to get a fuller,thicker shiner coat, but you also have to remember never to over dose on kelp, as you can give the dog iodine poisioning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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