Took the Airedale cross pup ferreting

[KittleRox 2,147]

Where did you get this pup? Was it an import?

 

Do you mean the lurcher pup (Airedale cross Saluki/Grey)? If so, then no, she is home bred out of my Redline Airedale: t'was an accident when my big dog got to her, but I'm not sorry now as they are already showing such promise. I've been reading about the attempts to cross Airedales with Staghounds in the USA: I still can't figure out if they are good or not as there seem to be conflicting opinions when I read about them on the Real Working Airedale forum.

 

Dan: have you had anything to do with these crosses? And if so what were they like? One person did tell me that two litters were bred from a track Greyhound which had never been worked: that could be the reason for lack of grit or whatever. Obviously I'm not likely to come across any big or dangerous game for my dogs, though I'll be interested to see what they make of foxes, which both parents love to bits LOL

A question for you Penny,did you have this accidental mating on purpose I myself always thought an Airedale x would be very useful,

I,m thinking you planned it but kept a lid on it because of all the messers who in there expert opinion (lol)thought they would be pxxh

 

Honestly, I didn't intend this mating. I did want to breed a lurcher from my Airedale in a couple of years, but I would never have thought about using Saluki/Grey as I would have been too worried about losing biddability and responsiveness in a Saluki/Airedale lurcher. I had thoughts of using a Deer/Grey as that cross are usually pretty biddable as well as intelligent) The sire to these pups is obedient as long as you are engaging his attention fully, i.e. in a working situation where things are happening, but he's a sod for buggering off on his own if we're just out for a mooch, and goes completely deaf; he doesn't usually go for long, but if I mooched in an area lifting with hares I'd have definitely needed a shock collar to get the sod back to me.

 

Couple that trait with the drive of the Airedale and you can see the potential for a dog which is uncontrollable! I though long and hard about getting Dill jabbed up with the mismating injection to abort a litter, but in the end, had heard too many stories about one deformed pup being born even after having that jab to want to risk it. As it was, I told a few people who had expressed an interest in an Airedale lurcher, and put them completely in the picture, along with the risk of ending up with a deaf-you-out dog that sticks two fingers up every time it gets on the scent of something. :whistling:

 

I can see that these pups will take some controlling when they get to that age where they think they know it all and want to do their own thing, and I also think that had I had this litter 20 years ago I wouldn't have been able to understand them and get them to do what I want. Having had the Saluki types for many years, and as I get on well with Dill, who also takes some controlling when she's hunting hard, I decided to risk it. So far so good, and I shall make sure not to put them into situations which they can control and deaf me out. Their upbringing so far is the same as any other lurcher, but I'm careful not to let them run together or go out on big land where they will be drawn on to find game which runs fast and far. Schuck is already air scenting and can tell the difference between a rabbit above ground and the scent coming from a burrow. When she goes mobile it isn't long before a rabbit gets up, and she's only 5 months old. So watch this space to see whether or not I was right in allowing this litter to be born! It could, in the immortal words of Chalkwarren: become EMOTIONAL :laugh:

Thanks for your great response,I can see where you,re coming from when you say you didn,t fancy saluki blood in the mix along with the airedale and how tractable they would be,they may have turned out a wee bit mad I have a saluki grey of my own and I said I wouldnt have another,I think mainly because being used to collie x,s.

However the mate has a sal/grey bred from the same line which I regularly go daytime mooching/lamping with and this particular dog is rock steady and I must say Im very impressed.I think alot depends on the individual dog and not just what breed is used.

It seems you have a couple of good un,s there,keep us updated ,awe the best

[rocky1 942]

he my airedale/bull/deerhound/grey,10 month 24tts, on these pics 12 month in a couple of days

Edited January 3, 2011 by rocky1

[rocky1 942]

1 more

Edited January 3, 2011 by rocky1

[baldockbanks courser 598]

1 more

I doubt theres any working airdales in england if so what kind of work? what do you think the airdale fetchs to the table work wise in that young red dog mate? If it was a bull deerhound greyhound wouldnt it be better? im not having a go just wonder why peopl use the unusualls when theres proven alternatives.

Thanks

Edited January 3, 2011 by baldockbanks courser

[bradaz2009 9]

he my airedale/bull/deerhound/grey,10 month 24tts, on these pics 12 month in a couple of days

Nice dog pal like the look of him and good on you skycat most people would of bigged them up then got rid of the lot but you are commited and it looks like they are doing you well and at least if they turn out no good you will know you give them the best chance and i am not saying they will turn out sh*t but just saying IF

[rocky1 942]

1 more

I doubt theres any working airdales in england if so what kind of work? what do you think the airdale fetchs to the table work wise in that young red dog mate? If it was a bull deerhound greyhound wouldnt it be better? im not having a go just wonder why peopl use the unusualls when theres proven alternatives.

Thanks

the airedale in my pup comes from the grandparents the great dam was a bull/ airedale and the great sire was 5/8 bull 3/8 grey was gus and the dam was thistle which produce cob all i good say about the airedale is good drive and nose

[rocky1 942]

and at the same time proberly not much airedale in my pup

[dwolf 1]

And yet I've seen people saying that Airedales will kill coyotes if they can get to them: as on a trap line or one that shot and wounded. That said, those coyote dogs must be fantastic to watch in action: they must be real killing machines with speed: surely the result of strict breeding over many, many years.

 

I dont doubt there may be an Airedale that can kill a shot coyote or maybe even one with a drag or a trap on it. That aint the same though and takes all of the coyotes skill away from it.

 

 

Looking good skycat. Great read & cool pics & team.

It will be interesting, like the one gent said, to compare these x's to your other lurchers.

cheers,

 

Well said Dan. Airedales can & do kill cornered or trapped coyotes, & have done it singely, one on one,& good ones can do it w/most dogs near their class too, but coyotes are so feckn fast it blows me away.

do the stags kill them singley? i know it's a bit of a mute question because there is no fight w/out the catch, , you're absolutely spot on there .

it doesn't matter if it can fight it, if it can't catch it, lol. but, speed, exactly what you said, is exactly the reason i got a lurcher to run w/my 2 airedales. i was doing a lot of pred calling at night in blinds & had tons of good runs, but my permissions were so tight & forested it was brutally tough. they only had about 30 - 50 yds to make the hit. so it wasn't a fair spot for the dales, but when i went to more open spots, the coyotes were like smoke, they just were gone.

plus those good stags must be the quintessential wolf hounds really. bred hard for yrs to kill w/blistering speed too., they must be awesome. especially over those distances.

But if some of the stags were so good, why would anyone try to add terrier/non sighthound to the mix?

 

cheers, loved & admired your stag coyote pics on here before.

Edited January 4, 2011 by dwolf

[Ideation 8,216]

I always thought the coyote was the 'master of the running fight' rather than a particularly hard quarry if that makes sense, i'm sure a fair number of breeds could kill one that was trapped or couldnt move off, but few could get up to one and pull one on the run and slow it down enough to engage it.

 

Anyhow, both those pups you kept are very tidy skycat.

[skycat 6,173]

Baldockbanks courser: that is one reason I never got an Airedale in the past, even though I had always been interested in the breed; but when I discovered that Ian Russell had brought working strains of Airedale over from the States I couldn't wait to get one. I'm not saying that an English bred show dog has lost all the working instinct, but it makes a lot more sense to get one from working lines.

 

Rocky: you can see the Airedale in your pup's head even though there's not much Airedale in the breeding now. He looks a good sort: all the best with him.

 

One of the things I'd always heard about the Airedale was that it is a multi talented dog as well as being a great companion and good house dog. Dill's bark is HUGE LOL Here's a little story which might illustrate what most people like about the Airedale: and I was only told this today by an old man I met when out with the dogs. Apparently his family had an Airedale when he was a little kid, so probably well over 70 years ago. Aged 5 or 6, the boy had lost one of his gloves out on a walk, so when this was discovered back home, his father showed the dog the other glove and told the dog to go and find the glove which was lost, the dog disappeared back out where they had walked, and came back about 20 minutes later with the missing glove: and that was just a family pet.

 

There are loads of tales and things about Airedales which show them to be very intelligent dogs which respond well to humans, and they are also very intuitive thinking dogs which are smart enough to figure out loads of things.

 

When I have more time I'll explain how Dill trained me to throw toys for her when she is bored LOL LOL

[rocky1 942]

Baldockbanks courser: that is one reason I never got an Airedale in the past, even though I had always been interested in the breed; but when I discovered that Ian Russell had brought working strains of Airedale over from the States I couldn't wait to get one. I'm not saying that an English bred show dog has lost all the working instinct, but it makes a lot more sense to get one from working lines.

 

Rocky: you can see the Airedale in your pup's head even though there's not much Airedale in the breeding now. He looks a good sort: all the best with him.

 

One of the things I'd always heard about the Airedale was that it is a multi talented dog as well as being a great companion and good house dog. Dill's bark is HUGE LOL Here's a little story which might illustrate what most people like about the Airedale: and I was only told this today by an old man I met when out with the dogs. Apparently his family had an Airedale when he was a little kid, so probably well over 70 years ago. Aged 5 or 6, the boy had lost one of his gloves out on a walk, so when this was discovered back home, his father showed the dog the other glove and told the dog to go and find the glove which was lost, the dog disappeared back out where they had walked, and came back about 20 minutes later with the missing glove: and that was just a family pet.

 

There are loads of tales and things about Airedales which show them to be very intelligent dogs which respond well to humans, and they are also very intuitive thinking dogs which are smart enough to figure out loads of things.

 

When I have more time I'll explain how Dill trained me to throw toys for her when she is bored LOL LOL

thanks skycat

[adeyhawk1970 0]

Penny,the pup looks like its coming on well.She is way in front of Nim who spends most of his time playing around or sleeping on my lap(hes getting far to big for that).He seems to have taken an interest in feather and like to flush the phesants with the terriers.He seems very cautious of the harris hawk however and i thinks he thinks it wants to eat him,the big softy

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

do the stags kill them singley?

 

 

plus those good stags must be the quintessential wolf hounds really. bred hard for yrs to kill w/blistering speed too

 

 

But if some of the stags were so good, why would anyone try to add terrier/non sighthound to the mix?

 

 

The very best of the best will catch and kill a coyote by itself. They can do this because of their speed, power, brains, and grit. The correct mixture of these four things will kill coyotes. These dogs are extremely fast and powerful. They combine that with their technique and their courage and they overwhelm a coyote and there isnt much of a fight. If they couldnt do this they couldnt catch and kill a coyote. These dogs have been bred hard for many years but as of late I am seeing a trend towards speed alone and it's sad cuz they fast dogs for the most part are cowards that will trip and ass fight but are not brave enough to go to the business end with strength and confidence. They suck if you ask me and I wont feed one. Those that attempt to breed airedale and other types like that into the staghounds are grasping at straws. They have never seen the real deal and they think that adding this so called tough terrier to them greyhoundy speed demons will make them better but in the end they are slower and most of the time not ever as tough. They dont have the size, speed and power to overwhelm a coyote. I cant say that I would never try something like this cuz I have but it was very obvious at a very young age that these dogs were not the same as my others. My coyote dogs walk around the yard lazily with a confidence that cannot really be explained. Other dogs know it to cuz they stay away from them. Its very odd but they dont except these "lurcher" or hounds into their little society. I know I sound crazy here and I thought the fella who gave me my dogs was crazy too when he was saying it but he wasnt. He was right about 99% of the stuff he told me. There is something about these old school "wolf dogs" that is unlike any lurcher or crossbred or whatever that I have ever seen.

 

I really dont like ruining skycat's thread.

[skycat 6,173]

Dan: you are not ruining the thread at all: it is just evolving, like all good discussions!

 

I know what you are saying about your dogs: I was fortunate enough to have what I call a special dog in a litter of lurchers I once bred: her dam was a good fox killer, but this one had that aura of power, a dark side which made her apart from the rest: she was a killer through and through and would kill another dog if it looked at her wrong: she commanded respect, and never got aggressive with another dog unless it bothered her. She killed her first fox at 9 months old and never looked back, often taking a real hiding from big foxes, but never quitting. She wasn't a big lurcher, but there was this thing in her which was impressive. The only other dog I've seen it in was a big male lurcher: I guess you could call them psychopaths really: they didn't feel pain and would stop at nothing to kill their prey: this big dog would definitely have taken coyote, he was an evil sod at the best of times when it came to any other animal: unfortunately in this small domesticated island he had to be put down before he actually killed someone's pet dog: a real shame as he would have done very well in a different environment. A softy with humans though and a smart dog: he just had that extra gene which they say makes for a psychopath!

[dwolf 1]

do the stags kill them singley?

 

 

plus those good stags must be the quintessential wolf hounds really. bred hard for yrs to kill w/blistering speed too

 

 

But if some of the stags were so good, why would anyone try to add terrier/non sighthound to the mix?

 

 

The very best of the best will catch and kill a coyote by itself. They can do this because of their speed, power, brains, and grit. The correct mixture of these four things will kill coyotes. These dogs are extremely fast and powerful. They combine that with their technique and their courage and they overwhelm a coyote and there isnt much of a fight. If they couldnt do this they couldnt catch and kill a coyote. These dogs have been bred hard for many years but as of late I am seeing a trend towards speed alone and it's sad cuz they fast dogs for the most part are cowards that will trip and ass fight but are not brave enough to go to the business end with strength and confidence. They suck if you ask me and I wont feed one. Those that attempt to breed airedale and other types like that into the staghounds are grasping at straws. They have never seen the real deal and they think that adding this so called tough terrier to them greyhoundy speed demons will make them better but in the end they are slower and most of the time not ever as tough. They dont have the size, speed and power to overwhelm a coyote. I cant say that I would never try something like this cuz I have but it was very obvious at a very young age that these dogs were not the same as my others. My coyote dogs walk around the yard lazily with a confidence that cannot really be explained. Other dogs know it to cuz they stay away from them. Its very odd but they dont except these "lurcher" or hounds into their little society. I know I sound crazy here and I thought the fella who gave me my dogs was crazy too when he was saying it but he wasnt. He was right about 99% of the stuff he told me. There is something about these old school "wolf dogs" that is unlike any lurcher or crossbred or whatever that I have ever seen.

 

I really dont like ruining skycat's thread.

 

Nice one Dan. Thanks for a good read. Would love to see your dogs someday.

Seen some nice stags when i ived out west, but at the time I was totally into bird hunting w/my chessie & flyfishing every waking hour i wasn't powder skiing... Wished I would've run w/more of them when i was out in the big wide open. Those distances invlved in those courses are amazing.

I don't think you are ruining the thread, sorry to skycat if so. My bad. She's obviously more interested in the x as a lurcher, not coyote dog. & it's a tribute to all real longdogs that an airedale or pit x just slows them down & doesn't add much to the table to a true coyote dog, particularly kill power, lol. Good on them.

Seeing coyotes run & the ones back east probably aren't as fast as yours either, & having run/or seen runs on a lot of the fastest game available, i would say the coyote is the supreme challenge to any coursing dog, up there w/jack rabbits & the european hare, but w/monster teeth & jaws. Do your dogs ever run jack rabbits or just coyotes?

But that's cool as hell, how confident they are. My one airedale is like that, he tries to hump every dog he sees & they go ballistic & he just dodges the strike w/tail wagging like crazy, right back into their snarling face & still tries to stick it in, lol.

Sorry, maybe i should start another thread, but i know you have some kick as dogs, just hoping to learn.

How many of those coyote dogs at Loomis are the real deal in your estimation? How many of them should be bred?

cheers & thanks.