Pitbull lurchers

[Guest MOLLY]

Does it sound correct to say that it is impossible to state 100% that a dog was a Pitbull once it is dead (ie at Post Mortem) ?? I ask because DNA testing alone does not prove a dog is a Pitbull, there are numerous other factors they must study, like gait and temperament.

 

 

I would have thought that the average Bull X owner was less likely to get raided than your average Scally, mostly because their dogs aren't paraded around council estates ......... or are they?

 

Good luck to all who need it, difficult times ahead.

I think most people are concerned with live dna testing if their dog was seized? Surely only post morten testing would have to be done if the dog had had to have been been pts for whatever reason?

 

This thread was started because just as bad as parading their dogs in the street they are announcing for all concerned on the internet they may have a dog listed under the DDA

 

I am aware most people are just debating another rediculous side to the DDA in this thread, as it will not effect most people on this forum

MOLL.

[Eggy 0]

Thats all aload of rubish about the dna testing , you cannot tel one dog breed from another from dna (beleive me !)

Excuse the ignorance, but why should we believe you?

 

 

 

Am not blindly jumping to the lad's defence here, but, he does know what's what with regard to DNA testing and the ability to prove (or inability in this case) that a dog was a banned breed.

 

We are very lucky in the people we have met, a very helpful genuine man.

 

To the PhD person........

 

Does it sound correct to say that it is impossible to state 100% that a dog was a Pitbull once it is dead (ie at Post Mortem) ?? I ask because DNA testing alone does not prove a dog is a Pitbull, there are numerous other factors they must study, like gait and temperament.

 

 

I would have thought that the average Bull X owner was less likely to get raided than your average Scally, mostly because their dogs aren't paraded around council estates ......... or are they?

 

Good luck to all who need it, difficult times ahead.

[Eggy 0]

It's gonna be very simple to establish (by DNA (PCR)) methods)) whether it is a genuine pitt (orr cross) or not if you want to!! To add to the insult...it can be done on a hair follicel or mouth swab FROM A LIVE DOG (no more comments)!!! So yes it's possably very simple to know whether yer (live) dog contains genuine pitt DNA traces or not (if a kit is gonna be available??)...................I guess it will be

[DIGGIT 6]

Thats all aload of rubish about the dna testing , you cannot tel one dog breed from another from dna (beleive me !)

Excuse the ignorance, but why should we believe you?

 

The law relates to any 'pit bull type' dog - so I have to wonder why ANYONE would want a lurcher that resembles a pit bull type?

because some of us don't want a lurcher that resembles a collie :whistle: , and more to the point there used for a job, a job that a collie can not do

[cymruguy69 5]

Thats all aload of rubish about the dna testing , you cannot tel one dog breed from another from dna (beleive me !)

Excuse the ignorance, but why should we believe you?

 

The law relates to any 'pit bull type' dog - so I have to wonder why ANYONE would want a lurcher that resembles a pit bull type?

because some of us don't want a lurcher that resembles a collie :whistle: , and more to the point there used for a job, a job that a collie can not do

 

By the way DIGGIT the job your realating to is also banned!!

 

And also Id like to state that a collie lurcher can do the job that your suggesting if trained properly!!

 

And I haven't got to worry that if my dog get's out its not going to kill an innocent child it will probably lick them to death instead!!

[apollo 9]

"""and more to the point there used for a job, a job that a collie can not do """

 

My point exactly,untill you have used them and seen what they will go through (litterally) for you you cant comment they are not a status object like their pure breed parents can be but they are much more rugged than your collies with big heads and big brains and even bigger hearts. IMHO Eddie............

 

"""And I haven't got to worry that if my dog get's out its not going to kill an innocent child it will probably lick them to death instead!!"""

 

Dont tempt fate mate, the worst bite most people will come across in their life is that of a farm collie

Edited January 9, 2007 by apollo

[cymruguy69 5]

"""and more to the point there used for a job, a job that a collie can not do """

 

My point exactly,untill you have used them and seen what they will go through (litterally) for you you cant comment they are not a status object like their pure breed parents can be but they are much more rugged than your collies with big heads and big brains and even bigger hearts. IMHO Eddie............

 

"""And I haven't got to worry that if my dog get's out its not going to kill an innocent child it will probably lick them to death instead!!"""

 

Dont tempt fate mate, the worst bite most people will come across in their life is that of a farm collie

 

I'm not saying a Pitbull cross can do a job better or worse as Iv'e seen them work and know how good their hearts are!!

 

I'm just annoyed a little at the way some people think. People can't find valid arguments so they take it out on people with collie crosses!!!

 

I'l take back what I said about the pits killing!! I'm not being funny but we should be sticking together as a dog and hunting community!! My Mam and step dad have bred staffies for years and Iv'e seen full grown men cross the road in fear of them!!

 

IMHO At the end of the day it's the owner that raises the dog not the dog itself!!!

 

Sorry to all if I offended on my comment on a pit killing!!

[cymruguy69 5]

The world is big enough for ALL crosses.

 

[DIGGIT 6]

Thats all aload of rubish about the dna testing , you cannot tel one dog breed from another from dna (beleive me !)

Excuse the ignorance, but why should we believe you?

 

The law relates to any 'pit bull type' dog - so I have to wonder why ANYONE would want a lurcher that resembles a pit bull type?

because some of us don't want a lurcher that resembles a collie :whistle: , and more to the point there used for a job, a job that a collie can not do

 

By the way DIGGIT the job your realating to is also banned!!

 

And also Id like to state that a collie lurcher can do the job that your suggesting if trained properly!!

 

And I haven't got to worry that if my dog get's out its not going to kill an innocent child it will probably lick them to death instead!!

i dont have to worry if my dog gets out

 

 

this my 5year old holding a 3 day bull x pup, the bitch is sat 1 foot away from my girl, now that bitch didunt bat an eyelid at here, its not the dogs that are a prob it the fuckers holding the leeds, just like saying guns are gangerous, there only gangerous in the hands of dick heads.

[cymruguy69 5]

Thats all aload of rubish about the dna testing , you cannot tel one dog breed from another from dna (beleive me !)

Excuse the ignorance, but why should we believe you?

 

The law relates to any 'pit bull type' dog - so I have to wonder why ANYONE would want a lurcher that resembles a pit bull type?

because some of us don't want a lurcher that resembles a collie :whistle: , and more to the point there used for a job, a job that a collie can not do

 

By the way DIGGIT the job your realating to is also banned!!

 

And also Id like to state that a collie lurcher can do the job that your suggesting if trained properly!!

 

And I haven't got to worry that if my dog get's out its not going to kill an innocent child it will probably lick them to death instead!!

i dont have to worry if my dog gets out

 

 

 

this my 5year old holding a 3 day bull x pup, the bitch is sat 1 foot away from my girl, now that bitch didunt bat an eyelid at here, its not the dogs that are a prob it the fuckers holding the leeds, just like saying guns are gangerous, there only gangerous in the hands of dick heads

 

 

Well said mate like I said earlier I take back what I said about pits killing and it is the people holding the lead that is to blame!!!

 

No hard feelings??

Edited January 9, 2007 by cymruguy69

[ginge2k6 0]

do you know breed of dog bites the most, labradors! believe it or not, it is true, you think of how YORKSHIRE TERRIERS and other types like that that bite more often than bull breeds, its the deed not the breed.

[DIGGIT 6]

Here is some history for you

 

These dogs, part Bulldog and part Terrier, was referred to as "Bull and Terriers", and even Bull Terriers (not to be confused with the modern Bull Terrier), before they were refined and seperatet as different breeds.

The Terrier is not a Molosser, that is correct, but the Terrier breeds are known to be untirable workers, very fast and quick and in possession of a temperament which made them the ideal cross to the Bulldog of old times, to produce an excellent fighting dog.

Through the Bulldog these "Bull and Terrier" breeds belongs to the Molosser family, and some of these breeds are very close to the Bulldog of old and have few recemblences with the Terriers. I would go so far that I would say that some Bull and Terriers even have more traits common with the bulldog of old, than the modern English Bulldog has.

These "Bull and Terrier" breeds were created to fight, like it or not, that is their history. When bullbaiting was outlawed in England in 1835, the erea of dog-fighting began, and with it, the "Bull and Terriers" evolved. These newly created breeds would fight anything that man put in the pit with them. The Bull and Terriers were designed to this kind of work but there is so much more to these breeds than fighting, and they have often got a undeserved bad reputation.

 

 

 

As a pit-dog only the Bulldogs possessed the requisite courage but they lacked the necessary agility. Various Bulldog crosses were tried, mainly with terriers, until eventually a specific breed of bull terriers was produced which was fast, strong and utterly game.

The breed most often referred to as the Terrier part of the "Bull and Terrier" breeds is the now extinct White English Terrier, a breed close related to the "Black and tan terrier", now known as Manchester Terrier. The White English Terrier is described as almost identical to the "Black and tan Terrier" exept for the colour, which at the White English Terrier should be shiny white. Red or brown spots did however occur, especially behind the ears and on the neck and throat. These spots were not desired and breeders often cut the spots off while the dogs still was young. The scars were usally hidden behing a white collar around the dogs neck.

Deafness was not unknown in speciments of the White English Terrier.

 

 

 

The White English Terrier did certainly play a important role in th creation and development of the "Bull and Terriers", but other Terriers, and especially the Fox Terrier, may also have contributed to the development of these breeds. What seems to be forgotten by time is that the Bulldogs also were crossed with the Greyhound and the Whippet, and although not as important role as the Terriers in the development of the "Bull and Terriers", some blood from these Greyhounds and Whippets float in todays "Bull and Terrier" breeds.

I know that many dog-men consider their breed as the true and survived old english bulldog. They claim that confusion with the "Bull Terrier" had led to the misunderstanding that the other "Bull and Terrier" breeds also have the Terrier as one of the ancestors. They further claim that their breeds does not contain any Terrier blood at all, but is true Bulldog all the way. I agree on the Bulldog part, but a Bulldog with a shot of Terrier blood in their veins. We can do a lot to improve our breeds, but one thing is sure, we can not change the history, either we like the history of our chosen breed or not.

 

 

 

 

These early fighting dogs were of all sorts and shapes, size and colours since their breeding was very promiscuous. By 1860 they more or less fell into one of two groups, from one of which the English Bull Terrier was developed and from the other the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Both breeds were initially game, since nobody would keep a bull terrier which was not, but it did not take a long time before the English Bull Terrier was bred for show, and looks were improved at the expence of courage. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier continued to be bred for the pit.

Much can be said and written about the old pit-fights of these "Bull and Terrier" dogs and the surviving stories could fill a thick book. I will not write any more about the dog-fighting at this page but if you are interested in reading about these stories I would like to recommend to you the excellent book "History of Fighting Dogs" by Dr. Dieter Fleig.

 

 

 

 

As mentioned earlier at this page these breeds often got an undeserved bad reputation. Often the breed's history as a fighting dog is used against them and some of these breeds are banned and outlawed in several countries, not so much because incidents and accidences, but more because the breed's history. The "Bull and Terrier" breeds got a history full of fighting scars, that is correct, but it is not the only dogs with sceletons in their closet.

Who would dream to ban the English Bulldog because of their bloody fighting past, or the hounds used to hunt and attack slaves. Who would ever ban the German breeds, the German Shepherd Dog, the Doberman and the Rottweiler, which the nazists did use in the consentration camps, and often the dogs were let loose on the prisoners. Many prisoners was killed this way, but we would never ban the German Shepherd Dog because it was a act designed by humans, and so were the pit-fights of old times. The most cruel and blodthirsty animal of all is ourselves, the humans, who designs and set up these fights.

Properly raised these breeds are not more dangerous than any other breed. They are athletic and powerful and incredible strong, but if human aggressive, it is always the owner to blame. These breeds are in fact very human friendly and seek contact with all people, and it can be the best friend to your children. Remember that these dogs would not be allowed to be human aggressive. The dogs had to be handled in the pit and any dog that did show agressiveness against man were useless in the fighting pit.

 

Sir Walter Scott (Scottish novelist, poet & historian, 1771-1832) once wrote ; "The cleverest dog I ever had, was what is called a bulldog terrier". Owners of the Bull n'Terrier breeds of today will easily confirm that this is the case.

[mole catcher 1]

[

because some of us don't want a lurcher that resembles a collie :whistle: , and more to the point there used for a job, a job that a collie can not do

 

This quote from diggit has me puzzled? a job that a collie cant do?

Makes me wonder if the fella that sold me my collie cross was telling me a lie, i was told it was a 3/4grey xcollie and with what diggit has just said the guy must have been telling me fibs, as my little fluff ball does and has been doing the job for me.

How many bull cross owners can honestly say that there dog has brought down a fully mature red deer hind single handed in the daylight hours?

Well mine has,pre ban of course and i have a collie cross to boot

so lets stop all this ego mines harder than yours shit and look at the implications of what has happened.

 

young girl dead, dog destroyed, loads of bad press and we all know how once the press have hold of a story it gets inflated. All we have to do now is stand back and watch the blair witch project go about gaining those much loved browney points befor he jumps from his sinking ship known as the labour party.

 

Where does it leave all us dog owners? Due to the minoritys actions, all of us, the majority of responceble dog owners now have to wait and see what bul*@!t legislation is rushed in to appease the masses disgust that such a thing has happened.

 

Breed of dogs fault or dog owners fault? as they say on all good game shows, "" you the audiance must now decide""

Edited January 9, 2007 by mole catcher

[DIGGIT 6]

[

because some of us don't want a lurcher that resembles a collie :whistle: , and more to the point there used for a job, a job that a collie can not do

 

This quote from diggit has me puzzled? a job that a collie cant do?

Makes me wonder if the fella that sold me my collie cross was telling me a lie, i was told it was a 3/4grey xcollie and with what diggit has just said the guy must have been telling me fibs, as my little fluff ball does and has been doing the job for me.

How many bull cross owners can honestly say that there dog has brought down a fully mature red deer hind single handed in the daylight hours?

Well mine has,pre ban of course and i have a collie cross to boot

so lets stop all this ego mines harder than yours shit and look at the implications of what has happened.

 

young girl dead, dog destroyed, loads of bad press and we all know how once the press have hold of a story it gets inflated. All we have to do now is stand back and watch the blair witch project go about gaining those much loved browney points befor he jumps from his sinking ship known as the labour party.

 

Where does it leave all us dog owners? Due to the minoritys actions, all of us, the majority of responceble dog owners now have to wait and see what bul*@!t legislation is rushed in to appease the masses disgust that such a thing has happened.

 

Breed of dogs fault or dog owners fault? as they say on all good game shows, "" you the audiance must now deside""

its got nothing to do with ego mate its just have the right tools for the job in hand and im not talking aboult deer but im not going in to that with you on this site all rest of you for that matter.

 

if your dog is pulling down deer and he is doing what you want it to do im happy for you, you can go for years looking for a dog like that, but the breed is just not my cup of tea but each man to there own.

[DIGGIT 6]

THIS IS A QUOTE OUT OF FRANK SHERARDOWN'S

BOOK THE LURCHER tranining and hunting.

 

Should you decide that the bullx is the only one for you ,then take heart for you are only carrying on the work of Lord Orford who many years ago introduced the bull blood of the day into the greyhound.

This was in order to impart a bit of spirit into the hounds and is to have had good effect, lasting until the present day some 200 years later.

It's also reputed to be the reason why a good many greyhounds have a brindle coat.

So just bear in mind that a little bull blood goes a dickens of a long way.

 

so who knows youre dog may still have bull blood running through its veins from the greyhound side of youre lurcher, i know this cross has been used on alot of track dogs even today there are still proffesional open raceing dogs with bull blood running through there veins.

this doesnt just apply to lurchers in many cases the terriers that we use today for working i.e. the jack russell, the patterdale terrier, and other breeds like this have all been introduced to bull blood at some point.