Show me you merles please

[Guest crobinc840]

For some reason it looks like merle is viewed as a show pony? Why would a colour pattern make it less than any other dog in the litter that was not merle? No one seemed to mind the brindle color pictures.

 

My link

 

I hope you're not being a dog colour racist

[comanche 2,875]

Reading this thread you realise some folk just like merle dogs, or like their merle dog anyhow, for others look really is the MOST important thing. Not knocking a pretty dog, but being happy with the pretty dog you end up with is one thing and breeding to get a 'pretty dog' or litter of 'pretty dogs'. . . . .

 

I was thinking the same here. All this Looks is for showing, yes it's nice to have a Looker, and I will comment on a nice type of dog. But it's not at all important to me. Looks wont fill the pot, a looker may get you a few rosettes and a day out at the game fair.

 

There are people who show and people who work their dogs. Is there both?

 

Valid question . Thing is ,Merle colouration is usually linked to having collie in the make -up of the lurcher . Collie crosses are not that successfull as show dogs _a bit too mongrelly possibly when compared withan elegant deerhound cross or a muscled-up B*ll cross. So generally merle type- or any collie based- dogs are probably more than likely to be owned by people who are into serious lurcher -work . Shall I duck now !

 

Edited December 20, 2010 by comanche

[artic 595]

Reading this thread you realise some folk just like merle dogs, or like their merle dog anyhow, for others look really is the MOST important thing. Not knocking a pretty dog, but being happy with the pretty dog you end up with is one thing and breeding to get a 'pretty dog' or litter of 'pretty dogs'. . . . .

 

I was thinking the same here. All this Looks is for showing, yes it's nice to have a Looker, and I will comment on a nice type of dog. But it's not at all important to me. Looks wont fill the pot, a looker may get you a few rosettes and a day out at the game fair.

 

There are people who show and people who work their dogs. Is there both?

 

Valid question . Thing is ,Merle colouration is usually linked to having collie in the make -up of the lurcher . Collie crosses are not that successfull as show dogs _a bit too mongrelly possibly when compared withan elegant deerhound cross or a muscled-up B*ll cross. So generally merle type- or any collie based- dogs are probably more than likely to be owned by people who are into serious lurcher -work .

 

 

[Guest crobinc840]

this is my mearl bitch winning puppy championship <img src="http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif">

 

Do both of her eyes have geometric splits? Is she also a brindle? She's very pretty.

 

only 1 eye is wall eyed she is red mearl

one eye for lamping one eye for daytime,lol,and you cant hide a mearl so they dont get knicked as much,ps how meny do you owen crobin????

I have the father which is Border Collie and the pup. The mother is brindle so I guess I like patterns, doesn't mean that's all I look at though.

[hogdog 61]

For some reason it looks like merle is viewed as a show pony? Why would a colour pattern make it less than any other dog in the litter that was not merle? No one seemed to mind the brindle color pictures.

 

My link

 

I hope you're not being a dog colour racist

 

From the American Dog Breeders association website...

 

Health issues associated with the merle allele

 

The (M) allele is an excellent example of pleiotropy, the phenomenon where a single allele can cause distinct and seeming unrelated physical effects. Even in the heterozygous (Mm) dog the (M) allele is associated with deafness, eye defects, and problems with the dogs immune system. This can be explained by understanding a little bit about the early fetal development of the dog.

 

The process of coloration and color pattern in dogs begins with embryonic development. The specific cells that become the pigment producing cells come entirely from the same area of the embryo (neuronal crest) that the cells of the nervous system comes from. It stands to reason, that if you have defects in genes associated with color genetics you can have nervous system defects because both cells are derived from the same neuronal crest. This can explain why it is likely that certain dilute or patterned dogs, such as extreme piebalds, albinos, etc. as well as those that have the merle allele are prone to sensory, neurological and /or immunological problems. These defects have been observed and researched in other dog breeds (i.e. Australian Shepherds, Great Danes, Shetland Sheepdogs) that also carry these dilution alleles including the merle allele.

 

From this research it has been determined that the merle allele when expressed in the homozygous state (MM) is highly correlated to sensory, neurological and immune system defects in dogs. Some include distortion of the eye’s appearance, lack of the reflective substance (tapetum lucidum) that lines the back of the dogs eye. Dogs that lack this substance have night blindness and other visual problems. Other eye problems have been identified with the merle allele includes, small eyeballs, with a prominent third eyelids, and a physical cleft in the iris of the eye. Abnormalities of the eyes are a key indicator of other neurological defects. Deafness or a reduction in hearing has also been identified, as the merle color locus exerts effects on ear development. Excessive white or dilution in a dog of any color can be a warning sign of hearing problems. From talking to breeders who’s lines contain merle dogs, they relate that they are very aware of the potential health problems (sometimes being lethal to the affected pups).

[Ideation 8,216]

Reading this thread you realise some folk just like merle dogs, or like their merle dog anyhow, for others look really is the MOST important thing. Not knocking a pretty dog, but being happy with the pretty dog you end up with is one thing and breeding to get a 'pretty dog' or litter of 'pretty dogs'. . . . .

 

I don't think anyone here thinks that looks are the most important thing otherwise we would be on a different site. I am a fan of the colour and find it interesting but that was not the first thing I thought of when chosing my puppy or having a litter. I hope there is a way to breed a good looking dog that is functional otherwise there will be a seperation in Lurchers that has happened in other breeds "looks" and "workability". Looking at the pictures on here I am happy to see it is possible to have both.

 

 

 

I dont want an argument but read what you just wrote again. . . . "I hope there is a way to breed a good looking dog that is functional otherwise there will be a seperation in lurchers that has happened in other breeds' - so what your saying is that in order to stop lurchers being bred for the wrong reasons and to conserve working ability we all need to concentrate on producing pretty working dogs, so that show and pet breeders can breed for looks and we can still have decent workers?. The 'seperation' in lurchers or any working breeds between looks/function does not come from having ugly or at least normal looking lurchers, it comes from muppets who 'fancy' the idea of a 'working type' who dont work their dogs and then breed for colors and looks, hoping a certain percentage of the litter will be 'cryptic brindle merles' or that their eyes will have 'geometric splits' etc.

[Ideation 8,216]

Reading this thread you realise some folk just like merle dogs, or like their merle dog anyhow, for others look really is the MOST important thing. Not knocking a pretty dog, but being happy with the pretty dog you end up with is one thing and breeding to get a 'pretty dog' or litter of 'pretty dogs'. . . . .

 

I was thinking the same here. All this Looks is for showing, yes it's nice to have a Looker, and I will comment on a nice type of dog. But it's not at all important to me. Looks wont fill the pot, a looker may get you a few rosettes and a day out at the game fair.

 

There are people who show and people who work their dogs. Is there both?

 

Valid question . Thing is ,Merle colouration is usually linked to having collie in the make -up of the lurcher . Collie crosses are not that successfull as show dogs _a bit too mongrelly possibly when compared withan elegant deerhound cross or a muscled-up B*ll cross. So generally merle type- or any collie based- dogs are probably more than likely to be owned by people who are into serious lurcher -work . Shall I duck now !

 

 

 

 

Aye. . . . . or folk who suck at both shows and working their dogs

[comanche 2,875]

Reading this thread you realise some folk just like merle dogs, or like their merle dog anyhow, for others look really is the MOST important thing. Not knocking a pretty dog, but being happy with the pretty dog you end up with is one thing and breeding to get a 'pretty dog' or litter of 'pretty dogs'. . . . .

 

I was thinking the same here. All this Looks is for showing, yes it's nice to have a Looker, and I will comment on a nice type of dog. But it's not at all important to me. Looks wont fill the pot, a looker may get you a few rosettes and a day out at the game fair.

 

There are people who show and people who work their dogs. Is there both?

 

Valid question . Thing is ,Merle colouration is usually linked to having collie in the make -up of the lurcher . Collie crosses are not that successfull as show dogs _a bit too mongrelly possibly when compared withan elegant deerhound cross or a muscled-up B*ll cross. So generally merle type- or any collie based- dogs are probably more than likely to be owned by people who are into serious lurcher -work . Shall I duck now !

 

 

 

 

Aye. . . . . or folk who suck at both shows and working their dogs

Ha you swine ! I knew posting anything in the lurcher section was akin to sticking one's head over the parapet and saying "Aim Here!".

Edited December 20, 2010 by comanche

[johnny boy68 11,725]

I was told this is a merle(red)?????????????????Won't see her in a show ring though

[artic 595]

Reading this thread you realise some folk just like merle dogs, or like their merle dog anyhow, for others look really is the MOST important thing. Not knocking a pretty dog, but being happy with the pretty dog you end up with is one thing and breeding to get a 'pretty dog' or litter of 'pretty dogs'. . . . .

 

I don't think anyone here thinks that looks are the most important thing otherwise we would be on a different site. I am a fan of the colour and find it interesting but that was not the first thing I thought of when chosing my puppy or having a litter. I hope there is a way to breed a good looking dog that is functional otherwise there will be a seperation in Lurchers that has happened in other breeds "looks" and "workability". Looking at the pictures on here I am happy to see it is possible to have both.

 

 

 

I dont want an argument but read what you just wrote again. . . . "I hope there is a way to breed a good looking dog that is functional otherwise there will be a seperation in lurchers that has happened in other breeds' - so what your saying is that in order to stop lurchers being bred for the wrong reasons and to conserve working ability we all need to concentrate on producing pretty working dogs, so that show and pet breeders can breed for looks and we can still have decent workers?. The 'seperation' in lurchers or any working breeds between looks/function does not come from having ugly or at least normal looking lurchers, it comes from muppets who 'fancy' the idea of a 'working type' who dont work their dogs and then breed for colors and looks, hoping a certain percentage of the litter will be 'cryptic brindle merles' or that their eyes will have 'geometric splits' etc.

 

Hmm, well now you've mentioned it..... How much do these "Merle coloured" ones go for?

 

I don' t want to work the thing, however it has to look the bollox, and then I'll just show it, and I might breed from it in a year or two to make some money.

[Guest crobinc840]

Reading this thread you realise some folk just like merle dogs, or like their merle dog anyhow, for others look really is the MOST important thing. Not knocking a pretty dog, but being happy with the pretty dog you end up with is one thing and breeding to get a 'pretty dog' or litter of 'pretty dogs'. . . . .

 

I don't think anyone here thinks that looks are the most important thing otherwise we would be on a different site. I am a fan of the colour and find it interesting but that was not the first thing I thought of when chosing my puppy or having a litter. I hope there is a way to breed a good looking dog that is functional otherwise there will be a seperation in Lurchers that has happened in other breeds "looks" and "workability". Looking at the pictures on here I am happy to see it is possible to have both.

 

 

 

I dont want an argument but read what you just wrote again. . . . "I hope there is a way to breed a good looking dog that is functional otherwise there will be a seperation in lurchers that has happened in other breeds' - so what your saying is that in order to stop lurchers being bred for the wrong reasons and to conserve working ability we all need to concentrate on producing pretty working dogs, so that show and pet breeders can breed for looks and we can still have decent workers?. The 'seperation' in lurchers or any working breeds between looks/function does not come from having ugly or at least normal looking lurchers, it comes from muppets who 'fancy' the idea of a 'working type' who dont work their dogs and then breed for colors and looks, hoping a certain percentage of the litter will be 'cryptic brindle merles' or that their eyes will have 'geometric splits' etc.

 

I'm saying the muppets that you are speaking about are not on here but yes there are people that breed for looks and they show them. Look at the difference between working German Shepards and show ones. I am hoping people don't try to seperate lurchers by saying because it looks good it must not be a worker. I am interested in genetics as you have pointed it out but in no way does it cause me to ruin a breed. As hogdog has pointed out merle can cause problems especially if doubled. If I was interested in making pretty money makers I could have used my merle Astra Border Colllie to breed back into red Astra lines. I wanted a stronger genetic base that I could hunt with. It was for me only. It would be nice if people could just show pictures of their dogs without being put down for the colour. Can't we all just get along?

[Paid 935]

I agree with a lot of what Ideation just said, but also do like the merle colouring, mine wouldnt win a show I'm fairly certain of that, the fugly hairy mongrel :-) he does work very well for me though, and has filled a few chest freezers in his 5 years.

[Ideation 8,216]

I was told this is a merle(red)?????????????????Won't see her in a show ring though

 

 

Damn show pony! No place on a working mans working dog site, shame on you!

[johnny boy68 11,725]

I was told this is a merle(red)?????????????????Won't see her in a show ring though

 

 

Damn show pony! No place on a working mans working dog site, shame on you!

But is she a merle?I personally wouldn't give a monkeys if she was pink with green spots aslong has she carries on doing what she does

[Ideation 8,216]

Reading this thread you realise some folk just like merle dogs, or like their merle dog anyhow, for others look really is the MOST important thing. Not knocking a pretty dog, but being happy with the pretty dog you end up with is one thing and breeding to get a 'pretty dog' or litter of 'pretty dogs'. . . . .

 

I don't think anyone here thinks that looks are the most important thing otherwise we would be on a different site. I am a fan of the colour and find it interesting but that was not the first thing I thought of when chosing my puppy or having a litter. I hope there is a way to breed a good looking dog that is functional otherwise there will be a seperation in Lurchers that has happened in other breeds "looks" and "workability". Looking at the pictures on here I am happy to see it is possible to have both.

 

 

 

I dont want an argument but read what you just wrote again. . . . "I hope there is a way to breed a good looking dog that is functional otherwise there will be a seperation in lurchers that has happened in other breeds' - so what your saying is that in order to stop lurchers being bred for the wrong reasons and to conserve working ability we all need to concentrate on producing pretty working dogs, so that show and pet breeders can breed for looks and we can still have decent workers?. The 'seperation' in lurchers or any working breeds between looks/function does not come from having ugly or at least normal looking lurchers, it comes from muppets who 'fancy' the idea of a 'working type' who dont work their dogs and then breed for colors and looks, hoping a certain percentage of the litter will be 'cryptic brindle merles' or that their eyes will have 'geometric splits' etc.

 

I'm saying the muppets that you are speaking about are not on here but yes there are people that breed for looks and they show them. Look at the difference between working German Shepards and show ones. I am hoping people don't try to seperate lurchers by saying because it looks good it must not be a worker. I am interested in genetics as you have pointed it out but in no way does it cause me to ruin a breed. As hogdog has pointed out merle can cause problems especially if doubled. If I was interested in making pretty money makers I could have used my merle Astra Border Colllie to breed back into red Astra lines. I wanted a stronger genetic base that I could hunt with. It was for me only. It would be nice if people could just show pictures of their dogs without being put down for the colour. Can't we all just get along?

 

"The muppets that you are speaking of are not on here'. . . . . . . . riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

 

I wasn't putting down the dogs for the color, there are plenty of very fine looking workers on this thread (paid - that dog of yours looks a good type, racy but strong), i was just highlighting the absurdity of breeding a working animal with anything else in mind than its ability to perform the task required (obviously including temperament etc as well). Aye i'm a sucker for a merle as well and if i had a few dogs to choose from, all equally as good i may well go for the merle, but i wouldnt be trying to breed merles on purpose or in fact breeding ANY lurchers just for the sake of it, when there are so many decent pups wasted. Apart from personal desire (and hey that a fair motivator i guess) what did the dam and sire of your pups achieve in order to justify taking a litter? And at what age? And are there the pups you ALREADY have a stud lined up for? No digs just dont get it