In "MY" opinion, bad shooting

[zini 1,939]

Fair play Jasper buddy,

 

Not everyone is able or willing to shoot young ums buddy.

 

You don't need to change your own personal views or morals for other people mate.

 

No worries about your post mate as I said I was probably not giving the bloke a full chance in the first place.

 

I don't like it when people on YouTube send crap to me like that so I should learn to think better and longer before I send it to others.

 

No hard feeling pal and thank you for bringing me down a peg or 2 I needed it pal and I will learn from it in the future.

 

Si

[pianoman 3,587]

Gentlemen..

 

Isn't there a bit of argument for it's own sake taking place here? Overall, I find nothing to fault the man's shooting that I haven't done myself before, when shooting corvids and pidgeon fom high in the trees. These were humanely effective shots from what I saw here. If death was not absolutely instant, it followed very soon after the shot hit. There was one sequence where one crow required a second shot to despatch it; who hasn't had to do that before?

 

Overall, he shot as he found the opportunity and shot well. And in conclusion...

 

"Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone"

 

Simon

[zini 1,939]

LOL Simon ,

 

"Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone"

 

You a vicar or priest buddy?

 

Its Sunday mate shouldn’t you be in church LOL?

 

True what you said though pal .

 

Si

[pianoman 3,587]

Cheers Si.

 

Hmm It is sunday isn't it! Ought to attend service at evening mass! Go in peace my son

 

Cheers buddy

 

Simon

[jasper65 6]

Gentlemen..

 

Isn't there a bit of argument for it's own sake taking place here? Overall, I find nothing to fault the man's shooting that I haven't done myself before, when shooting corvids and pidgeon fom high in the trees. These were humanely effective shots from what I saw here. If death was not absolutely instant, it followed very soon after the shot hit. There was one sequence where one crow required a second shot to despatch it; who hasn't had to do that before?

 

Overall, he shot as he found the opportunity and shot well. And in conclusion...

 

"Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone"

 

Simon

 

 

You have a point there Simon but I'm sure if you watch the footage over again you sill see plenty of times the quarry presented itself perfect for a clean sparked out head shot! even if he happend to miss the bird completely it wouldn't have mattered, Squabs and Parents birds sitting on a nest won't be going far! its not like most situation when you get the one chance so you need to make the shot.

 

seems to me the guy wasn't perhaps confident enough with his shooting to take on the smaller head area and decided to opt for the larger body mass, thats obviously his perogative but I'm sure a fair few shooters on here would of taken the head shots if they had presented themselves includeing myself .

 

atb Jasp

[zini 1,939]

Yep Jasper buddy,

 

Your probably right mate

seems to me the guy wasn't perhaps confident enough with his shooting to take on the smaller head area

 

Shooting through a scope camera is very deceiving and a lot harder than it looks.

 

Its really easy to pick fault with shots through a scope camera and a lot of my own shots that i look at afterwards on the pc i think "God what was that crap" at.

 

Its just because you are not looking through the scope with your eye and your not shouldering the rifle in the way it was meant to be shouldered and shot.

 

Your looking through a LCD screen probably while your balancing the butt of the rifle and your recoil pad on your left hand.

 

Ill do a little clip later explaining this now that ive got 2 cameras i can show this.

 

Si

Edited December 12, 2010 by zini

[Phantom 631]

Looking back at that thread Jasper, it was a time when I would only take headshots simply because I didn't have the knowladge of anatomy that I have now.

Back then I thought that headshots were the ONLY way to ensure a clean kill. I now know different as I have been taught by some of the very best shooters on here the differing KZ's on different quarry.

 

With my aquired knowladge I am now more than ever able to take on quarry and kill it instantly (or as fast as possible) that I would never have considdered as a shot.

 

So due to being educated well my personal opinions have changed

Perhaps by educating the anti's we may even change their opinions

After all I ideed used to be an anti

And I have changed my mind and opinions after I suffered severe financial and more importantly to me 'Sentimental' loss at the teeth and claws of vermin.

Now I won't hessitate to despatch vermin as cleanly as I can although I wouldn't take any old shot just for the sake of killing an animal I have to weigh up all the odds of fast kill versus slow painful death and like all reputable hunters/pest controllers we take the shot that will provide the fastest most humane outcome.

 

Phantom

[pianoman 3,587]

I have to say I cannot argue with Jasp's point. There WAS certainly plenty of perfectly presented head-shot opportunities and they were not taken advantage of. That leads me to two points to observe.

 

1. The shooter had an excellent PCP rifle and Duplex reticle scope that must be range-capable to deliver an accurate headshot. So, is it his confidence in question? That's a well-observed point made by you lads. But, I also agree with Tony's viewpoint that a decisive hit into the vital organs in the chest cavity is equally effective as a headshot in delivering a fast kill. Over many years I've shot thousands of corvids and pidgeon with both .177 and .22 pellets into the chest and, they've been killed almost outright, if not instantly.

 

2. Shooting through a scope cam. I have no experience to draw on so, perhaps Si, who certainly has, can tell us how that may affect handling and accuracy in more detail. Having said that, to be able to shoot with precision to considerable ranges with an extra lump of kit in front of the eyebell is not my idea of ideal eye-relief comfort, so, big respect for this accomplishment at least.

 

To sum up my thoughts, I really cannot imagine any decently right-minded air rifle hunter would want to go shoot a live animal without concern for either a mercifully humane and painlessly quick despatch, or let it go and hunt it another day. It doesn't always happen that way, as we know, for whatever reasons of accident but, the compassionate ideal is always the goal. And that's what truly seperates us from "Antis" who seem to me, to be a bunch of right-on ignorant pillocks with no real idea of what they are making a stand for, other than it's cool and trendy to vocally oppose something, just because they can. YouTube is the perfect soapbox for these arses unfortunately but, that's freedom of speech for you!

 

Simon

[millsy44 72]

That was the point i was trying to make jasper, cheers bud, i admitted last night i could of worded my post a bit better It wasnt my intention to get peoples backs up, i have no right to do that yet (with me being a newbie on here) Im glad it got a few people to show a bit of passion though, even if there were a few " " aimed in my direction, But if thats how you are then fair enough, Good debate in the end id say

[millsy44 72]

At last! just been trolling the archives and finally found the original topic on this video, some interesting views back then also which may have changed slightly, Click Link below .

 

atb Jasp

 

Body Shots On Crows

Just watched and read the comments from last time this was posted, fair enough people have admitted being abit harsh on the guy last time, After further educating them selves on body shots and being more experienced now from when the original comments were made. but reading those makes me feel alot better about my original comments, seems as tho plenty of people agreed back then, Im on this site to learn from the older more experienced shots on here, of which i will be thankful as i have already learned loads in the short time ive been on here from you guys. Lets let this post go now, and either agree, or disagree, or even agree to diagree............. lol cheers jasper, you were one of a few who saw the concerns i was making, Thanks for all other imputs aswell, even the negatives towards me, ill take them all in and try and learn from them

[Malt 379]

It wasnt my intention to get peoples backs up, i have no right to do that yet (with me being a newbie on here)

 

Every other f****r does it mate, don't worry!

 

What makes me laugh is young 'uns just starting out, coming on and asking advice on everything. 3 months later they're speaking like they've got 25 years experience in the field and answering newbies same questions!

[millsy44 72]

It wasnt my intention to get peoples backs up, i have no right to do that yet (with me being a newbie on here)

 

Every other f****r does it mate, don't worry!

 

What makes me laugh is young 'uns just starting out, coming on and asking advice on everything. 3 months later they're speaking like they've got 25 years experience in the field and answering newbies same questions!

I know what your saying Malt, ive been shooting since i was 6, probaly only been shooting "properly" since 14, im 25 so i now have a good few years under my belt and have seen and taken most types of shot, i class myself as educated and experienced in the sport of shooting, but in this sport you never stop learning, and thats what makes it fun, a.t.b

[jasper65 6]

Looking back at that thread Jasper, it was a time when I would only take headshots simply because I didn't have the knowladge of anatomy that I have now.

Back then I thought that headshots were the ONLY way to ensure a clean kill. I now know different as I have been taught by some of the very best shooters on here the differing KZ's on different quarry.

 

With my aquired knowladge I am now more than ever able to take on quarry and kill it instantly (or as fast as possible) that I would never have considdered as a shot.

 

Phantom

 

I know what you're saying Phantom . many times I go for Body shots in the kill zone if its the only option available to me, I dropped a pigeon the other day from one of the Oaks covered in Ivy which was a Body shot, the bird dropped without a flap and lay motionless, it was shot side on under the front end of its wing through the rub cage and out the other side, after chopping it up for the birds its Heart and lungs took the brunt of the pellet.

 

I think this is the difference! their are body shots and just plain old body shots which don't stop the quarry out right, looking at that video not many of them body shots look planted in the clean kill zone? I may be wrong but the reaction of some of the birds hit says enough for me, ok I know a good cranium shot is going to leave a bird flapping for a few seconds but boy does it get the job done! also if I miss its lived to fight another day, if we're not bang on with my Body shot things could get messy .

 

atb Jasp

 

 

I have to say I cannot argue with Jasp's point. There WAS certainly plenty of perfectly presented head-shot opportunities and they were not taken advantage of. That leads me to two points to observe.

 

1. The shooter had an excellent PCP rifle and Duplex reticle scope that must be range-capable to deliver an accurate headshot. So, is it his confidence in question? That's a well-observed point made by you lads. But, I also agree with Tony's viewpoint that a decisive hit into the vital organs in the chest cavity is equally effective as a headshot in delivering a fast kill. Over many years I've shot thousands of corvids and pidgeon with both .177 and .22 pellets into the chest and, they've been killed almost outright, if not instantly.

 

2. Shooting through a scope cam. I have no experience to draw on so, perhaps Si, who certainly has, can tell us how that may affect handling and accuracy in more detail. Having said that, to be able to shoot with precision to considerable ranges with an extra lump of kit in front of the eyebell is not my idea of ideal eye-relief comfort, so, big respect for this accomplishment at least.

 

To sum up my thoughts, I really cannot imagine any decently right-minded air rifle hunter would want to go shoot a live animal without concern for either a mercifully humane and painlessly quick despatch, or let it go and hunt it another day. It doesn't always happen that way, as we know, for whatever reasons of accident but, the compassionate ideal is always the goal. And that's what truly seperates us from "Antis" who seem to me, to be a bunch of right-on ignorant pillocks with no real idea of what they are making a stand for, other than it's cool and trendy to vocally oppose something, just because they can. YouTube is the perfect soapbox for these arses unfortunately but, that's freedom of speech for you!

 

Simon

 

cracking post as always simon! I'm sure the scope cam has to be taken into account from what Si was saying. the other thing I was shocked aboput is the prices the guy wants for that DVD .

 

atb Jasp

 

I know what your saying Malt, ive been shooting since i was 6, probaly only been shooting "properly" since 14, im 25 so i now have a good few years under my belt and have seen and taken most types of shot, i class myself as educated and experienced in the sport of shooting, but in this sport you never stop learning, and thats what makes it fun, a.t.b

 

I should think you have plenty of experience under your belt Millsy! sounds like you have been at it a few years to pick up a thing or two by now .

 

I started off with a "Gatgun" but was so young I couldn't load it! I didn't have the weight to push the Barrel down

 

Got passed down a Webley Hawk MK11 when I was about 11 from my brother, but did have a small Milbro before that, the Hawk was my first proper Hunting gun in the picture .

 

You just can't beat wearing bags jeans like back then can you

 

Atb Jasp

[jasper65 6]

Yep Jasper buddy,

 

Shooting through a scope camera is very deceiving and a lot harder than it looks.

 

Its really easy to pick fault with shots through a scope camera and a lot of my own shots that i look at afterwards on the pc i think "God what was that crap" at.

 

Its just because you are not looking through the scope with your eye and your not shouldering the rifle in the way it was meant to be shouldered and shot.

 

Your looking through a LCD screen probably while your balancing the butt of the rifle and your recoil pad on your left hand.

 

Ill do a little clip later explaining this now that ive got 2 cameras i can show this.

 

Si

 

Spot on Si much apreciated , must admit these scope cams have revolutionised Hunting footage! It gives the feeling when watching it that we are behind the camera taking the shot

 

atb Jasp

[JackReid 35]

Headshots may have worked better??

 

Agree with you mate. Most shots are fluffed body shots which birds flew away from or intially survived.

Shooting through obstructions also.

 

Very unpleasant to watch!