genetics v nurture?

[higgins 75]

So here we are

Genetics V nurture.

Breeding V environment.

 

Well.here is the start of a debate.Does genetics breed a dog that can be worked or do you nurture a dog that can be worked?

 

Or does the breeding produce a working dog or does the environment produce him?

 

Answers please, but not on a postcard,no prizes awarded,just stimulated thinking and an intelligent deep thinkimg process is required,

Higgins.

[danw 1,748]

the best bred dog will struggle to attain its true potential with a poor handler and a good handler will struggle to attain his potential with a poorly bred dog.

 

Genetics are every thing I firmly believe that we see so many dogs passed on cause so much shite is bred the working standard of lurchers would be so much higher if people bred responsibly and with real consideration of working ability rather than the with rose tinted glasses. Environment and upbringing do play a part but to quote~"you can't polish shite"

[stainlee 27]

the best bred dog will struggle to attain its true potential with a poor handler and a good handler will struggle to attain his potential with a poorly bred dog.

 

Genetics are every thing I firmly believe that we see so many dogs passed on cause so much shite is bred the working standard of lurchers would be so much higher if people bred responsibly and with real consideration of working ability rather than the with rose tinted glasses. Environment and upbringing do play a part but to quote~"you can't polish shite"

Pretty much what I,d have replied

[Guest it's all my land after 12]

the best bred dog will struggle to attain its true potential with a poor handler and a good handler will struggle to attain his potential with a poorly bred dog.

 

Genetics are every thing I firmly believe that we see so many dogs passed on cause so much shite is bred the working standard of lurchers would be so much higher if people bred responsibly and with real consideration of working ability rather than the with rose tinted glasses. Environment and upbringing do play a part but to quote~"you can't polish shite"

SPOT ON, you can't bring out what ain't in it ! quote~ "blood will tell"

[drifter 1 50]

I believe that both blood and upbringing are both key points to the makeup of a good working terrier,

You will get the odd hero that would make a true great no matter what circumstances surrond it but as a rule to get the best out of any working animal you need to put your bit in aswell.

I have seen a prime example of this first hand as I was very fortunate to be given a 4 month old terrier pup with all the blood behind it that you could ever wish for and bearing in mind he had been with a terrierman that had given him the best start in life and all the time and attention he could have wanted, but for want of a better words the pup was a weirdo with people and wary of everyone, I took him everywhere with me just to try and get a bond with him and eventually he came out of his shell with me but would never approach anyone else and I had little hope for him as a worker but how wrong I was with my early inclination and the dog made what I have no hesitation in saying one of the finest earth dogs I have seen let alone owned but he was a one man dog and I believe that had he been ignored from a pup and not had so much attention he would never have made it, It was worth all the effort in the end.

 

I have seen too many well bred dogs ruined that could well have made it in the right hands they are not machines you are dealing with nature and I believe that if you make sure you breed aiming for the best, give them the time and care and the best oppitunitys in early life that you can you can do no more and it is in the hands of them and god and if they dont make the grade you can honestly say it was not your fault and the mating did not work.

 

On the other hand I have seen too many pups produced that are bred with pound signs in mind and if you gave them 24hrs a day attention they would never make the grade so like I said both blood and enviroment are very important.

 

Atb Drifter

Edited December 1, 2010 by drifter 1

[Coyotehunter 689]

Very well put driffter , its like the old saying goes" you put the best to the best and hope for the best" sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. i do have one point to make and that is, i have seen it on a couple of ocassions, cross bred mut terriers from the dog pound turn into cracking working dogs, but then i think its like you said, if there reared and entered the right way, you stand a far better chance of having a good dog

[Plong 21]

Seen plenty of pups ruined/not given a chance by owners who know nothing then blame the breeding.

[DeanD 3]

You could teach / nurture a St. Bernard to hunt fox I suppose but would you sell any pups off it as hunting stock? If the dog hasn't the desire, then its lost something somewhere along the line and chances are it was lost due to poor breeding practices. But, not everybody wants a hard dog just as not everybody wants a soft dog... the main theme is that they work though. I think many times people get into arguments about what constitutes a dog worth breeding because each person is talking about a different type of worker or desires different a different type so its like comparing apples to oranges, both being frut but vastly different from each other.

 

Here's one for those that think they can nurture a dog... try turning a soft dog into a hard dog... let us know how that works out for ya.

 

 

Jmo...

[drifter 1 50]

You could teach / nurture a St. Bernard to hunt fox I suppose but would you sell any pups off it as hunting stock? If the dog hasn't the desire, then its lost something somewhere along the line and chances are it was lost due to poor breeding practices. But, not everybody wants a hard dog just as not everybody wants a soft dog... the main theme is that they work though. I think many times people get into arguments about what constitutes a dog worth breeding because each person is talking about a different type of worker or desires different a different type so its like comparing apples to oranges, both being frut but vastly different from each other.

 

Here's one for those that think they can nurture a dog... try turning a soft dog into a hard dog... let us know how that works out for ya.

 

 

Jmo...

 

 

Think you have missed the point its not about changing the dog or making it a world beater by wispering in its ear its about helping it reach its full potential, As I have said if it doesnt want to work you will not make it work but you can sure help one that does want to. . . .

[DeanD 3]

As I have said if it doesnt want to work you will not make it work but you can sure help one that does want to. . . .

 

Are you saying soft dogs don't want to hunt?

[Bosun11 537]

Genetics makes a worker... ONLY THEN does nurture make it better.

[drifter 1 50]

As I have said if it doesnt want to work you will not make it work but you can sure help one that does want to. . . .

 

Are you saying soft dogs don't want to hunt?

What do you mean when you say soft? dog do you mean bayer? If so then no im not saying they dont want to work if it stays and sees its job through consistantly then thats ideal but this thread is not about style of work it is about standard of work,

Do you disagree that people can help there dogs along and putting time in increases your chances of getting more out of them?

[drifter 1 50]

Genetics makes a worker... ONLY THEN does nurture make it better.

 

Correct as i said you have got to breed aiming for the best

[kipperfox 7]

its not the dog in the fight its the fight in the dog you just gotta hope you got one made of the right stuff.

my bich is a cracker! my 11 month old dog pup not from same blood at all just dosent look lik eits gona have the right stuff could be rong but even taking him to every dig letting him see a bit not too much dont look as yet his gona make it.certainly dont look like hell be anything like the bich time will tell but judging in there behaviours alot to do with whats in the dog.

i personally think every dog is different.

could be wrong only 11 month old i know still very young his self enteerd not dug to him yet though time will tell.but just seems to lack somethiing.

Edited December 1, 2010 by kipperfox

[DeanD 3]

its not the dog in the fight its the fight in the dog you just gotta hope you got one made of the right stuff.

my bich is a cracker! my 9 month old dog pup not from same blood at all just dosent look lik eits gona have the right stuff could be rong but even taking him to every dig letting him see a bit not too much dont look as yet his gona make it.certainly dont look like hell be anything like the bich time will tell but judging in there behaviours alot to do with whats in the dog.

i personally think every dog is different.

could be wrong only nine month old i know still very young his self enteerd not dug to him yet though time will tell.but just seems to lack somethiing.

 

Not saying your pup is or isn't what you want, but if you look hard enough and long enough no pup will be perfect in your eyes. Just something to consider, its easy to be hard on a pup without realizing that you're doing it sometimes. I'd think at 9 months you can tell too much can you?