deerhound

[welshlady1 0]

You're right...pre-ban is the disclaimer. What could you hunt pre-ban and does it equal what we have ? I'll give you an American euphemism...you can always make a fast horse go slow, but it's hard to make a slow horse go slow. In other words, if I have a dog that'll handle a coyote on it's own...what'ya think it'd do to a fox ?

a bite and a shake its the catching thats the hard part

[danw 1,748]

You're right...pre-ban is the disclaimer. What could you hunt pre-ban and does it equal what we have ? I'll give you an American euphemism...you can always make a fast horse go slow, but it's hard to make a slow horse go slow. In other words, if I have a dog that'll handle a coyote on it's own...what'ya think it'd do to a fox ?

 

How hard is it to make a slow horse go slow :whistling:

[Aaron Proffitt 142]

You're right...pre-ban is the disclaimer. What could you hunt pre-ban and does it equal what we have ? I'll give you an American euphemism...you can always make a fast horse go slow, but it's hard to make a slow horse go slow. In other words, if I have a dog that'll handle a coyote on it's own...what'ya think it'd do to a fox ?

 

How hard is it to make a slow horse go slow :whistling:

 

 

 

Too right ...hard to make a slow horse go fast.Dammit !

 

 

Fixed it...

[Aaron Proffitt 142]

You're right...pre-ban is the disclaimer. What could you hunt pre-ban and does it equal what we have ? I'll give you an American euphemism...you can always make a fast horse go slow, but it's hard to make a slow horse go slow. In other words, if I have a dog that'll handle a coyote on it's own...what'ya think it'd do to a fox ?

a bite and a shake its the catching thats the hard part

 

 

Good point...unless you start 'em on jack rabbits.

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

i am sure we have just as good and just as game dogs capable of dealing with 25-40lb coyote over here especialy when you run them in teams

 

 

I aint knockin the dogs from the UK.

[Guest storm70]

I had a deehound dog a long wile ago and that woud destroy a fox wa 1 strick and you couldent run him way any other dog or he'd have it great wa bitches I traveled to Inverness wa him in back a pickup and he dominated to other deerhoundx dogs wa a mussel on all the way there he was a real deerhound dog and is my bitches granfather I no and witnessed this dog do the lot singlehanded and I belive a cayote would take a bit a killing I seen hock take plenty big stuff on his own and I mean big stuff but he was a liebillity but I got on great wa him but no 1 would hunt wa him a dog which I'd like to greate agian a keeper or stalkers nightmare lol

[Lost Generation 93]

How many years and generations to be able to consistently come up with dogs like this breeding deerhound to greyhound in any percentage you want? Dogs like this run, catch, and kill coyotes every day over here in terrain like you see in the back ground. They dont smash their feet all to shit and they are damn near as fast as the fastest of track greyhounds. They have three times the amount of air in their lungs and they wont only fight as intense as any greyhound ever born but they bring a level of gameness with them that would match 90% of the best of bull greyhounds bred around the world. They dont need any injection of anything to make them better. What they need is the best of them bred to the best of them and culled ruthlessly as they already are by those of us who are serious. I wont deny that their are men over here that breed shit dogs cuz it happens all the time and it makes me laugh. I also wont deny there are men over here that keep feeding shit eater long after they have already proven to them that they are junk. That happens all over the world but it dont happen on my yard and it wont happen on the yards of the men that I like to deal with.

 

Hi Dan

My understanding is that most US coyote hands are effectively line bred deerhound-greyhounds although in some cases the lines have been kept going for quite a few generations so I'm not really sure exactly what you are arguing about. It's easy to think that you have something almost as fast as a track greyhound until you actually put it up against a good track dog and see that greyhound make your dog look like a donkey. We have a huge greyhound racing industry in the UK and I have several friends who breed and train track dogs for a living. I sometimes go out and have a run or two with them and its sobering to see how just how quick some of these track dogs really are, I have also run track and coursing bred greyhounds on game and have champion coursing greyhound blood swimming through the veins of my curent strain of deerhound greys. If I were you I wouldn't put any money on your coyote hounds being almost as quick as a track dog!

 

For work in the field, I have never found either greyhounds or deerhound-greyhounds lacking in the courage to close with and finish large and dangerous game. Dave Platts who is the UK's biggest breeder of deerhound-greys describes his line as 'fierce' by which he means that whatever they face they will rise to the challenge and display the ferocity needed to master their quarry. We don't have coyote's in the UK but I have spent over 30 years running deer with longdogs on a daily basis often over very rough terrain, though for the lawyers, obviously I ceased such activities once the ban came in five years ago. I think if you came over here and ran some of what we run or rather of course, used to run (remember the lawyers) then you might find your eyes opened as to the courage, speed, stamina, soundness and strength required to regularly take large game. I have seen coyotes but haven't had had the chance to run any, but Wikipedia puts their weight in the 15-46lb range which is comparable with our smallest species of deer - the Reeves Muntjac and muntjac bucks can be formidable opponents. Muntjac wounds have cost me a fortune over the last ten years or so and it's not so long ago that I saw a friend's bull cross bleed out after he caught a muntjac buck by a hind leg and the buck used his big canine tusks to open the dog's throat and shoulder right down to the bone such that there was nothing we could do to stop the bleeding in time. In comparision, years back when I was killing a lot of foxes, the vixens averaged about 12.5 lbs and dog foxes about 14lbs with the biggest fox I have caught weighing about 22lbs. I have had a number of dogs killed by deer over the years and have paid a small fortune out to vets for repairs to dogs who have sustained severe injuries from antler wounds, kicks and muntjac tusk wounds so don't make the mistake of thinking that coyote's are the only fast or dangerous game out there. just out of curiosity have you ever had a dog actually killed outright in a fight by a coyote? Lets not get into a pissing contest here, it's fascinating to hear how other people go about their business, but don't make the mistake of thinking you have seen it all and know it all.

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

First of all, I never said that "my" coyote dogs were as fast as track dogs but I can guarantee you there are boys runnin coyotes over here with nothin but track dogs. Maybe not the best of the best on the track but still very fast.

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

Trust me, I "DO NOT" believe that coyotes are the only fast dangerous game. I have never heard of a sighthound being killed out right by a coyote. I am not in a pissin match neither. I just wouldnt take a pup out of a KC bred deerhound nor would I ever breed one. I would try and get dogs from folks that hunt the game I'm after day after day. I'm the last person you need to worry about thinkin I've seen it all and know it all.

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

Lastly, I wasnt sayin that all the coyote dogs are great. I'm sayin even breeding the best we have to the best we have, its a crap shoot. No way in hell would I attempt to breed two shit eaters that are not up to the job to try and get some magical hybrid vigour that dont even exist. Its a sales pitch gents and folks been using it for decades in every breed or type of dogs there is.

[Johnathon 15]

Lastly, I wasnt sayin that all the coyote dogs are great. I'm sayin even breeding the best we have to the best we have, its a crap shoot. No way in hell would I attempt to breed two shit eaters that are not up to the job to try and get some magical hybrid vigour that dont even exist. Its a sales pitch gents and folks been using it for decades in every breed or type of dogs there is.

 

First of all Dan I just want to say how GREAT I think you are, your amazing.

 

On a slightly different note, I can see the value in both arguments. But,I feel that worker to worker is generally the best way forwards. If you can find another worker that has genuinely proved it self over and over again.

 

The problem with people is pride. I own a Deerhound cross thats doing the biz each week, and I think she is the best ever in the world. But others that know better, rate her as a medium dog. Great or medium dogs are one thing and thats a discussion between friends.

 

But, the real problem comes from people's pride, being to week and not culling the crap they have in there kennels. Its the shit thats doing the rounds that causes all crap for people looking for decent dogs out there. People dont like to be told or admit to having crap dogs, so they do just give it one more try, for ten years.

 

Take Golly for example, some people praise him to the hilt, saying he is the best. But I know others, genuine dog men who wouldnt use him to wipe the arse with. Everyone standards are different, and pride often prevents use from culling a dog when needed. Maybe the motive is cash for breeding Golly so much? Who knows!

 

Everyone standards are different and pride often prevents use from culling a dog when needed. If all the crap was gone we would only be left with decent dogs!

Edited November 17, 2010 by Johnathon

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

Good post John.

 

 

And...........I think you're amazing too. HAHA!

[Lost Generation 93]

Lastly, I wasnt sayin that all the coyote dogs are great. I'm sayin even breeding the best we have to the best we have, its a crap shoot. No way in hell would I attempt to breed two shit eaters that are not up to the job to try and get some magical hybrid vigour that dont even exist. Its a sales pitch gents and folks been using it for decades in every breed or type of dogs there is.

 

Hi Dan

It sounds like we agree about many things, but just don't underestimate the deerhound, there are probably only about 2,000 pure-bred deerhounds in the world right now and sure, many are kept as pets and the breed has suffered from inbreeding and from breeding for the show ring rather than for work, but there are a suprising number of workers out there - good, solid deerhounds who are grafting away killing large game and dangerous game in the UK, Eire, the USA, Australia and in Africa and elsewhere and obviously these are the ones to use to sire hybrids to do the same kind of work. BTW Have you read Kenneth Cassel's book on the deerhound - there are some great descriptions of deerhounds working kangaroo and emu in there.

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

I dont now anybody over here workin pure deerhounds but then again I dont know much.

[Johnathon 15]

I dont now anybody over here workin pure deerhounds but then again I dont know much.

 

We need to cull more.......................