diet anything missing?

[juckler123 707]

No mate never had a problem i only give em the one tablet a day never had any probs i give em them till ten or eleven mths old but have to agree if your feeding carcasses or a lot of bone they wouldnt be needed too much of a good thing and all that when i used to breed i always used calcium on the pups and you could see the bone coming on them compared to them that had none im no scientist just going on what ive seen with me own eyes like you say giving unnecessary vits and minerals do make for expensive urine but if the dogs are working flat out then a good suppliment i find also makes a difference but i only use it on adult dogs that are fit and getting run hard on a daily basis

[Guest alastair]

rainmakerskennels ,yes i heard from a vet who has working dogs that to much calcium ie tablet or powder can do more harm than good ,i feed mine raw stuff,along with hearts,livers etc,dog seems fine on it,im no expert just what ive seen with me own eyes.

[Rainmaker 7]

FWIW, here's a reply I added to another forum on the topic of diet which has a few resources you can hopefully use. It's quite long so if you're not after something like this skip to the end and read the two books (now freely available):

 

What your missus is making up there is champion food for the family, and although ten times better than "crap in a bag" not the best for a dog. Not knocking you or her fella, just offering some advice. If you're interested, read on. If not, pretend I never said a word lol

 

As Reload said, cooked food offers no nutritional benefits to a dog. Quite the opposite. Cooking alters the structure of the food; proteins denature, life enhancing energy giving fat becomes grease (compare that shiny white fresh stuff to the globules of slime once cooked!), and vitamins and minerals not only change in composition but also decay. Cooked food is CARCINOGENIC (cancer causing) to dogs! As is food containing grains and vegetables/fruits etc (which break down to simple sugars, feeding cancer).

 

Perhaps even more importantly, a soft diet WILL facilitate the development of periodontal disease. You don't want that to happen, trust me. Without regular access to touch chewing and tearing (nature's provision was raw meaty bones and carcasses), teeth begin to accumulate calculus and gums recede. Periodontal ligaments "melt" away (a type of collagen disease), and systemic failure sets in as young as three years of age.

 

Even pet food manufacturers' figures support this. By the time dogs are three years old, if fed commercial food and/or a soft diet (like you pictured), >85% of them will suffer oral pain and periodontal disease at a level warranting SURGICAL treatment (Penman, S & Emily, P. 1991. Scaling, Polishing and Dental Home Care. Waltham International Focus. 1:3 pp2-.

 

Sadly, most owners have no idea even if the look. Ever heard of, or worse still SMELT, the proverbial "Dog Breath"? Did you know that's actually a strong clinical sign of periodontal DISEASE, and is NOT a normal state of health?

 

In my experience, and that of many around the world, veggies are not required in any format. It is widely acknowledged that dogs require ZERO carbohydrate. In fact it can be harmful. Certainly to the person waiting for a grinder - don't! Just get on with feeding raw meaty bones, carcasses etc. Wild dogs and wolves don't eat vegetable matter, they don't even eat the stomach contents - although this is a popular and enduring myth. See Mech, Dr D 2003. Wolves: Behaviour, Ecology and Conservation, p123 & 124 for more on this.

 

It has recently been proven that the "domestic" dog is actually a very slightly modified Grey Wolf (Canis lupus). Proven to the extent that the dog has now been reclassified from Canis familiaris to Canis lupus familiaris. Dogs and Grey Wolves differ by a minute 0.2% of Mitochondrial DNA. Not DNA (the "big" stuff) but tiny MDNA. This tiny difference accounts only for coat colour and type, size, shape etc as evidenced amongst differing breeds. Dogs ARE simply Wolves, but modified a bit (Wayne, R. K. 1993. "Molecular Evolution of the Family Dog", Trends in Genetics, 9:6 pp218-224).

 

So why do we still as a society insist on feeding them like cattle? Huge amounts of grain and vegetables, by-products and fillers, and all manner of ingredients alien to their brethren and ancestors. Did you know that by NOT feeding soft pappy food, and NOT feeding kibble or other commercial food, your dog is VERY unlikely indeed to develop any kind of oral disease - periodontal or otherwise?

 

Dogs (and Wolves) are designed to eat carcasses. Skin, flesh, blood and bones. They're predators and carnivores (how SOME hunters have trouble accepting this is paradoxical in itself!) and need not be fed like rabbits. They should be fed the rabbits themselves! Raw meaty bones and carcasses act like nature's toothbrush; scrubbing and flossing teeth with every mouthful, really forcing the dog to work his teeth, gums and jaws at every meal.

 

There is now a hypothesis gaining ever wider acceptance amongst enlightened veterinary surgeons and veterinary dentists (of which there is only one qualified in the UK, and he feeds and recommends... not Hills but RAW MEATY BONES!). This hypothesis states that periodontal disease is the regulating factor for wild carnivores. If they can't catch and kill enough, they develop periodontal disease and die - just like domestic dogs do when fed soft mushy foods, and kibble.

 

The herbivores regulate the grasses and plants, the carnivores regulate the herbivores... We didn't know what regulated the carnivores but now many think we've cracked it. Periodontal disease. It is now becoming normal and expected that dogs (and cats) are "middle aged" or "old" by 7 to 10. Even in the wild a wolf is expected to live to 16+, how much longer in captivity? Most of our (great?) grandparents can tell of dogs that used to always live to 15 to 20 years of age. No more. Funny, consdering the great advances veterinary medicine and surgery seemed to have provided.

 

Killer kibble and incorrect diet leading to periodontal disease seems to be key to this recently shortened lifespan and proliferation of cancer.

 

I could go on (and on, and on), but I won't. Surely a dog will look better when switched off kibble and onto a home cooked diet. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. The main reason for this change lies in the ABSENCE OF KIBBLE not the PRESENCE of home-cooked food. Try them on whole, RAW meaty bones and see the difference in a month. No need to spend time prepping veggies (if they really needed them, they would be able to utilise them without your grinding them up!).

 

If you're really interested, you can read Dr Tom Lonsdale's books "Raw Meaty Bones - Promote Health" and "Work Wonders - Feed Raw Meaty Bones" free of charge in PDF format here. The first one (red cover) is a large tome and covers the detailed science of WHY you should feed only raw meaty bones/carcasses etc. The smaller book (Work Wonders) is a simple "HOW TO" and may be the best place to start unless you're up for some deep research/reading.

 

Anyway I'm sure most are shouting disapproval at me by now, and wanting to reply to tell you how it's all nonsense and that you should feed your predatory, carnivorous canine on whole grains, herbs and seeds so I'll get off LOL

 

Cheers,

 

Lee

 

Hope you find some use in there mate

[juckler123 707]