Bitsa to Bitsa

[Crow 1]

Having had a PM regarding the breeding of one of my past dogs I have been thinking about just how accurate most 'pedigrees' are when it comes to lurcher-to-lurcher matings. Indeed, I have only ever had one dog that I knew, without doubt, what the true breeding was, and that was only because I could trace it's breeding back to the pure-breeds on both sides.

 

But what about the 1/2 greyhound, 1/4 collie, 1/8 saluki, 1/8 bedlington, or maybe the 3/8 greyhound, 3/8 bull, 1/8 collie, 1/8 deerhound and so on? Unless we can trace the breeding accurately back to the pure breeds then we cannot say with 100% certainty what the true breeding is.

 

Therefore I have my suspicions when it comes to the advertised breeding of pups, and my cynical side believes that most are the result of either guesswork, or the desire to provide the 'in' cross at the time.

 

But why do this? Why not be honest and sell them as lurcher-to-lurcher bred without providing a breakdown of how they are bred?

 

I have two dogs in my kennel at the moment and both are 'Bitsas', however, I don't believe that detracts from their usefulness in the field.

 

My oldest dog 'Bowzer' was the result of (and I'm quoting the seller) his "saluki cross mated with his mates lurcher". He didn't try to offer a 'pedigree', to him it was just a breeding between two useful lurchers to provide himself with a new pup. Here's the result:

 

 

He's now retired due to severing both his tendons in his front wrist last year, but he was a good lamping dog in his time (despite a massive amount of problems that had developed in him during the 6 months the breeder had him). He also has (well had) the saluki style of running that saw him effortlessly eat up the ground and I have no doubt he would have been a better hare dog than rabbit dog had I been living in hare-rich country!

 

My youngest dog 'Freyja' is also a bitsa, but again she's proving to be a good dog - correction, shes proving to be an excellent dog and I have no doubt she will be my best yet. But again I brought her without a pedigree of any kind; she was simply the result of mating a 'very good dog' with a 'very good dog'.

 

 

So the question I'm throwing out to the forum is this:

 

Would you buy a bitsa bred lurcher, or does it have to come with a 'pedigree'?

 

Crow

Edited December 23, 2006 by Crow

[Guest JOEB]

I think we all have our personal preferences when it comes to whats in the mix, how accurate the supposed mixture is who can tell?.........as long as its in the general area.

I like a certain type, and I also like fawn colour dogs.......makes feck all difference to how it works, but if I have to look at it all day, I want to have something I like....simple as!

The only people who can give a pretty accurate "pedigree" if thats what you want to call it, are those that have started there lines from two base breeds.........other than that, its all guesswork to a greater or lesser degree.JMHO

J

[jacob 28]

A good dog is where you find it.

how does the old saying go,best to the best and hope for the best,id be more concerned about what the parents have done rather than trying to work out percentages,its not an exact science.all lurcher breeding is a bit of a gamble .

[skycat 6,173]

All mine are bitsas, with the exception of a Collie cross I bought in. When I bought into this line over 20 years ago they were bitsas then, and I've only ever bred them to other bitsas: all proven in the field. All mine are related, though some have more Saluki in for big rabbits: I can't see the need to go back to a first/second etc cross when mine do everything I want them to.

 

Bitsa

 

Bitsa (cousin to first bitsa)

 

Dam to first bitsa!

Edited December 23, 2006 by skycat

[chartpolski 23,346]

I, personlly, would not buy a pup that was only advertised as "Lurcher to Lurcher". I would have to know the breeds in it's make up, not neccasarilly the exact percentages. Why ? I would not want collie or bull in my pup, before anyone jumps on me, it's just my preferance, nothing wrong with those crosses. My latest lurcher could be considered a "bitza", but I know her exact breeding, beddy/grey x deer/grey - whippet/grey, which is just the breeds I wanted in a pup, (wouldn't of minded a bit saluki, either). Obviously, some breeders will say anything or tell you what you want to hear, so best buy a pup of someone with a good reputation.

Cheers.

[doxhope 2]

lurcher x lurcher all the time for me

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

With deferance to 'Chartpolski' there; It's always made me smile when I see " Deerhound X ..... ". Let's face it; With the close run thing between a genuine, 100%, Pedigree Deerhound being available to our sort, and a good, old fashioned, Working type Beddie? I'd just like to get into a short term time machine and nip back to examine these icons of the Exchange and Mart breeders programmes

 

Then again; Who would really want a pedigree / show bred Dog in the mix any way?! Each to their own preferances, I s'pose.

 

No. I've had one or two 'decent' lurchers, in the past. Known some Blinders. One in particular, from a life time ago, was Mark A's " Joe ". Teriffic Dog. Fawn. Rough coated. Brains of a Mensa merchant. We called Him " Deerhound X ". But he'd have been another mans " Norfolk ". Or maybe a " Smithfield " ? I'd bet some bright spark could have woven " Drover " in there, came That phase of fashion!

 

Joe was, more than likely, just two damn good Dogs put together by lads who reckoned they could make good 'ns. Well, in Joe they did.

 

Best damn Dog I ever had the privalige of actually owning, from a pup, was the result of something or other - I don't even remember if I ever knew! - and what would now be termed a " Pit Bull X " sort of bitch. I called him " Jook ". He never did anything too outstanding with me. Then I let Chris H have him - and give him the sort of working to death he wanted - and Chris took him to Fame. 'Jook' begat " Del " ('The Dog with the Dick') and Del, if anything, out performed Jook.

 

To this day, I genuinely haven't got a clue what Jook involved. But all the 'Pedigree' in the written world couldn't have made him a finer Dog.

 

Give me a Dog like Joe or Jook any day. F*ck what's mean't to be in him. Or, better; Give such a Dog to a man who knows how to bring out and harness such a Dogs fullest potential

[Guest alastair]

bring what you bought,run what you brung.....is my motto,all this percentage of this and that dont bother me much,just get out with em and have fun.

[jacob 28]

jook, romany word for dog i believe,is this a coincidence mr shitter, or are you sittin in a trailer somewhere

[Guest Ditch_Shitter]

Jacob; Jivav dray kenner, mush

 

[chartpolski 23,346]

With deference to you D.S. I know the owners of the sire and dam of my dog and know both dogs are workers. The Bedlington in my pup came from Breakheart fell kennel and the deerhound in her was from working lines. I don't understand your comment about deerhounds being available to the "likes of us", why not ? There are people on this site who have well bred , working deerhounds available for stud, like wise working bedlingtons. The point of my comment was that I would like to know the breeds in the makeup of any pup I was buying so I could have an idea of how it might turn out. When you are told the breeding is "lurcher to lurcher" only, you have absolutly no idea how they will turn out. Of course there has been plenty of good dogs that their breeding is not known, but how much rubbish has been passed of as "lurcher to lurcher" when actually the bitch has been caught by some cur ? Nothing wrong with doing some checking before buying a pup.

Cheers.

[jacob 28]

mr shitter,cak

[juckler123 707]

If you know the parents no problem i would be wary of buying if i knew nothing of the parents although i reckon i would take a gamble if the pups looked like theyd got that something special about em all the best dogs i have ever seen out have been bitsas

[doxhope 2]

In an earlier post I said it was always lurcher x lurcher for me, but, this statement wouldnt go as far to saying any old lurcher x lurcher mating, I would have to know the background of anything I was after. I have seen too many lads over the years, kill a copuple of hares sharp, and their dogs instantly becoming immortalised, by them, and believe you me, there are some great bull-shitters out there. In over thirty years I have only bought in a couple of dogs, and even these were reatives to my own. Luckily I can trace one side of my dogs back to Nuttals deerhound x greyhounds in the 70`s, but its not all lurchermen that can do this, 2 generations back and thats the most for most. The pure bred people have the luxury of pedigrees going back as far as they want, the only thing is, not many of them have the ability to inturpret or use this to the full advantage, so, if the magority of lurcher buffs had the same info, could they, or would they use it??? Yes poor thought out lurcher x lurcher matings can produce rubbish, but so can the so called scientific breeding of first crossers, probably more so. Dog breeding shouldnt be a game of chance, and it is not a simple collection of facts, a statistical problem solving subject or careful examination of exceptional dogs. Better lurcher breeding requires a plan, weather its lurcher x lurcher or first cross breeding There is a place for all types of cross in the lurcher breed, but you cant get rats from mice, I will stick to my lurcher x lurchers, but adding, from known background.

[Guest wilsonnobby]

im dog 1/2 greyhound, 1/4 collie, 1/8 saluki, 1/8 bedlington im not bothed about going back to pure breeds both parents work as long as she works how i want her to

Edited December 24, 2006 by wilsonnobby