17 hmr / 22

[wabbit slayer 16]

Im looking for advice please. I currently use shotguns and air rifles but I am thinking about applying for my FAC, my main quarry is rabbits, pigeons,crows etc

1.Whats the pros and cons over 17hmr and 22

2.whats the diff between 22 / 22LR / 22 magnum or are they all the same gun just with different types of bullets

3.What would be my range for shooting rabbits with 17hmr and 22

4.What else should I be asking

 

Cheers

[matt_hooks 188]

The .22LR, .22WMR and .17HMR are three very different rounds. The .22LR is the most popular ammunition worldwide. It is a very capable round and if you do your part will take rabbit, pigeon and other pest species out to about 100 yards depending on conditions and how good you are. In the UK, most people shoot .22 subsonic rounds for hunting, which when fired from a moderated rifle provide an extremely quiet and effective pest control solution.

 

The .22WMR (Winchester Magnum Rimfire) is a very different round. Whereas the .22LR puts out around the 100 ft.lb mark, the .22WMR runs out closer to the 300ft.lb mark. A very capable round, but noisier (a supersonic round, so even when moderated they make a fair old crack) and more expensive than the .22LR. They give you an increase in range, and a bigger margin of safety for bigger quarry such as foxes.

 

The .17HMR (Hornady Magnum Rimfire) is a very fast, very flat shooting round. It is based on the .22WMR case, necked down to accept a .172" bullet. They fire very light bullets (around 17 grains) at a very high muzzle velocity (somewhere around 2500fps) giving a slightly lower energy than the WMR at around 250ft.lb. This is primarily a long range round, though it is very effective at short range. The tiny, super fast .17 bullet is often preferred over the WMR or .22LR as the probability of ricochet is reduced, and the bullet tends to fragment when it touches anything (grass, leaves, earth) rather than carrying on through, making them somewhat safer. The .17 is fine for small pest species, and many people use it for foxes, though some police forces will not condition the .17 for foxes. The .17 is very noisy due to the speed, and is similar in cost per round to the WMR.

 

If you want to eat what you shoot, the .22LR offers the least meat damage, with the least noise, for the lowest cost. This is why, even though it's nearing 100 years old, it is still the most popular calibre! Anything shot with the .17 is likely to be so badly damaged as to be inedible. The .22WMR can also do a lot of meat damage.

 

There are other factors, but those are the normal points that people want to know about.

 

Hope some of that is useful!

 

Edited to add, the .22 short, .22 long and .22LR can all be fired from a rifle chambered for .22LR, but not the other way round. The .22WMR is a different round entirely and is not interchangeable with the .22short, long or LR. The .22WMR is what most people call a ".22 magnum". There is also a .17 mach2, but that's a different kettle of fish!

Edited September 27, 2010 by matt_hooks

[wabbit slayer 16]

Thakyou

[bewsher500 3]

I have all three calibres, in fact I also have the .17M2 (shorter version of the .17HMR)

 

i use the .22lr for anything I want to eat or need to shoot with a silencer (for more chance of shooting as well as noise disturbance reasons)

I shot a rabbit at 115 yds with a subsonic .22 once, but at that range you are really putting faith in your own ballistics knowledge. I was zeroed at 70yds and was aiming 6" above the bunny's head! it took so long to get there you can almost see the bullet!

It has a rainbow trajectory and in my opinion too limited a bullet choice in subsonic but is very versatile. the 40gr solid lead bullets will ricochet off wet grass if you dont watch what you are doing.

you can buy high velocity rounds that will go supersonic and reduce your drop at distance but your useable range is still maxing out at 75-100yds and you have lost the element of silence. I use a Pes overbarrel and the only audible part is the firing pin and bullet strike with most subs.

 

The .17HMR is great and packs enough punch to take out foxes with well placed rounds. not cheap if you shoot a lot but with a inch drop at 200yds when zeroed at 100 it makes a great crow rifle. practice and play around with round choice and you could easily be taking things out past that range but wind plays havoc with the little 17gn rounds.

The balistic (read "plastic") tipped rounds are very frangible and will kill most things even if slightly off target. The hollow point jacketed round is even better for foxes IMO with massive wound tract from such a small round, but for that reason head shots are your only option for long range rabbits if you plan on eating any of it.

 

the .22WMR is very popular in the US as it is cheap and packs a punch on ground game that they have between rabbit and fox size. we dont really have gofer and groundhog type vermin so in my opinion it is a bit redundant. it is noisy as hell. noiser than the .17HMR even when moderated. it has a limited range of BETWEEN 100-150yds as it drops like a stone after that even with 30gr bullets vs 40gr.

the bullet choice is not one I would consider choosing this calibre for foxes and you wont get sanction from the FAC unit to use it for foxes as you primary reason.

I dont use it as I prefer the faster, flatter, quieter, cheaper, more powerful .17HMR for anything past 75 yds with the exception of the .17m2.

 

very cheap compared to .17HMR and still very flat and powerful with frangible bullets. good for rabbits and crows up to 150-200yds max. less damage to the meat than the HMR but very accurate.

If I could get it with a 25-30gr round it would be perfect and would probably replace my .22lr (nah, would still keep it!)

 

 

IMO if you have a decent air rifle already you have a 50yd silenced round and can shoot crows/pigeons in trees and rabbits on the ground.

get a .17HMR and you can shoot all those things you can see but cant get close to.

[salukiwhippet 6]

1" drop at 200 yards? Are you sure Bewsher?

 

I've got .22lr, and my shooting mate has a .17HMR. I wouldn't have an HMR. It's vastly overrated in my opinion - really expensive ammunition, noisy, very sensitive to wind drift, not enough gun for foxes on anything like a regular basis, and it does ricochet, not as much as an LR, but it still does so. People seem to buy them and try to do the job of a centrefire with them - buy a CF if that's what you need - my hornet costs less to reload than HMR stuff, is more capable in the wind, wider range of bullets, and just makes much more sense.

 

 

Don't forget you'll need a moderator for each rifle, and these need to be applied for as seperate firearms on the form.

 

James

[wabbit slayer 16]

I need to pick the right gun for my needs, safety is my 1st concern. People say the 22lr is quiet and if zeroed at 70 yards it will only need 1" hold over for a 100yard shot, but that's about its max range for rabbits(not sure if true or not).

But I am told it tends to ricochet really badly, so would be worried about this as not sure how far it could carry.

 

Then you have the 17 hmr but I'm told the down side is the noise, but it travels really flat so zeroed at 70 yards it would only need 1" hold over for a 200 yard shot(again I have no idea if this is true)down side unless its a head shot the meat isn't worth eating, and various things such as wind or a blade of grass will affect its ability to hit its target

 

I have no idea how far either of the rounds would travel if a suitable back stop was not used?

 

Is anyone aware of any ranges in the Yorkshire area that I could go and see the various options in use? this may give me a better idea regards to noise and effective range.

 

And just to add haw would a FAC air rifle compare to any of the above?

 

As you may be able to guess I am clueless as you may say.

[matt_hooks 188]

You never fire a rifle without a suitable backstop, so your question is moot. Both the .17 and .22LR are capable of doing serious damage several hundred yards downrange.

 

An FAC air rifle can be anything from 13 ft.lb to power levels in excess of a .22LR firing subs. The same rules apply. If you don't have a good backstop you shouldn't be considering the shot!

 

In my opinion, an FAC air rifle offers no advantage over a .22LR, and has the disadvantage of the kit being a great deal more expensive.

[IanB 0]

.22 or HMR... .22 Everytime !

 

 

[foxbasher 0]

I need to pick the right gun for my needs, safety is my 1st concern. People say the 22lr is quiet and if zeroed at 70 yards it will only need 1" hold over for a 100yard shot, but that's about its max range for rabbits(not sure if true or not).

But I am told it tends to ricochet really badly, so would be worried about this as not sure how far it could carry.

 

Then you have the 17 hmr but I'm told the down side is the noise, but it travels really flat so zeroed at 70 yards it would only need 1" hold over for a 200 yard shot(again I have no idea if this is true)down side unless its a head shot the meat isn't worth eating, and various things such as wind or a blade of grass will affect its ability to hit its target

 

I have no idea how far either of the rounds would travel if a suitable back stop was not used?

 

Is anyone aware of any ranges in the Yorkshire area that I could go and see the various options in use? this may give me a better idea regards to noise and effective range.

 

And just to add haw would a FAC air rifle compare to any of the above?

 

As you may be able to guess I am clueless as you may say.

 

Trust me, if you zero your hmr at 70 or even 100 you'll need a lot more hold over than an inch!

[bewsher500 3]

you'll need a moderator for each rifle, and these need to be applied for as seperate firearms on the form.

 

I have one silencer for .22lr, .22HMR and .17hmr/M2. works a charm.

 

was a bit off with my numbers, its flat but not that flat. 100yds=0 200yds= -8" I think

meant to say that between 75 and 175yds the hmr is only just over an inch above and below when zeroed at 120-130. for all intents and purposes that is negligible

 

People say the 22lr is quiet and if zeroed at 70 yards it will only need 1" hold over for a 100yard shot, but that's about its max range for rabbits(not sure if true or not).

 

its more like 5-6" holdover at that range.

Edited September 29, 2010 by bewsher500

[wabbit slayer 16]

Thanks everyone Looks like its the 22lr Next decision semi auto or bolt action Think im more swung towards bolt action what you think

[salukiwhippet 6]

you'll need a moderator for each rifle, and these need to be applied for as seperate firearms on the form.

 

I have one silencer for .22lr, .22HMR and .17hmr/M2. works a charm.

 

 

 

That's ok until you want to take a couple of rifles out at the same time. Obviously works for you though so fair do's.

 

As for semi vs bolt, bolt action for me every time - more reliable, cheaper and often more accurate in my experience. Some folk use semis to good effect, but they're just not for me.

 

James

[bewsher500 3]

.22 is a very dirty round, can make semi autos jam and misfire without regular stripping.

grew up with a semi auto, i now have a bolt action which is more accurate, much quieter and doesnt need stripping.

you never really need to fire that second shot that much faster if the first one goes in the right place anyway!

[wabbit slayer 16]

Thanks all 22lr bolt it is

[matt_hooks 188]

A good choice. Though I use a .22LR semi auto, which I find perfectly capable out to any reasonable range, and you can get three or four bunnies without the hassel of having to rack the bolt. Me, lazy?