FAC Application

[iamduvern 62]

In a couple of months it will be  time to renew my shotgun license I think its about time to try for my FAC at the same time I have plenty of land to shoot over and I can't decide what to apply for

 

rabbits and the occasional fox would be the main quarry

 

FAC Air rifle .17hmr .22 would be the logical choices any other suggestions??

 

I don't want to overdo the application but don't want to miss out, also amounts of ammo I try to get out a couple of times a week so I will not be using large amounts 

 

Any hints and tips for the application form would be appreciated

 

 

[willum 89]

how do mate get ya self out to your permision first off and get them to write you letters stating that the land owners are willing to grant you permision to use a firearm on there land stating vermin as such ie rabbit fox . a nice little 22lr would do you grand for the bunnys especially if you wana take them in to butchers head shots good clean kill with a 22. hmr .17 ok for long range bunny not to good for taking in to butchers and tend to buffet a little on a breezy nite and peeps frown on them for fox shooting and your f/o will prob not like you using it for this. which leaves the 22 hornet smallest centre fire round good for vermin but not on resale to butchers but will cleanly take out ol charley, as for rounds i would put down to buy 200 and store 300 if you go for either .17 hmr or .22 lr as a start. if you try centre fire buy 100 and store 200. 1 other thing to take into concideration is that make sure you put down on ya ticket that you want a moderator aswell for what ever calibre you choose. atb with your application yis willum.

[stubby 175]

Id ask more on the .22 ammo, hold 750, buy 500,

I try to get out once a week, and got that no probs

you don't want to be running out over a bank holiday weekend

[markha 99]

North Wales Police will not allow 17hmr for fox and I agree entirely with that. 223 is way to go.

[murphymax 9]

22lr for rabbits and either a 222 or 223 for fox.

[fjer20 0]

There is no law against shooting foxes with a .22 rimfire rifle. Your local FAO may say that you cannot do so, but without a law behind them there is little they can do to stop you. The law on .22 rimfires states they are suitable to shoot vermin - people disputing this may argue foxes are not vermin, but it would be pretty hard to argue a fox was anything but a vermin - something which has not been achieved in Court to date. The fox is predatory on birds and other animals, it is a pest in terms of domestic fowl and game bird preservation.

 

Police believe that conditions don’t allow foxes to be shot unless the word fox appears within the condition. If you ask your FAO if you can see the conditions for rimfire rifles, he/she will show you that there is a separate listing for foxes. This separate listing of Fox was added for centre fire rifles to restrict those users to foxes, to prohibit the lawful shooting of smaller vermin species as they felt that it was somehow inhumane/cruel to dispatch an animal with more energy than is needed. This was borne out of a worry that people might start a following in the UK that enjoys using the biggest calibres at the longest ranges to kill or blast away the smallest thing. The additional listing was NOT added to prohibit foxes being shot with rimfires.

 

Admittedly, a .22 rimfire is not the best rifle to shoot a fox with, but if you follow a good code of practice and only shoot at foxes within 50 yards with high velocity ammunition, then it is up to the job. I'm sure there will be people on this site that do so.

 

So it depends on what kind of vermin control you want to do, if you want a rifle for rabbits and the occasional fox (that you are happy to shoot within 50 yards) then a 22 rimfire is suitable.

[iamduvern 62]

I phoned my local FAO today for a chat and he was quite happy about the land I have as some of it has been cleared in the past the only problem he said that I could have would be mentoring now I have been out with a couple of pals in the last year or two but 1 has handed his license in due to illhealth and the other guy has moved up North so at the moment Im stuffed regarding getting out for a bit of hands on practicing

 

So what are the rules regarding mentoring?? I seem to be getting conflicting info Local gun shop seems to think as I have land and a shotgun cert that there should be no problems yet speaking to FAO I get the impression that hes talking about serious mentoring

 

So are there any hard and fast rules regarding mentoring eg having to join a club or arranging some sort of private tuition

 

 

[fjer20 0]

I don't know much about the rules of mentoring but what i will say is that you stand more chance of getting a .22 rimfire and being able to use it without being mentored than you do of getting anything centrefired and being able to use it without being mentored. My guess would be that you should be ok for getting an FAC for a .22 rimfire without being mentored as you have some shooting experience (shotgun) and the land is registered. The interview is also important. If you can prove yourself to be a knowledgeable and trustworthy sort of character, and hammer home to the FAO that you have been out with friends and observed the importance of backstops and quarry range etc then you should be fine as the grant of your FAC (with the terms you want) will also rely on, to a certain extent, the granting FAO's impression of you.

 

A good place to start would be a phone call to BASC for some advice.

 

Hope that helps

[iamduvern 62]

I don't know much about the rules of mentoring but what i will say is that you stand more chance of getting a .22 rimfire and being able to use it without being mentored than you do of getting anything centrefired and being able to use it without being mentored. My guess would be that you should be ok for getting an FAC for a .22 rimfire without being mentored as you have some shooting experience (shotgun) and the land is registered. The interview is also important. If you can prove yourself to be a knowledgeable and trustworthy sort of character, and hammer home to the FAO that you have been out with friends and observed the importance of backstops and quarry range etc then you should be fine as the grant of your FAC (with the terms you want) will also rely on, to a certain extent, the granting FAO's impression of you.

 

A good place to start would be a phone call to BASC for some advice.

 

Hope that helps

BASC Is my first port of call tomorrow morning I have a couple of months to do my homework and get a plan 

 

 

Thanks for all of the advice

 

 

[markha 99]

Cal BASC and speak to Mike, he will go off his nut when you mention 'mentoring' as its a very contentious issue at the moment!

[bewsher500 3]

you can shoot foxes with whatever calibre you feel is appropriate.

 

If you are out shooting Cape Buffalo on your private game reserve in kent and charlie pops up you can happily take him down with your rigby .416.

likewise if bagging bunnies with a .22LR and Mr Fox pops his head out of a hole 20 feet away, feel free to ventilate him.

 

"Calibres authorised should be powerful enough to ensure a clean kill of the quarry species concerned."

 

The law comes into effect when it dictates "primary reason" for ownership.

 

You would be well advised to read the statutory guidance issued to all police authorities.

 

13.23 Common rifle cartridges considered

suitable for the shooting of foxes range from

.17 Remington, and .22 Hornet to .22 -250

and .220 Swift, though there is a wide range

of suitable similar calibres commercially

available. In windy areas, where heavier bullets

aid accurate shooting, or if applicants wish to

use one rifle for shooting both deer and foxes

they may choose a rifle in 6mm (.243/.244) or

6.5mm (.264) calibre. .22 Rimfire is generally

too low-powered to be used against fox

except at short range, but may reasonably be

permitted for use against such quarry in

certain circumstances. However, sole use

against fox would not normally be sufficient

“good reason†to acquire such a rifle (see

paragraph 13.15). Combination shot gun/rifles

should have the rifled barrel in a similar

calibre. Expanding ammunition should be

authorised for shooting foxes. Those involved

in shooting foxes will normally be authorised

to possess up to 250 rounds and acquire 200

at any given time, but consideration should

though be given to each shooter’s individual

circumstances, particularly where re-loaders are

acquiring missiles. See also paragraph 13.14 on

allowing applicant’s flexibility to reasonably

shoot other species on named land.

 

13.17 The rifle cartridge most commonly used

to shoot ground game and vermin is .22

rimfire. If a combination rifle/shot gun

(such as a German “Drillingâ€) is used, the rifle

calibre should be .22 rimfire. More powerful

rounds such as .17 Remington and .22 Hornet

are suitable for ground game and vermin, and

may be considered if the applicant also intends

to shoot fox to avoid possession of a further

gun. Expanding ammunition may be granted

for shooting vermin.

 

Note that it is particulary fluffy on what a ".22 rimfire" actually refers to.

 

Anyone applying for an FAC should be fully aware of all aspects of this document before they apply:

 

http://www.cpsa.co.uk/userfiles/file/HO-Firearms-Guidance2835.pdf

 

However how your local police authority interprets this documents is, as they say, "a law unto themselves".

 

Play the game, apply for what you need for the specific purposes that the police will issue it for.

If your primary reason for applying for a .17HMR is to shoot foxes then be aware that some constabularies will say no, which is entirely against the recomendations of the Home Office, but what are you going to do about it!?

[hilly 6]

Great topic and very good read. Thank you for putting it up and going into so much detail.

Mark.

[RicW 67]

Put your rimmy down as "Purpose - rabbits, small pest species and cpportunistic fox. Tell your FEO at interview that you won't be deliberately out for fox but if Charley pops his head out of the hedge 50 yds away it's RIP Charles. You are unlikely to get a rimmy for "the purpose of shooting fox" only, no matter what rhe law says but that wording should be acceptable.

 

Ric

Edited October 1, 2010 by RicW

[fjer20 0]

It is an interesting topic and one that should perhaps be clarified by the Home Office. I think it is wrong that in different areas of the country different interpretations of this law are found, something should be done to standardise them.

 

Shooting foxes with a .22 lr can be a bit of a taboo subject, although shooting foxes with a shotgun is readily accepted, even though similar Home Office conditions apply. Both weapons are suitable for the job as long as they are used within a certain range.

 

Bewsher500 provided some great information and i agree that you should be aware of all the aspects.

 

But what is YOUR "primary reasons" for having a rifle? If it is mainly for rabbits and the occasional fox then i still belive your best bet is to go for a .22lr. When i applied for a FAC for a .22lr (in North Wales), i stated that the reason for having such a rifle was for vermin and pest control. At NO point did i have to list what specific species of vermin or pests i was needing it for.

 

I for one would be interested to hear what advice BASC give you on this subject.

 

 

[danw 1,748]

My feo tried to remove fox as a condition on my fac but after I argued that the .22lr was my tool of choice for shooting cubs from den sites he relented and left the condition on but in all I think it ridiculous that my cert states vermin and fox.Fox are vermin are they not?

 

 

 

ver·min (vʉr′mən)

noun pl. vermin -·min

various insects, bugs, or small animals regarded as pests because destructive, disease-carrying, etc., as flies, lice, rats, or weasels

BRIT. birds or animals that kill game

a vile, loathsome person

such persons collectively

 

ver·min (vûrˈmĭn)

noun pl. vermin vermin

Various small animals or insects, such as rats or cockroaches, that are destructive, annoying, or injurious to health.

Animals that prey on game, such as foxes or weasels.

a. A person considered loathsome or highly offensive.

b. Such people considered as a group.

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