Advice needed for Lurcher pup please...

[Guest Buttermilk]

I think the issue is that whilst most of the time it's fine if she put up a full grown, healthy rabbit and ran it full out across the field she could do some bone/ligament/muscle damage as she has not fully developed yet. It's like there is no problem taking your 5 year old to the jungle gym, but if you took it to a real gym and got it lifting weights etc it could easily damage itself. Also they do not have the brains or experiance to judge obstacles and are much more likely to have a collision whilst on the chase.

 

There is also the case of over matching the pup against a quarry that can easily out run it or against other older, bigger dogs that always get to the quarry first. It can start to yap out of frustration, not all will, but once started it's a real problem.

 

Also with regard to leads. I'm not sure why folk believe that having a lead on is the sign of an untrained or untrusted dog, whilst having no lead is the sign of a truly trained / trusted dog. A lead is an important part of training, asserts your control and dominance etc, and is a helpful tool in lots of training situations. But then i suppose you are really letting your dogs hunt themselves and just watching rather than actively 'hunting' your dogs if that makes sense? If I didn't have my pup on the lead some of the time he would probably do himself damage, he's very VERY keen.

 

 

I like the analogy about the gym ....and I see exactly what you mean. It's more mooching about in the woods for us than having 'hard runs'....the obstacle thing is a very good point too....I don't like her to run too hard...they're all legs at that age.

And yes, you're right... I don't 'actively' hunt them, the two bitches have worked all their lives and don't need me to train them up. Fen is on the lead around traffic and in the village or if we're in town ....I agree it is a very helpful aid....but when we're down the fields/ woods she's off lead.

You've answered my question very comprehensively....so thanks...basically, the 'joining in' a bit won't hurt her...just make sure she doesn't run too hard or get too frustrated during the chase..? Is that about right?

[runforyourlife 361]

I think the issue is that whilst most of the time it's fine if she put up a full grown, healthy rabbit and ran it full out across the field she could do some bone/ligament/muscle damage as she has not fully developed yet. It's like there is no problem taking your 5 year old to the jungle gym, but if you took it to a real gym and got it lifting weights etc it could easily damage itself. Also they do not have the brains or experiance to judge obstacles and are much more likely to have a collision whilst on the chase.

 

There is also the case of over matching the pup against a quarry that can easily out run it or against other older, bigger dogs that always get to the quarry first. It can start to yap out of frustration, not all will, but once started it's a real problem.

 

Also with regard to leads. I'm not sure why folk believe that having a lead on is the sign of an untrained or untrusted dog, whilst having no lead is the sign of a truly trained / trusted dog. A lead is an important part of training, asserts your control and dominance etc, and is a helpful tool in lots of training situations. But then i suppose you are really letting your dogs hunt themselves and just watching rather than actively 'hunting' your dogs if that makes sense? If I didn't have my pup on the lead some of the time he would probably do himself damage, he's very VERY keen.

 

 

Spoke and typed to perfection.... when i tryed earlier, i was asked if i was getting angry, lol... You really hit the right notes there pal..

[runforyourlife 361]

I think the issue is that whilst most of the time it's fine if she put up a full grown, healthy rabbit and ran it full out across the field she could do some bone/ligament/muscle damage as she has not fully developed yet. It's like there is no problem taking your 5 year old to the jungle gym, but if you took it to a real gym and got it lifting weights etc it could easily damage itself. Also they do not have the brains or experiance to judge obstacles and are much more likely to have a collision whilst on the chase.

 

There is also the case of over matching the pup against a quarry that can easily out run it or against other older, bigger dogs that always get to the quarry first. It can start to yap out of frustration, not all will, but once started it's a real problem.

 

Also with regard to leads. I'm not sure why folk believe that having a lead on is the sign of an untrained or untrusted dog, whilst having no lead is the sign of a truly trained / trusted dog. A lead is an important part of training, asserts your control and dominance etc, and is a helpful tool in lots of training situations. But then i suppose you are really letting your dogs hunt themselves and just watching rather than actively 'hunting' your dogs if that makes sense? If I didn't have my pup on the lead some of the time he would probably do himself damage, he's very VERY keen.

 

 

I like the analogy about the gym ....and I see exactly what you mean. It's more mooching about in the woods for us than having 'hard runs'....the obstacle thing is a very good point too....I don't like her to run too hard...they're all legs at that age.

And yes, you're right... I don't 'actively' hunt them, the two bitches have worked all their lives and don't need me to train them up. Fen is on the lead around traffic and in the village or if we're in town ....I agree it is a very helpful aid....but when we're down the fields/ woods she's off lead.

You've answered my question very comprehensively....so thanks...basically, the 'joining in' a bit won't hurt her...just make sure she doesn't run too hard or get too frustrated during the chase..? Is that about right?

 

 

you are still trying to make your actions which you did before your question visable... why not let it be a pup, and play with puppy toys, rather than scent..Everybody lets their pups off the lead. I was inplying that when your other dogs are hunting, your pup should be leaded up, and left to watch, learn and absorb the goings on.. Anyway ATB WITH YOUR PUP, SURE IT WILL BE AS GOOD AS YOUR OTHERS AS YOUR OBVIOUSLY CONCERNED ABOUT IT... Russ.

[Guest Buttermilk]

I think the issue is that whilst most of the time it's fine if she put up a full grown, healthy rabbit and ran it full out across the field she could do some bone/ligament/muscle damage as she has not fully developed yet. It's like there is no problem taking your 5 year old to the jungle gym, but if you took it to a real gym and got it lifting weights etc it could easily damage itself. Also they do not have the brains or experiance to judge obstacles and are much more likely to have a collision whilst on the chase.

 

There is also the case of over matching the pup against a quarry that can easily out run it or against other older, bigger dogs that always get to the quarry first. It can start to yap out of frustration, not all will, but once started it's a real problem.

 

Also with regard to leads. I'm not sure why folk believe that having a lead on is the sign of an untrained or untrusted dog, whilst having no lead is the sign of a truly trained / trusted dog. A lead is an important part of training, asserts your control and dominance etc, and is a helpful tool in lots of training situations. But then i suppose you are really letting your dogs hunt themselves and just watching rather than actively 'hunting' your dogs if that makes sense? If I didn't have my pup on the lead some of the time he would probably do himself damage, he's very VERY keen.

 

 

Spoke and typed to perfection.... when i tryed earlier, i was asked if i was getting angry, lol... You really hit the right notes there pal..

 

Come on Russ, don't be defensive....I just didn't agree with some of the stuff you said. No worries though.

[runforyourlife 361]

I think the issue is that whilst most of the time it's fine if she put up a full grown, healthy rabbit and ran it full out across the field she could do some bone/ligament/muscle damage as she has not fully developed yet. It's like there is no problem taking your 5 year old to the jungle gym, but if you took it to a real gym and got it lifting weights etc it could easily damage itself. Also they do not have the brains or experiance to judge obstacles and are much more likely to have a collision whilst on the chase.

 

There is also the case of over matching the pup against a quarry that can easily out run it or against other older, bigger dogs that always get to the quarry first. It can start to yap out of frustration, not all will, but once started it's a real problem.

 

Also with regard to leads. I'm not sure why folk believe that having a lead on is the sign of an untrained or untrusted dog, whilst having no lead is the sign of a truly trained / trusted dog. A lead is an important part of training, asserts your control and dominance etc, and is a helpful tool in lots of training situations. But then i suppose you are really letting your dogs hunt themselves and just watching rather than actively 'hunting' your dogs if that makes sense? If I didn't have my pup on the lead some of the time he would probably do himself damage, he's very VERY keen.

 

 

Spoke and typed to perfection.... when i tryed earlier, i was asked if i was getting angry, lol... You really hit the right notes there pal..

 

Come on Russ, don't be defensive....I just didn't agree with some of the stuff you said. No worries though.

 

 

Thats fine.... but there wasnt many, it was only basic stuff. You want it to work at 4 mths then fair enough kate, i would never get in the way of owner and pup, if i am ever out with someone who has a pup, i never say a word to it, thats what the master is thier for ... Have fun. x

[Guest Buttermilk]

I think the issue is that whilst most of the time it's fine if she put up a full grown, healthy rabbit and ran it full out across the field she could do some bone/ligament/muscle damage as she has not fully developed yet. It's like there is no problem taking your 5 year old to the jungle gym, but if you took it to a real gym and got it lifting weights etc it could easily damage itself. Also they do not have the brains or experiance to judge obstacles and are much more likely to have a collision whilst on the chase.

 

There is also the case of over matching the pup against a quarry that can easily out run it or against other older, bigger dogs that always get to the quarry first. It can start to yap out of frustration, not all will, but once started it's a real problem.

 

Also with regard to leads. I'm not sure why folk believe that having a lead on is the sign of an untrained or untrusted dog, whilst having no lead is the sign of a truly trained / trusted dog. A lead is an important part of training, asserts your control and dominance etc, and is a helpful tool in lots of training situations. But then i suppose you are really letting your dogs hunt themselves and just watching rather than actively 'hunting' your dogs if that makes sense? If I didn't have my pup on the lead some of the time he would probably do himself damage, he's very VERY keen.

 

 

Spoke and typed to perfection.... when i tryed earlier, i was asked if i was getting angry, lol... You really hit the right notes there pal..

 

Come on Russ, don't be defensive....I just didn't agree with some of the stuff you said. No worries though.

 

 

Thats fine.... but there wasnt many, it was only basic stuff. You want it to work at 4 mths then fair enough kate, i would never get in the way of owner and pup, if i am ever out with someone who has a pup, i never say a word to it, thats what the master is thier for ... Have fun. x

 

 

Thanks... and I really do appreciate your input, really....but you're missing my point. I don't 'want' her to work necessarily....she just really wants to join in and I was trying to find out what you chaps thought about it. Should I let her, what are the pitfalls etc....do you see? She's very much a puppy and is treated like a baby, but she's incredibly interested in rabbiting and I thought it would be good to ask for thoughts and advice....

[runforyourlife 361]

and that is all we have given you, everybody who has posted... And it is basically "no"...

[Guest Buttermilk]

and that is all we have given you, everybody who has posted... And it is basically "no"...

 

Thanks Russ.....it's just that some people give much better and more comprehensive advice than others.

Try not to get so worked up when people don't agree with you 100% .....you always bicker over petty things, you remind me of my Auntie Agnes....

[Irish Lurcher 1,013]

and that is all we have given you, everybody who has posted... And it is basically "no"...

 

Thanks Russ.....it's just that some people give much better and more comprehensive advice than others.

Try not to get so worked up when people don't agree with you 100% .....you always bicker over petty things, you remind me of my Auntie Agnes....

 

 

Mrs Doubtfire

[herdwick 52]

My bitch is almost 12 months old.

When I got her, last november at 8 weeks old I limited her to a short (5-10 mins) walk, twice a day. Apart from lead training, she ran free with my 4 russells. At 4 months old she was getting a bit more of a run, but still not too much.

In april however, I turned my cattle out. Just under 7 months she was coming round with me and the terriers while I checked cattle and sheep twice a day. She was then getting 1/2 to 3/4 hour free range twice a day.

She will be 1 year old tomorrow, has caught 9 rabbits herself and has turned quite a few back into the terrier pack.

I regard her as a fit healthy lurcher.

She had her puppyhood, but learnt a lot from running loose with terriers every day.

I dont feel that she had more than she could cope with, and she certainly enjoys hersef.

I did worry about her running too much, too young but there is quite a difference between a pup that has freedom to run about in the garden all day, and one that is shut in a kennel all day, and only gets out for an hour a day.

[malc1 544]

im a big beliver in starting them young i started mine at 3 and a half months never had a problem look at wild animals they start young fox cubs are cast out young as soon as wilder beast are born they have to run

[Casso 1,261]

The one thing i would say about taking pups out is, management , and looking out for problems before they arise, Saw a beautiful young pup completly fecked up , because he got a couple of blasts of a electric fence, would probably have been ok if he was a couple of months older but at such an early stage , every little incident is massively reinforced in the pups mind, it got to a stage with this pup , where he wouldn't go to within 5 metres of any wire , electric or not, Its not to say that it will happen with your pup,,but any mistakes or negative happenings out , leave a lasting impression in a young pups mind,,

[Guest Buttermilk]

The one thing i would say about taking pups out is, management , and looking out for problems before they arise, Saw a beautiful young pup completly fecked up , because he got a couple of blasts of a electric fence, would probably have been ok if he was a couple of months older but at such an early stage , every little incident is massively reinforced in the pups mind, it got to a stage with this pup , where he wouldn't go to within 5 metres of any wire , electric or not, Its not to say that it will happen with your pup,,but any mistakes or negative happenings out , leave a lasting impression in a young pups mind,,

 

 

Gosh...that's horrible, poor little mite. Good point....

[Guest Buttermilk]

My bitch is almost 12 months old.

When I got her, last november at 8 weeks old I limited her to a short (5-10 mins) walk, twice a day. Apart from lead training, she ran free with my 4 russells. At 4 months old she was getting a bit more of a run, but still not too much.

In april however, I turned my cattle out. Just under 7 months she was coming round with me and the terriers while I checked cattle and sheep twice a day. She was then getting 1/2 to 3/4 hour free range twice a day.

She will be 1 year old tomorrow, has caught 9 rabbits herself and has turned quite a few back into the terrier pack.

I regard her as a fit healthy lurcher.

She had her puppyhood, but learnt a lot from running loose with terriers every day.

I dont feel that she had more than she could cope with, and she certainly enjoys hersef.

I did worry about her running too much, too young but there is quite a difference between a pup that has freedom to run about in the garden all day, and one that is shut in a kennel all day, and only gets out for an hour a day.

 

....actually that's an excellent point about the difference between a pup having freedom to run around all day and one shut in a kennel and let out for an hour a day.... I never thought of that....Fen has total freedom of the house and garden most of the time, she comes with me in the car, with the horses and everything. Subsequently, when we do go out down the fields and woods....she doesn't go mad and is very 'laissez faire' about it all, she just mooches along. Maybe that makes a difference....if she was penned up all day, she'd go bananas when she did get out and maybe be a bit more 'hyper'...?

[Ideation 8,216]

It's all fine until there is a problem if that makes sense. She WILL learn a lot mooching about with the others but you just have to be aware that each time you go out she is NOT equipped with the necessary mental and physical attributes to cope with many of the situations which could easily arise, and if they do. . . .. . she may escape from it unscathed. . . . .. but she may not. And if she didn't, then it would all suddenly seem a bit foolish. It's not a case of keeping her on a lead or in a kennel all the time OR having her free running all the time. . . . .. you can easily structure both in. My pup has been out and about with me since he was 7.5 weeks old, mooching about, but if there are other bigger, older dogs present and we get to a bit of cover where there is likely to be game, i'd pup pup on lead and make him watch what the others are doing. Although he was keen and in his mind capable, he stood the risk of either getting in the way and getting a knock, or getting on something that broke from cover and being run ragged. Now at 6.5 months, he is left off the lead most of the time to learn by doing, but still i keep him away from areas where there are plenty of game, which at this time of year, with the amount of cover, is very elusive on our ground and not fair on a pup and concentrate on letting him mooch about in areas or situations where i feel it is more weighted in his favour. As for the comparison with wild animals. . . .. .. . have you seen the survival rate of young wild predators? Not a very good comparison is it. . . . a lurcher is NOT a wild animal so cant really be treated as such.