when to start young hounds?

[horsebox 0]

just looking for advice and opinions on when to start young hounds. Been workings hounds a good few years now but always working hounds that were bought in, decided to breed our own last year.The pups are a year old now, a bit green as to what to expect from them and when, as these will be the first hounds we have started ourselves.Is there a right or wrong time to start them ? does the breed of hound come into it do some start earlier than others whatever the breed? is there an age you should give up on them?? etc,,,

 

The pups are from a welsh type bitch and a harrier x foxhound dog!

 

I would appreciate any pointers from more experienced men.

 

Thanks.

[darencross 72]

hi mate i would of had them out from 6 months.

but some hunts dont start young hound untill 12 to 18 months old

so now would be a good time to get them out with 1 or 2 older hounds that really

now there job and take it from there.

[thefootman 17]

If the hounds are well bred instinct will more or less start them for you, the only real training you will have to do is in relation to putting some manners on them, teaching what not to hunt and to come back to you when the hunt is over. Though it would be a bad idea to let the pups start together on their own as any bad habits they might be inclined towards will only get worse. If you start them with a couple of old hounds the older ones will keep them in check.

 

With foot harriers the northern packs all start them at around six months old, usualy letting the pups out late in the evening when the pack has slowed and the pups have more chance of getting in on the action. According to the old lads a mature bitch can stand a full days hunting at around 7 months plus and a dog at around 10 months old. The general consensus is that if a bitch has not started by about 14 months you are chasing a lost cause whereas you can keep faith in a dog up until about 18 months to 2 years old after that forget about it. I am not sure what other huntsmen think of this but in my experience it is generally true. I have been told that the southern foot packs in Cork or Kerry start their hounds later than us with hounds not really seeing any action until almost a year old. Not sure how true this is so if any lads from down south can verify thanks. Don't give any slow maturing pup too much hard hunting either as it can sour them, but if the pups are all around a year old they should be physically strong enough to handle most days.

 

If you are having problems starting any of them try a bit of night hunting with them as the scent is often better at night and there is more game on the move. If you have a safe country like a forestry plantation or something leave the late starter out with a few old experienced ones and head home for the night, often the fact that they have no other choice but to hunt makes the penny drop and they never look back.

[ciaranmcman 23]

keep them in same pen as ur workers helps them follow on with the pack! ther a good age to be out ul find it better for them when the covers died an not so thick

[fmwtc 12]

Leave young hounds out all night I wouldn do that at all how can you be sure they won't chase stock after all they are pups most and as for starting pups I'd leave em a lot longer than fourteen month before writing anything off the the dogs bones will not of develop full even at that age and to expect pups of seven month old to run with an adult pack is sheer stupidity all hounds enter at different ages same as any dog you reap what you sow but in my eyes sow a seed to soon and it wither quicker after all you wouldn't work a terrier at seven month or run a lurcher at hares at the same age would you I don't care what anyone says a fox is one fast animal in the right circumstances and expecting a pup to hunt one for most of the day is sheer lunacy

[Ashover rabbit dogs 76]

Leave young hounds out all night I wouldn do that at all how can you be sure they won't chase stock after all they are pups most and as for starting pups I'd leave em a lot longer than fourteen month before writing anything off the the dogs bones will not of develop full even at that age and to expect pups of seven month old to run with an adult pack is sheer stupidity all hounds enter at different ages same as any dog you reap what you sow but in my eyes sow a seed to soon and it wither quicker after all you wouldn't work a terrier at seven month or run a lurcher at hares at the same age would you I don't care what anyone says a fox is one fast animal in the right circumstances and expecting a pup to hunt one for most of the day is sheer lunacy

[Johnny85 50]

With most hounds, you should be whelping your bitches by the last day of the season, i.e around paddy's day. At 12-16 weeks they are sent out to walk for about 6 to 8 months. Here they learn about the countryside and developing there nose. Once back in from walk, they learn about exercise, couples and feeding. Then The following August when they are 17-18 months start them then. At this time you can go out at dawn with they dew. Ideally find a litter of cubs and scatter them. Hopefullt kill one or two and teach the pups and at the same time scatter the litter for the season. Teach the hounds what a fox is, and teach the fox what hounds are. The benefit of cubbing is you can have a few hours hunting and you have rest of the day free to look for any missing young hounds.

Good Hunting

Johnny

[thefootman 17]

It would be very rare that a pup of 7/8 months would be allowed to hunt with a pack for a full day but it does happen. The best bitch I ever had hunted from 6 months. She was exceptional and was brought on "set" hunts (thats a kinda of competitive hunt with another pack) at 8 months and was leading packs of hounds at 10 months, she won a drag hunt at 14 months (thats a hound trail). She hunted up until 10 years old and died of natural causes at about 12 so the early start in her hunting life did her little or no harm. One of the first hunts I ever attended was in 1986 when I was 10. I was told by my dad to bring two strong 6 month old dog pups over to where the pack was hunting at 2.30 to give them some experience. When I arrived over the pack flushed a hare in full view up past the hill I was standing on with the two pups, who initialy ran the other way in fright, but by the second ring instinct had kicked in and they closed to the pack. Both those dogs hunted up until they were 9 and 10 years old so the early start did them no harm either. Thats just a few examples that stick out in my mind. It is quite possible that our foot harriers mature faster than foxhounds/fellhounds/beagles as different breeds do mature at different rates. But then toughness and gameness are the two most important qualities in a hound to us. We would only breed of a dog/bitch that will hunt at least two (or prefereably three) heavy days in a row, so toughness is a breed trait. No offence to anyone but we just wouldn't keep a foxhound as we have found that if you hunt them 3 or 4 days a week, as a lot of the packs up here do, they just break down or quit eventually.

 

As for hunting at night, its not something you should do on a regular basis, but as a last resort with a hound that is at least 14 months plus. By that stage they should know the difference between right and wrong and if they don't then you are not doing your job right. You would only let hounds stay out in a safe area with no busy road, where all livestock are closed in and as few residential properties as possible. Our pack has been using a large conifer plantation of close to 1000 acres for night hunting for about the last 40 years and the world has not come crashing down around us so far.

[dEs 6]

One mans medicine is another mans poison. I dont think theres any best set way but everyone has they're own and if its working for them why change.

 

I can gurantee theres men reading ''the footmans'' replys saying to themselves ''wtf'' as it aint text book English foxhunting stuff but there you go. Hunting aint text book. And hunting aint English.

 

At this time in my life i still dont know whats right and whats wrong.. but i will say the best, hardiest, gamest hounds ive seen are the ones who enter quickly and WANT to hunt.. they're not faffing about at 16 months pissing in bushes. And what i have found is a late starter can more often than not be a lazy, downbeat one when the going gets tough during a hard weeks hunting. And 2 days aint a hard one

 

The best hounds ive ever saw where kept and hunted something along the lines of ''the footsmans'' No big names. No big ego. No fancy shite.. and i'll admit that when talking to the fella my eyes sort of widened and mouth slighty dropped. Not conventional methods. But boyo they could hunt. And he sure as fook wouldn't have kept a foxhound Just to add these hounds had nothing what so ever to do with me.

 

So like i say lads.. each to there own. I wouldnt go jumping on ''the footmans'' head just because you dont think it sounds right. Everyman knows his line and should hounds. Also i dont know ''the footman'' from adam or eve. All the best.

 

PS. There was once an old timer who told me '' if a pups pishing with its leg up before its been 'untin.. it aint been out early enough''. Thats one for you ''the footman''

[thefootman 17]

Good Man Des. Always listen to the Old Timers as they have probably seen more than you can imagine. By the way where did you come across lads hunting their hounds for a week, how many days in a row did they do? Three days in a row would be as much as we would do, after that we would have to give the hounds a days break or you would start to pick up to many injuries, any hounds that are hunting well on the third evening would be considered decent hounds. We would consider a well hunted pack to be at least three days a week, Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday, any decent pack of hounds should be well able to stand up to that schedule for a season.

 

I do not claim to have all the answers, anyone who does should be ignored straight away. I only initialy replied to the post as it was an Irish poster asking about hounds with harrier blood in them. In Ireland when you use the term harrier it usualy means an Irish foot harrier so I was giving him a few tips from that perspective should the pups follow that line as that is the breed of hound myself and my family have hunted for generations, so we have some knowledge of it. If the pups are following the Foxhound/Welshound lines then then Horsebox would be as well listen to some of the other lads on here. By the way Horsebox have you been out with the pups yet and if so how are they getting on?

 

I suppose how we start and hunt our hounds may seem strange to someone from a mounted pack in England. We would not take a hound of a mounted pack in Ireland as we think they are too soft and not game enough and the mounted lads would not take a hound of us as they think they are too independent and too hard to control. But each to their own, the different traditions in hunting are one of its main attractions. One thing I would ask is would lads hunting other breeds see as big a difference between starting dogs and bitches as we would? I have been thinking about it and I cannot think of one late starting bitch that we had that ever worked out well, but we have had a few dog hounds that did not really start right until over 18 months old who turned out to be cracking tough hounds.

[Johnny85 50]

I take August off and hunt everyday and most days twice a day with many packs. I often find that some of the hounds that fly on their very first day, give up by Christmas. Likewise some hounds slow to start turn out to be some of the best. You will always have no starts but thats animals for ya. We get alot of draft hounds either after the puppy show or fist week cubbing. 8 times out of 10 these will be good hounds. We hunt a pack of Harriers, Old English and small bit of Welsh blood. The harrier as footman says is a little wilder. This is great when you are not up with them, they can cast wide and pick up the line. However sometimes they can waste a lot of time for you by over running the line. We find the old english are the best to stay at a mark. This mix of type of hound works well for us. We are getting good hunting and killking foxes, so everyman to himself, we are happy with our system at the moment.