something strange is my bitch ill please help

[kevin from bristol 95]

Did they not ask for a urine sample - as thats the one of the first things they should have tested realy.

 

no they didn't just blood sample

[skycat 6,174]

Let us know what the vet says: could be a kidney infection, have they tested for pyometra. Could be too much unnacustomed exercise which can lead to something the old boys used to call coursing thirst. This made the dog drink and pee like mad when it wasn't properly conditioned (got fit enough) to do the running. The kidneys' way of trying to flush out the toxins. If you don't get a satisfactory answer from your vet then see a greyhound vet in case it is fitness related.

[sandymere 8,263]

From the history you give there are a few possibilities, diabetes would be one, but it would be unlikely to improve and one would expect a raised blood glucose on the tests they took. I would still keep it in consideration and if there is any further episodes get the vet to take a blood glucose after the dog has been starved for 12 hours, it can has water during this period. With diabetes the glucose builds up in the blood so the body takes on more water to dilute it and to allow it to be passed out in the urine hence increased thirst and urine output. At the same time the body has to burn fat and protein to replace the glucose it cannot use and this means an increase in the waste products which are acidotic so turn the blood more acidic causing increased breathing as it blows off carbon dioxide to compensate, CO2 in the blood is acidic. But again it wouldn't just happen after working.

 

The bloods would have also been checked for any infection plus liver and kidney function and so are better than a urine dip. As you say the bloods were ok it would be expected that at that point the kidney function was ok and any infection would have showed. It may have been a water infection, various possibilities, that had passed and this again would likely cause increased urine output.

 

Skycat suggest coursing thirst and I would also suggest this could well have been a possibility as it happens after running and as you say she puts everything into it. This is a term to describe exertional Rhabdomyolysis which is where the body is over stressed and muscle breakdown exceeds the body’s ability to deal with it. If the dog was just starting work after the summers rest, or had run very hard then it is worth considering. Basically the muscle cells break down and release their contents which can cause kidney failure in the longer term and death in the worst cases. So never run the dog to hard, build up gradually when increasing work and monitor for some weight loss and drop in condition over the next week or two. Monitor the urine after work and if it is reddish then that is the cell products staining the urine and a sign that the dog has pushed to hard for its fitness and every time it causes some kidney damage and perhaps full blown rhabdomyolysis. Good conditioning prior to work is the answer and stopping before the dog has done to much. It's not diet related so a good mixed diet is fine.

[bristol tim 135]

was it a local vet? bristol?

[kevin from bristol 95]

was it a local vet? bristol?

 

stoke lane [bANNED TEXT] its part of some group used to be called michael gibb there crap

[kevin from bristol 95]

From the history you give there are a few possibilities, diabetes would be one, but it would be unlikely to improve and one would expect a raised blood glucose on the tests they took. I would still keep it in consideration and if there is any further episodes get the vet to take a blood glucose after the dog has been starved for 12 hours, it can has water during this period. With diabetes the glucose builds up in the blood so the body takes on more water to dilute it and to allow it to be passed out in the urine hence increased thirst and urine output. At the same time the body has to burn fat and protein to replace the glucose it cannot use and this means an increase in the waste products which are acidotic so turn the blood more acidic causing increased breathing as it blows off carbon dioxide to compensate, CO2 in the blood is acidic. But again it wouldn't just happen after working.

 

The bloods would have also been checked for any infection plus liver and kidney function and so are better than a urine dip. As you say the bloods were ok it would be expected that at that point the kidney function was ok and any infection would have showed. It may have been a water infection, various possibilities, that had passed and this again would likely cause increased urine output.

 

Skycat suggest coursing thirst and I would also suggest this could well have been a possibility as it happens after running and as you say she puts everything into it. This is a term to describe exertional Rhabdomyolysis which is where the body is over stressed and muscle breakdown exceeds the body's ability to deal with it. If the dog was just starting work after the summers rest, or had run very hard then it is worth considering. Basically the muscle cells break down and release their contents which can cause kidney failure in the longer term and death in the worst cases. So never run the dog to hard, build up gradually when increasing work and monitor for some weight loss and drop in condition over the next week or two. Monitor the urine after work and if it is reddish then that is the cell products staining the urine and a sign that the dog has pushed to hard for its fitness and every time it causes some kidney damage and perhaps full blown rhabdomyolysis. Good conditioning prior to work is the answer and stopping before the dog has done to much. It's not diet related so a good mixed diet is fine.

 

sound like thats what it is i had been getting her fitt over a couple of weeks before i ran her maybe not long enough for the work she put in , shes broken coated and is molting like mad so looks a bit rough at the moment the vet said she looked under weight but shes allways weighed around 18 kg and came in at 17 and a half but had been having alot of exercise for a few weeks previous i can't understand it but you sound the closest so far , do you think i should leave her just having walks for a bit until her condition inproves ? i don't think i should carry on working her a the moment becase like i say she 110% every run and may do more damage than good

[kevin from bristol 95]

Let us know what the vet says: could be a kidney infection, have they tested for pyometra. Could be too much unnacustomed exercise which can lead to something the old boys used to call coursing thirst. This made the dog drink and pee like mad when it wasn't properly conditioned (got fit enough) to do the running. The kidneys' way of trying to flush out the toxins. If you don't get a satisfactory answer from your vet then see a greyhound vet in case it is fitness related.

 

do you know of a greyhound vet in the bristol area

[bristol tim 135]

Let us know what the vet says: could be a kidney infection, have they tested for pyometra. Could be too much unnacustomed exercise which can lead to something the old boys used to call coursing thirst. This made the dog drink and pee like mad when it wasn't properly conditioned (got fit enough) to do the running. The kidneys' way of trying to flush out the toxins. If you don't get a satisfactory answer from your vet then see a greyhound vet in case it is fitness related.

 

do you know of a greyhound vet in the bristol area

try swindon dog track? gibbs is bollocks, try winterbourne vets, mark ashbury good vet and cheap

[kevin from bristol 95]

Let us know what the vet says: could be a kidney infection, have they tested for pyometra. Could be too much unnacustomed exercise which can lead to something the old boys used to call coursing thirst. This made the dog drink and pee like mad when it wasn't properly conditioned (got fit enough) to do the running. The kidneys' way of trying to flush out the toxins. If you don't get a satisfactory answer from your vet then see a greyhound vet in case it is fitness related.

 

do you know of a greyhound vet in the bristol area

try swindon dog track? gibbs is bollocks, try winterbourne vets, mark ashbury good vet and cheap

 

 

i'll give it a try mate thanks

[sandymere 8,263]

I would monitor for a week or so to see if there is a drop in weight, if so the start training from scratch ie very slowly. If no drop in weight then a fortnight rest then start work slowly with a few easy sessions and see how she goes. Below is a copy of a post I did back along on this subject.

Regards s

 

A Run To Far.

 

It’s not uncommon for a dog, or ourselves for that matter, to be a little stiff and sore for a few days after a hard run this is often described a delayed onset muscle soreness or DOMS. DOMS is fairly predictable and not usually to serious a problem that is in all likelyhood due to inflammation of the muscles from damage to a small proportion of muscle fibers and the resulting pain this causes. More worrying are recently a couple of instances where owners of lurchers have noticed their dogs showing signs of severe muscle soreness and or cramps with urinating what appears to be blood the day after a hard session. This is often followed by a drop in condition for a time after wards to a greater or lesser degree. A common suggestion as to the cause of this seems to be a build up of lactic acid but in light of modern thinking, discounting lactic acid as the bad boy and high-lighting its role as an important energy source, this theory doesn’t seem to hold water. So what could be going on?

One idea is that the dark brown/red urine is not due just to blood alone but also the contents of damaged muscle cells, myoglobin and creatine kinase, that are released into the blood stream and this is known as rhabdomyolysis (RMS). When the released myoglobin is excreted by the kidneys it gives the urine a dark brown colour. The difference between DOMS and RMS is the extent of the muscle damage involved and the effect this has on the kidneys. High levels of myoglobin can cause kidney failure to the extent that long term damage or even death is a possibility.

So why does this happen? RMS was first described in the blitz when people trapped under fallen buildings suffered extensive crush type injuries which lead to major muscle damage; this led to the release of large amounts of the muscle cell contents. Since then it has been described in a variety of species with a genetic link in some breeds of both horses and dogs. But these lurchers had not suffered any such injuries and sight hounds are rarely prone to genetic faults so how had they come to cause so much damage to their bodies? A strong possibility is suggested by looking at the background. In both cases the hounds had had long hard runs at the beginning of the season when they were at less than optimum preparedness and in truth they were both weekend warriors who may lack true working fitness even when at their best. This lack of fitness may have resulted in over exertion of some off the largest muscles in the body leading to extensive damage/breakdown and so exertional rhabdomyolysis.

Conditioned muscles in both humans and dogs are usually able to cope with exercise, unless there is a genetic variance, and the body has a variety of methods to protect itself against over exertion but sight hounds have been bred for generations to push the boundaries of the possible so bringing them nearer to the red line than most breeds. This ability to push the limits may mean that, if the incentive is right, they can cross the line when unfit to the extent that DOMS is extremely likely but also doing serious harm to their own bodies is a possibility. So what can we do to recognise treat and avoids these problems.

The main symptoms are severe muscle pain, cramping and altered gait with blood/very dark urine. Early recognition is important in the long term outcome. Your vet can check for chemicals in the urine and blood to confirm the diagnosis. And the vet is the best person to lead the treatment as depending on the extent of the problem intravenous fluids with powerful pain killers may be required. Appropriate management of renal function is the major concern but also the causative muscle breakdown needs to be addressed and a regime to rehabilitation and conditioning the dog to prevent future occurrences should be instigated. Good hydration is always of great importance as dehydration may increases the risk of muscle damage and post exercise will increase the strain on the kidneys. Also concentrated urine may well be very dark in the absence of any illness so muddying the waters some what.

Any dog that seems to be suffering exercise intolerance should always have a thorough check out with your veterinary surgeon to exclude any underlying heart, lung or systemic illness and check for any structural problems. A genetic predisposition to RMS may mean an animal needs special consideration as to it’s working ability but for normally fit and healthy dogs without any underlying problems then prevention is so much better than cure. Prevention means good preparation before work after a seasonal or injury enforced lay off plus regular top ups for the weekend warriors.

 

Cheer sandy.

[kevin from bristol 95]

you have been a great help and really know youre stuff ive had hunting dogs all my life and never seen this i'm gonna start from scratch next weekend and take it slow thanks alot

[kevin from bristol 95]

just to let you know shes looking better now and has just come into season haven't noticed anything else bad so fingers crossed shes back to her old self really

[Strong Stuff 2,171]

 

An excellent couple of posts there Sandy.

 

Have had a dog go down due to Exertional Rhabdomyolysis, wasn't expecting to save him if am honest, got him to vets and 4 days and £900 later he's still here but will only ever be an active pet now, he suffered long term damage to his kidneys.

 

I was going to say I wish I'd read your posts before it happened but I'm still 100% that he hadn't shown any signs of over exertion before he went down so am not sure I'd have thought it would have been that at the time.

 

Dog in question, surprisingly enough was a Bull X ............. and either through stupidity or tenacity he ran until he could run no more, almost permanently!

[sandymere 8,263]

Strong stuff at least you got the dog through it as many don't get taken to the vets till its too late, I know what the bull crosses are like, mine would happily run himself to death and would still be wagging his tail as he succumbed.

 

Kevin the closeness of the season may have added a little extra in that bitches run a little faster/harder just before their season which may have pushed her over the line more than normal. Glad she’s doing well.

Regards sandy.