Tomm Parr 30 Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) I'm sure i'll tread on someone's toes but here goes... I can't understand why anyone'd in the UK'd want one of those Kuttas (or Pit bulls, Tozas, Dogos, Filas etc). They are only good for fighting or hunting big game like deer or pigs. Now (as we all know) we aren't allowed to do any of that anymore in the UK. What's the point of having one over here, if you can't legally use/work them? I thought this site was for working dogs.... not status symbols.... why have a saluki x or bull x? we can only hunt rabbits and rats. Because lines of Salukis or bulls (or crosses) are sufficiently removed (in terms of time and breeding) from their original purpose (hunting big game and fighting) to be trainable for other quarry and no serious risk to humans. Eg. Dachshunds were bred for killing badgers, British bulldogs were bred for fighting bulls, Rotties and dobermans were used to hunt (in boarded-up town squares) convicted criminals in the Germany, Mastiffs/molossus types were bred as war dogs to attack infantry (!) a couple of thousand years ago. But they have since been bred away from those purposes, hence they are safe dogs. You can't do that with some dogs (like Kuttas, Pit bulls, Tozas, Dogos, Filas) because fighting/hunting big game is too recent in their historical makeup to remove the risk to humans. Thats why some dogs are banned. In fact, there has been legal discussion whether to include other breeds (such as Kuttas) on the DDogs Act. The only reason aren't weren't considered initially was because the pen pushers who made the law hadn't heard of them. I ain't having a go. Just don't see the point of a specialised dog that you can't legally use. Toby1066 has hit the nail on the head anyway. The ad has been removed from epupz and the video removed from this thread. Edited April 2, 2011 by Tomm Parr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tomm Parr 30 Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 I'm sure i'll tread on someone's toes but here goes... I can't understand why anyone'd in the UK'd want one of those Kuttas (or Pit bulls, Tozas, Dogos, Filas etc). They are only good for fighting or hunting big game like deer or pigs. Now (as we all know) we aren't allowed to do any of that anymore in the UK. What's the point of having one over here, if you can't legally use/work them? I thought this site was for working dogs.... not status symbols.... why have a saluki x or bull x? we can only hunt rabbits and rats. Because lines of Salukis or bulls (or crosses) are sufficiently removed (in terms of time and breeding) from their original purpose (hunting big game and fighting) to be trainable for other quarry and no serious risk to humans. Eg. Dachshunds were bred for killing badgers, British bulldogs were bred for fighting bulls, Rotties and dobermans were used to hunt (in boarded-up town squares) convicted criminals in the Germany, Mastiffs/molossus types were bred as war dogs to attack infantry (!) a couple of thousand years ago. But they have since been bred away from those purposes, hence they are safe dogs. You can't do that with some dogs (like Kuttas, Pit bulls, Tozas, Dogos, Filas) because fighting/hunting big game is too recent in their historical makeup to remove the risk to humans. Thats why some dogs are banned. In fact, there has been legal discussion whether to include other breeds (such as Kuttas) on the DDogs Act. The only reason aren't weren't considered initially was because the pen pushers who made the law hadn't heard of them. I ain't having a go. Just don't see the point of a specialised dog that you can't legally use. Toby1066 has hit the nail on the head anyway. The ad has been removed from epupz and the video removed from this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bird 9,873 Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 nice looking dogs but they still dont come close till a good pit Tosa were supposed to be good, but still not as good as game bred apbt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toby1066 413 Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 tosas are ear sucking tubs of lard mate google videos on them none of these breeds would have been a match for the apbt back when these things were legal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shepp 2,285 Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 The only use I can see for this breed in the UK is turning large quantities of food into shit and being a f**k.ing liability to the owner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toby1066 413 Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 spot on mate Quote Link to post Share on other sites
blan89 159 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 I'm sure i'll tread on someone's toes but here goes... I can't understand why anyone'd in the UK'd want one of those Kuttas (or Pit bulls, Tozas, Dogos, Filas etc). They are only good for fighting or hunting big game like deer or pigs. Now (as we all know) we aren't allowed to do any of that anymore in the UK. What's the point of having one over here, if you can't legally use/work them? I thought this site was for working dogs.... not status symbols.... why have a saluki x or bull x? we can only hunt rabbits and rats. Because lines of Salukis or bulls (or crosses) are sufficiently removed (in terms of time and breeding) from their original purpose (hunting big game and fighting) to be trainable for other quarry and no serious risk to humans. Eg. Dachshunds were bred for killing badgers, British bulldogs were bred for fighting bulls, Rotties and dobermans were used to hunt (in boarded-up town squares) convicted criminals in the Germany, Mastiffs/molossus types were bred as war dogs to attack infantry (!) a couple of thousand years ago. But they have since been bred away from those purposes, hence they are safe dogs. You can't do that with some dogs (like Kuttas, Pit bulls, Tozas, Dogos, Filas) because fighting/hunting big game is too recent in their historical makeup to remove the risk to humans. Thats why some dogs are banned. In fact, there has been legal discussion whether to include other breeds (such as Kuttas) on the DDogs Act. The only reason aren't weren't considered initially was because the pen pushers who made the law hadn't heard of them. I ain't having a go. Just don't see the point of a specialised dog that you can't legally use. Toby1066 has hit the nail on the head anyway. The ad has been removed from epupz and the video removed from this thread. LOL dog aggression is completely different to human aggression,thats plain to see in a lot of dogs not just fighting dogs. your reply will probably just piss me off so i wont re-open this thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scalesntails 118 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 I'm sure i'll tread on someone's toes but here goes... I can't understand why anyone'd in the UK'd want one of those Kuttas (or Pit bulls, Tozas, Dogos, Filas etc). They are only good for fighting or hunting big game like deer or pigs. Now (as we all know) we aren't allowed to do any of that anymore in the UK. What's the point of having one over here, if you can't legally use/work them? I thought this site was for working dogs.... not status symbols.... why have a saluki x or bull x? we can only hunt rabbits and rats. Because lines of Salukis or bulls (or crosses) are sufficiently removed (in terms of time and breeding) from their original purpose (hunting big game and fighting) to be trainable for other quarry and no serious risk to humans. Eg. Dachshunds were bred for killing badgers, British bulldogs were bred for fighting bulls, Rotties and dobermans were used to hunt (in boarded-up town squares) convicted criminals in the Germany, Mastiffs/molossus types were bred as war dogs to attack infantry (!) a couple of thousand years ago. But they have since been bred away from those purposes, hence they are safe dogs. You can't do that with some dogs (like Kuttas, Pit bulls, Tozas, Dogos, Filas) because fighting/hunting big game is too recent in their historical makeup to remove the risk to humans. Thats why some dogs are banned. In fact, there has been legal discussion whether to include other breeds (such as Kuttas) on the DDogs Act. The only reason aren't weren't considered initially was because the pen pushers who made the law hadn't heard of them. I ain't having a go. Just don't see the point of a specialised dog that you can't legally use. Toby1066 has hit the nail on the head anyway. The ad has been removed from epupz and the video removed from this thread. LOL dog aggression is completely different to human aggression,thats plain to see in a lot of dogs not just fighting dogs. your reply will probably just piss me off so i wont re-open this thread. I have some experience working with dangerous wild animals. Breeding out aggression to humans in any species is absolute rubbish. Captive breeding does reduce it but from the 1st animal born in captivity to the millionth there is no difference. The difference comes from humans learning more successful training techniques for the species the longer it's kept in captivity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bulldogman 55 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 The reason some dogs are banned is because of knee jerk legislation following a serious attack by a pit bull type dog on an indian girl Rukshan Khan. The dogs listed on the DDA were mostly unheard of, with the exception of the apbt but were listed in The World of Fighting Dogsby Carl Semencic and therefore the politicians and RSPCA saw fit to ban the breeds not the deeds. They grasped at straws and given the fact that at the time there was only one dopey Tosa in the UK, no fila's or dogo's it was and still is a stupid and ill thought out law. Most well bred apbt's were never man aggressive and had to be made so much as any other large working breed that has been used for hunting and/or man work. The prey drive for hunting is generally not associated with man aggression, I have an american bulldog that will hunt anything on four legs given the chance but this does not cross over into chasing people? The Kutta will probably replace the presa as the dog of choice for the "street" people but its probaby no better or worse than them having pits/ pit x's, fila's, dogos or presa's. These are all capable breeds which are deadly in the wrong hands. If we are going to only be allowed dogs for legal quarry, whats next we all got to drive a toyota prius thats limited to 70mph???? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tomm Parr 30 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 The reason some dogs are banned is because of knee jerk legislation following a serious attack by a pit bull type dog on an indian girl Rukshan Khan. The dogs listed on the DDA were mostly unheard of, with the exception of the apbt but were listed in The World of Fighting Dogsby Carl Semencic and therefore the politicians and RSPCA saw fit to ban the breeds not the deeds. They grasped at straws and given the fact that at the time there was only one dopey Tosa in the UK, no fila's or dogo's it was and still is a stupid and ill thought out law. Most well bred apbt's were never man aggressive and had to be made so much as any other large working breed that has been used for hunting and/or man work. The prey drive for hunting is generally not associated with man aggression, I have an american bulldog that will hunt anything on four legs given the chance but this does not cross over into chasing people? The Kutta will probably replace the presa as the dog of choice for the "street" people but its probaby no better or worse than them having pits/ pit x's, fila's, dogos or presa's. These are all capable breeds which are deadly in the wrong hands. If we are going to only be allowed dogs for legal quarry, whats next we all got to drive a toyota prius thats limited to 70mph???? ?!? You've missed my point: My post states why THEY did what they did. Not whether i agree or disagree. I was empathising with their point of view, not sympathising with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tomm Parr 30 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 dog aggression is completely different to human aggression,thats plain to see in a lot of dogs not just fighting dogs. your reply will probably just piss me off so i wont re-open this thread. I have some experience working with dangerous wild animals. Breeding out aggression to humans in any species is absolute rubbish. Captive breeding does reduce it but from the 1st animal born in captivity to the millionth there is no difference. The difference comes from humans learning more successful training techniques for the species the longer it's kept in captivity. Well, having studied animal genetics and domestication in particular, I can assure you that it is possible to breed out aggression from animals. Similar to breeding dogs for aggression to create the dogs in question (only allowing the stronger, aggresive ones to breed) you can work backwards (allowing only the timid or weaker ones to breed). Its similar to what the Kennel club did with so many working breeds (allowing every dog to breed, rather than only the ones who deserve to because of the standard of their work). Anyway, i wasn't saying certain breeds are aggressive to humans, i was referring to the perception that they are aggressive to humans, by the lawmakers who kneejerked the DDA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,095 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) Why would anybody try to breed aggression out of dogs bred for aggression .....IF people purchased the correct breed and type of dog for the use they wanted a dog for in the first place then none of this would be necessary.....unfortunately some folk need a game bred fighting dog to walk through the local town centre shopping arcade or a 200lb foaming at the mouth beast to protect their widescreen tv and stereo !! You dont need a sledgehammer to break a crisp packet.....sadly dogs are the victims of big egos and small brains ! Edited April 3, 2011 by gnasher16 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chartpolski 23,478 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 I don't understand the "Ancient" part of the name ? Weren't Bully Kutta's the result of cross breeding Bull & Terrier type dogs, taken to India by Officers of the British Raj, with local breeds, back in the 1800's ? Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rikjd 8 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 its not so much people having dogs they dont have a use for its more people having dogs who they dont understand, its in a fighting dogs genes to fight if you understand that and accept that from day one you stand a chance of owning and training an obedient dog that wont fight but too many people see their friends with well trained dogs of this ilk and think its easier than what it actually is. Iv lost count of the number of people i know who just lack the basic consistency required to get anywhere then they come moaning saying they arent getting anywhere and dont like being told its their fault not the dogs. Ban stupid people not breeds?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bird 9,873 Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Why would anybody try to breed aggression out of dogs bred for aggression .....IF people purchased the correct breed and type of dog for the use they wanted a dog for in the first place then none of this would be necessary.....unfortunately some folk need a game bred fighting dog to walk through the local town centre shopping arcade or a 200lb foaming at the mouth beast to protect their widescreen tv and stereo !! You dont need a sledgehammer to break a crisp packet.....sadly dogs are the victims of big egos and small brains ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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