venison

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

If you read what Deker has wrote then you will see that hes right .I believe what hes saying is that paperwork is not a legal requirement to take deer to a dealer,although some paperwork has to be filled out to provide traceability of the carcass.

It is widely believed that every stalker needs the much criticised dsc 2 to be able to present a carcass via a hunter I.D to a dealer which is bullshit .All that is needed is a name, current address linked to the tag wrapped around the leg of the beast via the weight,where shot form.

Which basically makes a mockery of the dsc does it not and rightly so .

[Treacle Trackpad 6]

BLUF

 

Do you shoot wild game for your own

private consumption or very occasionally

supply it in fur or in feather for private

consumption?

 

YES

 

You are not a food business operator, so the regulations do not apply.

For more information see private domestic consumption

 

PRIMARY PRODUCERS SUPPLYING AGHEs

Any primary producer supplying an approved game handling establishment (AGHE) must:

• ensure a trained person is present and completes relevant documentation

(NB An AGHE is entitled to refuse to accept carcases where the bona fide involvement of a

trained person (as set out in Regulation 853/2004) cannot be established, though there is

provision in the Regulations for where a trained person is unexpectedly unavailable.)

• be registered with the Local Authority under the registration of food businesses requirement;

(If you are a shooting party guest of a primary producer see ‘Situation H’ in a separate Q&A

annex under ‘Some Typical Situations’.

• comply with the food business operator’s responsibilities, including both the general

hygiene provisions for primary production in Regulation 852/2004 and the specific provisions

for the initial handling of large/small wild game in Regulation 853/2004 when it is subsequently

supplied to an AGHE;

• meet the traceability requirements of Regulation 178/2002

PRIMARY PRODUCER EXEMPTION

There is an exemption from the above rules when supply involves small quantities of in-fur/infeather

carcases supplied either direct to the final consumer and/or to local retailers that directly

supply the final consumer.

In the UK these terms are currently being interpreted as follows:

• Small quantities are now regarded as self-defining because demand for in-fur/in-feather

carcases from final consumers and local retailers is limited.

• Local is within the supplying establishment’s own county plus the greater of either the neighbouring

county or counties or 50 km/30 miles from the boundary of the supplying establishment’s county.

• Direct supply to the final consumer is not restricted by what is local. An individual or an estate

can supply final consumers who order from them via the internet/mail order as well as those

who collect themselves.

 

THE HUNTER EXEMPTION

The hunter exemption recognises the close relationship between the producer and the consumer.

It goes beyond the primary producer exemption and allows you to supply wild game meat. You

can benefit from this exemption if you shoot alone or if you take an active part in a hunting party.

Members of hunting parties and individual hunters are exempt from:

• having to develop their premises into an approved game handling establishment (AGHE).

All game must have been shot by hunting party members (it cannot be sourced from others)

and can be prepared into meat by any one (or more) of the party. As with the primary

producer exemption, only small quantities may be supplied, either direct to the final consumer

or to local retailers.

It is the premises where you prepare meat that have to be local to the retailers you plan to supply

and not the place(s) where you shoot. So you can shoot on other people’s estates and then bring

the game back to your own premises.

 

www.food.gov.uk

 

There is a flow chart and all the details in the link. Follow the flow that pertains to you and Bob's yer mother's brother.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Treacle Trackpad

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Exactly -primary producers exemption applies to most of us .

[Treacle Trackpad 6]

Exactly -primary producers exemption applies to most of us .

Yep

[HUnter_zero 58]

 

That was a very long winded way of saying I am correct in what I have written.

 

And that was a good way of not answering my question

[HUnter_zero 58]

Exactly -primary producers exemption applies to most of us .

Yep

 

 

No, simply because as "individual" hunters we can never comply with the requirements of storage and transportation of meat. The Environmental heath would have a field day.

 

The hunter exemption does NOT exempt you from:

• being considered as a food business operator;

• registration of food businesses, traceability, FBOs’ responsibilities, HACCP, maintaining

the cold chain and the probable need to provide a chiller (see game larders, including

temperature controls);

• requirements for hygienic transport including maintaining the cold chain (both for the in-fur/infeather

game you bring from the shooting area and for the meat you deliver to final

consumers/retailers).

The structural and operational hygiene requirements for the premises that you use cover both the

way you store primary products (in-fur and in-feather game) and the way you prepare food from

them. If a private dwelling house or temporary/movable premises are to be used, then some of the

general requirements are adapted.

 

Oh....and there are not many restaurants that can skin and butcher a deer, AND have the relevant storage, preparation and disposal equipment/methods available at their disposal. Also, lets say you supplied a chap down the road with venison and because HE left the meat out for 36 hours and gave himself food poisoning, YOU, yup that's right YOU would be investigated and lets say you didn't comply with current food regs, it is YOU would could end up in prison. That's right, failure to comply with food regs isn't a petty civil issue, it's a criminal issue.

 

John

Edited September 1, 2010 by HUnter_zero

[Deker 3,478]

Exactly -primary producers exemption applies to most of us .

Yep

 

 

No, simply because as "individual" hunters we can never comply with the requirements of storage and transportation of meat. The Environmental heath would have a field day.

 

The hunter exemption does NOT exempt you from:

being considered as a food business operator;

registration of food businesses, traceability, FBOs responsibilities, HACCP, maintaining

the cold chain and the probable need to provide a chiller (see game larders, including

temperature controls);

requirements for hygienic transport including maintaining the cold chain (both for the in-fur/infeather

game you bring from the shooting area and for the meat you deliver to final

consumers/retailers).

The structural and operational hygiene requirements for the premises that you use cover both the

way you store primary products (in-fur and in-feather game) and the way you prepare food from

them. If a private dwelling house or temporary/movable premises are to be used, then some of the

general requirements are adapted.

 

John

 

 

Write to the Government and tell them they have it all wrong!

 

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/wildgameguide1007.pdf

Edited September 1, 2010 by Deker

[HUnter_zero 58]

 

 

Write to the Government and tell them they have it all wrong!

 

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/wildgameguide1007.pdf

 

Deker, Food and Environment Protection Act 1985. This is the ACT that the Environmental health will use to prosecute anyone supplying food unfit for human consumption. Forget all the flow charts and self help crap, FEPA is what you need to comply with. Everything ends up back to FEPA.

To be honest Deker, I don't really give a toss but what I will say is that the supply of food for human consumption is regulated with more than "guides" and flow charts.

There is an old saying "it's not illegal unless you get caught" and in the case of food, most of the time people sail close to the wind. I see so many food businesses and business owners who know better and one day the world comes a falling in and they end up in court. Serious breeches result in imprisonment. Reading your guide, it's clear that to supply venison you would have to register as a food business, which instantly means that the environmental health can visit your home and enter all areas that food (for sale) is prepared and stored. These guys are not wannabe key board warriors, these guys know there stuff and for most amateur stalkers the story will end right there. Even if your prep/storage area is up to standard (this would cost more than you would earn from selling small quantities of game), you would still have the meat transport issues. The Environmental health call it "Cold chain", so you would need refrigerated transport. On top of that you have the food retailer. From what I can glee with your flow chart, game must be supplied in fur/feather (?). Supplying a deer in fur to a food premises would result in that food premises being closed if the owner were to process the carcass on site. I doubt you will find many butchers who will openly take venison to butcher (in the skin).

 

Any way, best of luck.

 

John

Edited September 2, 2010 by HUnter_zero

[Deker 3,478]

 

 

Write to the Government and tell them they have it all wrong!

 

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/wildgameguide1007.pdf

 

Deker, Food and Environment Protection Act 1985. This is the ACT that the Environmental health will use to prosecute anyone supplying food unfit for human consumption. Forget all the flow charts and self help crap, FEPA is what you need to comply with. Everything ends up back to FEPA.

To be honest Deker, I don't really give a toss but what I will say is that the supply of food for human consumption is regulated with more than "guides" and flow charts.

There is an old saying "it's not illegal unless you get caught" and in the case of food, most of the time people sail close to the wind. I see so many food businesses and business owners who know better and one day the world comes a falling in and they end up in court. Serious breeches result in imprisonment. Reading your guide, it's clear that to supply venison you would have to register as a food business, which instantly means that the environmental health can visit your home and enter all areas that food (for sale) is prepared and stored. These guys are not wannabe key board warriors, these guys know there stuff and for most amateur stalkers the story will end right there. Even if your prep/storage area is up to standard (this would cost more than you would earn from selling small quantities of game), you would still have the meat transport issues. The Environmental health call it "Cold chain", so you would need refrigerated transport. On top of that you have the food retailer. From what I can glee with your flow chart, game must be supplied in fur/feather (?). Supplying a deer in fur to a food premises would result in that food premises being closed if the owner were to process the carcass on site. I doubt you will find many butchers who will openly take venison to butcher (in the skin).

 

Any way, best of luck.

 

John

 

 

 

Write to the Government and tell them they have it wrong.

 

Then try and break the news gently to everyone who paid for a Food Hygiene Certificate it isn't worth the paper it is written on as they have to comply with all these other regulations regardless!

[HUnter_zero 58]

 

 

 

Write to the Government and tell them they have it wrong.

 

Then try and break the news gently to everyone who paid for a Food Hygiene Certificate it isn't worth the paper it is written on as they have to comply with all these other regulations regardless!

 

Deker, you _claim_ to be a professional pest controller, I am amazed that this all comes as a shock to you.

FEPA is why we are in business, on reflection I'm not shocked.

I hold a food hygiene certificate, it means nothing. The reason food produces / retailers need food hygiene certification is to comply with FEPA.

Complying with FEPA is my job, if you want an in-depth discussion about the implications of FEPA, I am more than happy. I have sat through hours up on hours of training days to learn how to comply with FEPA and the implications of FEPA on the food industry and contractor to the food industry. Fact is that if you take a carcass of venison to a restaurant and obtain payment for the venison, you will be breaking many laws. I noticed you didn't want to supply the names of businesses you supply with venison, why is that? I visit five or six food premises a day, and could sell venison all day long, but I don't because I know very well what could happen. Incidentally, you can GIVE the venison away and you can sell cooked venison.

 

 

 

John

Edited September 2, 2010 by HUnter_zero

[Deker 3,478]

 

 

 

Write to the Government and tell them they have it wrong.

 

Then try and break the news gently to everyone who paid for a Food Hygiene Certificate it isn't worth the paper it is written on as they have to comply with all these other regulations regardless!

 

Deker, you _claim_ to be a professional pest controller, I am amazed that this all comes as a shock to you.

FEPA is why we are in business, on reflection I'm not shocked.

I hold a food hygiene certificate, it means nothing. The reason food produces / retailers need food hygiene certification is to comply with FEPA.

Complying with FEPA is my job, if you want an in-depth discussion about the implications of FEPA, I am more than happy. I have sat through hours up on hours of training days to learn how to comply with FEPA and the implications of FEPA on the food industry and contractor to the food industry. Fact is that if you take a carcass of venison to a restaurant and obtain payment for the venison, you will be breaking many laws. I noticed you didn't want to supply the names of businesses you supply with venison, why is that? I visit five or six food premises a day, and could sell venison all day long, but I don't because I know very well what could happen. Incidentally, you can GIVE the venison away and you can sell cooked venison.

 

 

 

John

 

 

Write to the Government and tell them they have it wrong.

 

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/wildgameguide1007.pdf

 

Then try and break the news gently to everyone who paid for a Food Hygiene Certificate it isn't worth the paper it is written on as they have to comply with all these other regulations regardless!

[jenksi87 3]

i guess i shouldnt ask if anyone near me is selling any then? lol

[coldweld 65]

 

 

 

Write to the Government and tell them they have it wrong.

 

Then try and break the news gently to everyone who paid for a Food Hygiene Certificate it isn't worth the paper it is written on as they have to comply with all these other regulations regardless!

 

Deker, you _claim_ to be a professional pest controller, I am amazed that this all comes as a shock to you.

FEPA is why we are in business, on reflection I'm not shocked.

I hold a food hygiene certificate, it means nothing. The reason food produces / retailers need food hygiene certification is to comply with FEPA.

Complying with FEPA is my job, if you want an in-depth discussion about the implications of FEPA, I am more than happy. I have sat through hours up on hours of training days to learn how to comply with FEPA and the implications of FEPA on the food industry and contractor to the food industry. Fact is that if you take a carcass of venison to a restaurant and obtain payment for the venison, you will be breaking many laws. I noticed you didn't want to supply the names of businesses you supply with venison, why is that? I visit five or six food premises a day, and could sell venison all day long, but I don't because I know very well what could happen. Incidentally, you can GIVE the venison away and you can sell cooked venison.

 

 

 

John

 

 

Write to the Government and tell them they have it wrong.

 

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/wildgameguide1007.pdf

 

Then try and break the news gently to everyone who paid for a Food Hygiene Certificate it isn't worth the paper it is written on as they have to comply with all these other regulations regardless!

 

 

Don't waste your time John !

 

It's more misleading B*** hit from the king of know it all Hi Pecker !!

Edited September 3, 2010 by coldweld