5 Nations Terrier Show (Ireiand)

[gonetoearth 5,144]

went to me first terrier show in the mid 70's guess what same shit

then as there is now , nothing changed except the colour of the

terriers , same ring side sniping , same old moans

terrier shows should be for the craic and fund raising ,

game fairs are and always will be money oriented , thats what they

are for , you will never ever judge a terriers working ability

in the show ring don't mater who is on the end of the lead or

who judges it , scar's or no scar's , , its all a matter of

opinions and theirs loads of them

Edited August 19, 2010 by gonetoearth

[fionn 21]

this is my last comment on topic as its getting personal you ask what iv won in the show ring nothing and for breeding workers maybe one or two but i do work my terrier, iv been to most top show in uk and ireland iv nothing personal againts shamus or you but uv come on here and stated that shamus has one more in show rings than anyone else and took more foxes in ireland than anyone else. iv named two men alredy thats won mostly every show in uk between them as for taken more foxes than anyone else how could you possilly say that. how many other terriermen in ireland do you know you had to ask shamus who d roberts was. theres hundred of good dogmen that go out hunting all over ireland every week that account for lots of foxes shamus will agree with me on that p.s hope the show is a sucess yours in sport fionn

[kegs 40]

I like most am sick of this my show is better than your show rubbish,i am new to all this web stuff but by nomeans to the field.ive ran and dug dogs for twenty years although i dont dig like i used to.i dont want to be famous but you talk of winning.ive showed my dogs and won both sides of the border and the water and ive also judged at show and gamefair.some people will know me but most people wont but im happy with that.

ive been to all irish fairs they all have there faults albert but why you feel the need to pick out another shows is beyond me when your own is far from perfect

before you spout your usual give me facts speech

1,you are the most expensive fair by far

2,you talk of prize funds and trophies ,ive been at local shows with better trophies that charge £2 PER CLASS

3,judges,how many shows have the antrim club actually got a judge that wasnt in their club

4,members of the above club,fair play to them for the job they do but they think they are the beall and endall of terriers and lurchers,i have stood round a ring and listened to them slaughter another clubs show which as they were not there really speaks volumes on their attitudes towards other hunting folk

5,you talk about numbers of foxes killed,you are missing the point the lads are making.shooting isnt an issue its the digs they were talkin about,the good old days doesnt cut it im afraid because even then they were their own biggest fans

6,your very hard on ballinlough in your posts,lets look for a moment and remember that it is only 2 year old and a new venue and as i was there i feel i can comment as i paid in.it wasnt as big as shanes but it was very well laid out and run by the lads that did it i dont know them but fair play

 

anyhow that is me getting of my soap box now. this is not a personal attack on anyone but it is just the opinion of someone who pays in through the gate

i have opinions on moira and ballinlough also but they arent on here shouting so i reserve them for another day i would leave you with a roman warning albert beware the mob for they are fickle yours in sport kegs

 

judges,how many shows have the antrim club actually got a judge that wasnt in their club

 

The club have been running shows for 28 years and few if any of the shows have been judged by club members.

 

I responded to Neil Cooney who attacked our organisers and our fairs and make no apology for doing so. He described our organisers as a joke and I responded in like vein about Ballinlough which he judged.

 

I didn't make the claim that Ballinlough had 180 stands I queried it. The organisers claimed it had grown - from my reports it had gone back massively in crowds. I certainly reserve the right to object to hype from other event organisers who claim primacy with their shows. We too claim primacy but have the objective assessments to prove it. I make no apology for speaking the truth and stating FACTS.

 

Also it is a FACT that no terrier & lurcher show in Ireland will have better trophies or prizes than Birr.

 

 

As a marketing professional I know what our customers want through research and that is why our events grow in terms of crowds, quality of stands, competitions/competitors, prize funds, prestige and publicity.

 

The terrier and lurcher crowd are just a very small part of the attendance at our shows (c 3-4%) but I have to admit that I had not given them the attention they deserved as competitors compared to my interests in shooting and gundogs. Tom, a friend, was on this forum and was defending us against attacks but I like to fight my own battles plus I thought I could learn something about what the terrier and lurcher folk actually wanted.

 

I have learned more from people who have contacted me off the forum - possibly because these people do not want to be attacked publicly on it. As I have said I have met the commitments I have made on this forum to the genine terrier and lurcher people who support all of the shows and I will not stand by and have inaccurate sniping about our event organisers or our fairs from people who haven't even been at them.

 

I am confident enough in my own marketing ability and that of our team,with the support of the main countrysports bodies, to continue to organise and deliver the biggest and best game and country fairs in Ireland that I can choose to ignore your 'Roman warning'.

 

We do of course welcome fact based constructive criticism and as you will have seen we have acted on as great deal of the suggestions that have come from this forum and through it.

 

Thanks for your input,

 

Albertj

yet again you try to baffle with b*llsh*T as they say .you run down an other show unprofessional only starts it fact

the prize fund is the biggest SO FAR this year,but then you do charge for the previlage.in reality counted pound for pound its no bigger than any other fact

28 years is long enough to get it right fact

run a show with out lurchers terriers and whippets and see how small a number we are i dare you

you are the onlyone who ive heard say your show is the biggest and best but then thats marketing or you

tell you what run a poll on here for the best show and see how that goes

lastly you say about all the great things you do for fieldsports

there are small charity events who raise much needed money for things in their community and the like with not a 3rd of the money yous take,so for once please dont treat people on here as fools as you have been

[AlbertJ 569]

this is my last comment on topic as its getting personal you ask what iv won in the show ring nothing and for breeding workers maybe one or two but i do work my terrier, iv been to most top show in uk and ireland iv nothing personal againts shamus or you but uv come on here and stated that shamus has one more in show rings than anyone else and took more foxes in ireland than anyone else. iv named two men alredy thats won mostly every show in uk between them as for taken more foxes than anyone else how could you possilly say that. how many other terriermen in ireland do you know you had to ask shamus who d roberts was. theres hundred of good dogmen that go out hunting all over ireland every week that account for lots of foxes shamus will agree with me on that p.s hope the show is a sucess yours in sport fionn

 

Fionn,

 

Thanks for your input - if you look back through your posts and all of this thread you will see that it was you who got 'personal' by your attack on Seamus and Matt. I was simply defending organisers who I think have done a good job for us in organising good terrier and lurcher events at our shows.

 

I did not claim to know every terrierman in Ireland - I know some but not all. Dave Roberts may be well known in terrier circles but I had not come across him. But if I don't know someone I do ask about them from someone who does and in this case I passed on your suggestion for a judge to Seamus who did know him. Your recommendation in this case appeared sound and I look forward to meeting Dave and seeing him judge.

 

I have personal experience of seeing Seamus hunt and I know your allegations about him are not factual - you have never hunted with him and yet you make personal attacks on him.

 

Since you were attacking Seamus I simply asked what on what basis you were qualified to attack him. You have replied. Everyone is entitled to their opinion - you have expressed yours freely and without restraint but like many on this forum you would appear to wish to deny me expressing mine. I have not been in any way abusive to you - can you say the same? When you say I got personal I did not - I simply asked you a question about your personal experience.

 

Any criticism I have made of anyone or anything on this forum has been based on facts. Yes I criticised Ballinlough for apparent hype and apparently unjustified claims. The challenge still remains on this - did anyone see the promised 'over 150 stands' last year or the 180 this year?

 

You have criticised me for claiming something about Seamus - but don't appear to want me the same right to criticise what I consider are outlandish claims made by someone else - to you not think that's a 'tad' inconsistent.

 

Thanks for your contributions on the thread and I do look forward to meeting you at Birr.

 

Albert J

[terrier.2 123]

surely this must be the end of this topic by now,,,,so on a lighter note,good luck with the show hope all goes well,i know how much work TC will have put into this,his enthusiasm knows no bounderies :thumbs:so to all concerned,HAVE A GOOD ONE!

[AlbertJ 569]

I like most am sick of this my show is better than your show rubbish,i am new to all this web stuff but by nomeans to the field.ive ran and dug dogs for twenty years although i dont dig like i used to.i dont want to be famous but you talk of winning.ive showed my dogs and won both sides of the border and the water and ive also judged at show and gamefair.some people will know me but most people wont but im happy with that.

ive been to all irish fairs they all have there faults albert but why you feel the need to pick out another shows is beyond me when your own is far from perfect

before you spout your usual give me facts speech

1,you are the most expensive fair by far

2,you talk of prize funds and trophies ,ive been at local shows with better trophies that charge £2 PER CLASS

3,judges,how many shows have the antrim club actually got a judge that wasnt in their club

4,members of the above club,fair play to them for the job they do but they think they are the beall and endall of terriers and lurchers,i have stood round a ring and listened to them slaughter another clubs show which as they were not there really speaks volumes on their attitudes towards other hunting folk

5,you talk about numbers of foxes killed,you are missing the point the lads are making.shooting isnt an issue its the digs they were talkin about,the good old days doesnt cut it im afraid because even then they were their own biggest fans

6,your very hard on ballinlough in your posts,lets look for a moment and remember that it is only 2 year old and a new venue and as i was there i feel i can comment as i paid in.it wasnt as big as shanes but it was very well laid out and run by the lads that did it i dont know them but fair play

 

anyhow that is me getting of my soap box now. this is not a personal attack on anyone but it is just the opinion of someone who pays in through the gate

i have opinions on moira and ballinlough also but they arent on here shouting so i reserve them for another day i would leave you with a roman warning albert beware the mob for they are fickle yours in sport kegs

 

judges,how many shows have the antrim club actually got a judge that wasnt in their club

 

The club have been running shows for 28 years and few if any of the shows have been judged by club members.

 

I responded to Neil Cooney who attacked our organisers and our fairs and make no apology for doing so. He described our organisers as a joke and I responded in like vein about Ballinlough which he judged.

 

I didn't make the claim that Ballinlough had 180 stands I queried it. The organisers claimed it had grown - from my reports it had gone back massively in crowds. I certainly reserve the right to object to hype from other event organisers who claim primacy with their shows. We too claim primacy but have the objective assessments to prove it. I make no apology for speaking the truth and stating FACTS.

 

Also it is a FACT that no terrier & lurcher show in Ireland will have better trophies or prizes than Birr.

 

 

As a marketing professional I know what our customers want through research and that is why our events grow in terms of crowds, quality of stands, competitions/competitors, prize funds, prestige and publicity.

 

The terrier and lurcher crowd are just a very small part of the attendance at our shows (c 3-4%) but I have to admit that I had not given them the attention they deserved as competitors compared to my interests in shooting and gundogs. Tom, a friend, was on this forum and was defending us against attacks but I like to fight my own battles plus I thought I could learn something about what the terrier and lurcher folk actually wanted.

 

I have learned more from people who have contacted me off the forum - possibly because these people do not want to be attacked publicly on it. As I have said I have met the commitments I have made on this forum to the genine terrier and lurcher people who support all of the shows and I will not stand by and have inaccurate sniping about our event organisers or our fairs from people who haven't even been at them.

 

I am confident enough in my own marketing ability and that of our team,with the support of the main countrysports bodies, to continue to organise and deliver the biggest and best game and country fairs in Ireland that I can choose to ignore your 'Roman warning'.

 

We do of course welcome fact based constructive criticism and as you will have seen we have acted on as great deal of the suggestions that have come from this forum and through it.

 

Thanks for your input,

 

Albertj

yet again you try to baffle with b*llsh*T as they say .you run down an other show unprofessional only starts it fact

the prize fund is the biggest SO FAR this year,but then you do charge for the previlage.in reality counted pound for pound its no bigger than any other fact

28 years is long enough to get it right fact

run a show with out lurchers terriers and whippets and see how small a number we are i dare you

you are the onlyone who ive heard say your show is the biggest and best but then thats marketing or you

tell you what run a poll on here for the best show and see how that goes

lastly you say about all the great things you do for fieldsports

there are small charity events who raise much needed money for things in their community and the like with not a 3rd of the money yous take,so for once please dont treat people on here as fools as you have been

 

Kegs,

 

Thanks for your input. Like many on this forum you are very free with your

criticism and yet you would appear to wish to deny me expressing mine. I have not been in any way abusive or 'unprofessional' to you - can you say the same?

 

Any criticism I have made of anyone or anything on this forum has been based on facts. Yes I criticised Ballinlough for apparent hype and apparently unjustified claims. The challenge still remains on this - did anyone see the promised 'over 150 stands' last year or the 180 this year?

 

You have criticised me and our show organisers - but don't asppear to want me the same right to criticise what I consider are outlandish claims made by someone else - do you not think that's a 'tad' inconsistent?

 

The people on this forum make up a very small percentage of the people who attend Game Fairs in Ireland so to get a truly objective opinion on attendance and what people want, we survey and count our attendance. The latter has been growing every year. We also ask exhibitors' opinion on how well they do at the various shows - exhibitors definitely vote with thir feet and go where the trade is - that is why Shanes and Birr have a greater demand for stands than we can take and we have been uppping the quality by choosing among stands. Demand for stands indicates success we don't have to make apparently unjustified claims aboy 150 or 180 stands - we actually deliver them! Regarding other events we simply count their stands and the cars in the car parks. On these rather more scientific bases we know our shows are the biggest and best and I make no apology for saying this. If you have a good product you let people know about it!

 

However it is not just me or us who state our shows are the best apart from the exhibitors, the following who would be rather better than you at judging shows objectively state ours are the best :

 

1. The NITB and tourism & marketing professionals see : irishgamefair.com/award.asp

2. See wwww.countrychannel.tv archives from last year - or if you can't access this hear Des Crofton, Director of the NARGC Ireland's largest country sports organisation; David Brennan the ROI's largest gundealer; Donal McCloy NI's largest gundealer and the European marketing director of Mauser Rifles say so!

3. Or visit the archives of www.fieldsportschannel.tv and hear their opinion of the Shanes Castle Fair and see for yourself the number of stands and visitors - a record for any Irish game fair and I have been organising these for 32 years. If you can't recall what Ballinlough was like compared to thisI can send you a video!

4. Finally the media support we get and the sponsorship we attract indicates that we are clearly the biggest and the best.

 

You are of course entitled to your opinion no matter how little it is factually based - you may actually believe that you saw 180 stands at Ballinlough because you may believe everything these organisers tell you!

 

I prefer to believe the evidence of our own research and the objective opinion of professionals in the field.

 

We do and have raised a great deal of money for clubs, organisations and chairies through the fair and magazine and there are few if any major clubs that I/we have not supported or sponsored over the years. I don't make a song and dance about it because I feeled privileged to be able to help a lot of people who put so much time in voluntarily to causes I support. Some of these are publicised to help the organisation others are not. We also publicise where other fieldsports organisations raise money for charity so if anyone knows of these please send us details and a photo and it will be published. Its good news for the charity and fieldsports.

 

As I have said elsewhere I came on this forum to defend our terrier & lurcher organisers from critiscm and I have tried to deal with constructive and even in some cases criticism that was based on misconception. I and others have spent a great deal of time, money and effort on addressing these criticisms and in putting in place quality terrier and lurcher events in Ireland. The result - rather abusive criticism.

 

My colleagues and I get nothing in return out of the entry fees for the terrier & lurcher show - these like all our events go to the clubs be it gundog, terrier & lucher, dummy throwing or clay pigeon. Regarding the gate I have offered terrier & lurcher enthusiasts a special two days for the price of one ticket and allocated them special parking and competition facilities within the fair and feature them in the main arena - unlike other fairs that treat them like pariahs and hide them away outside the main area. Like every thing we do we research breakdown of attendance and we have very good estimates of the contribution that terrier & lurcher people make to the gate in terms of numbers. It is currently about twice what the pedigree dog show & agility people contribute in terms of numbers and rather less than the gundogs or the clay pigeon shooters. We have brought the prize fund up similar levels to the clay pigeon and gundog competitions and over 15 times greater than the pedigree dog show and dog agility shows. My own feeling is that if we offered similar prizes to those that we have offered to the terriers and lurchers this year to the dog show, obedience and agility people we would certainly get a better return.

 

None of the gundog,dog show or clay pigeon shooters criticise our club organisers, the judges or our fairs! Now if you were me or my colleagues when setting a budget for events next year - where would you put your money?

 

Albertj

Edited August 20, 2010 by AlbertJ

[AlbertJ 569]

surely this must be the end of this topic by now,,,,so on a lighter note,good luck with the show hope all goes well,i know how much work TC will have put into this,his enthusiasm knows no bounderies :thumbs:so to all concerned,HAVE A GOOD ONE!

 

 

Terrier2,

 

Yes Tom has been the main inspiration for the Five Nations and it was a delight to work with him and to have Joe and he over to Shanes where Tom's cameo slot in judging the best puppy from among the terrier, lurcher & whippet pups was very well received. I must stress he did not watch or see the terrier judging!

 

Fran and he have put in a lot of hard work in the UK to make this new championship a success. I know he and his judging team will do a fair and impartial job of judging the Five Nations and it is highly unfortunate that it would appear someone from the UK and a few from Ireland with particular agendas have got involved in criticising the potential judging, the potential result of the Five Nations and our experienced organisers of the main qualifying show. From the messages I have received from people who don't want to face abuse on the forum I know that the vast majority of terrier and lurcher owners in Ireland and further afield will give the show, the Five Nations qualifiers from the UK and Tom and his judging team a very warm welcome.

 

Thanks for your good wishes.

 

Albertj

[scent 509]

ah jasus christ this thread is getting worse then that dereck canning bird thread lol.JUst be done with it and run the bloody show .I just dont think anyone should be dis respecting any show.Alot of time and effort goes into running a show so i dont think it was fair to come on and say my show is better then your show.Once again il wish you a great day and show albert and i hope yee get a great turn out

[AlbertJ 569]

ah jasus christ this thread is getting worse then that dereck canning bird thread lol.JUst be done with it and run the bloody show .I just dont think anyone should be dis respecting any show.Alot of time and effort goes into running a show so i dont think it was fair to come on and say my show is better then your show.Once again il wish you a great day and show albert and i hope yee get a great turn out

 

Scent,

 

Thanks for your good wishes.

 

Parking for terrier and lurchers is on site through gate C but with a huge clay pigeon shoot ( €15,000 in prizes) also having parking in the same parkland and with demand for stands so great that the main site at Birr is completely booked up with stands us having had to start secondary rows in MountPalmer opposite the terrier & lurcher rings. I suggest if you want guaranteed ringside parking get there early.

 

There is a full main arena programme from 10.00 to 6.00 each day including terrier, whippets and lurcher displays in the main arena at 12.30 Saturday and Sunday and 4.30 Saturday. The Five Nations final will at 4.40 in the main arena Sunday. www.fieldsportschannel.tv will be televising the Five Nations Final and the main arena displays on Sunday.

 

Full downloadable and printable programme for the fair at www.irishgameandcountryfair.com

[neil cooney 10,416]

Albert, just before I go.

If you didn't write the article that states that those of us who work terriers in Ireland have Seamus Erwin to thank for our terriers and bloodlines then who did write it ????

[AlbertJ 569]

Albert, just before I go.

If you didn't write the article that states that those of us who work terriers in Ireland have Seamus Erwin to thank for our terriers and bloodlines then who did write it ????

 

Neil,

 

There were two articles that I recall written on Seamus Erwin - one by Emma Cowan and one I think by Paul Pringle. I was with Emma when she interviewed Seamus and he had quite a good pictorial record of his line and where they came from and went to BUT as an occasional but serious breeder of gundogs I don't think I would have made such a sweeping statement about any bloodlines in such a diverse range of bloodlines that are obviously in working terriers.

 

However as I said before we are always willing to accept suggestions for profiles of terrier & lurcher people or discussion pieces on bloodlines and types of working terriers from anyone. Simply contact Paul ( preferably) or myself.

 

I do have considerable knowledge of Seamus's involvement in fox control from the late 70's to today. It is not for publication but my assertion about the number of fox killed in the late 70's and 's is accurate. I take some ground up in the glens of Antrim and I know the farmers call him out regularly and these are hard nosed guys who know what they want. I also know several gamekeepers who call him in when they have a particularly difficult fox. And I suggest if you get to birr look at his van. Also ask Des Macken about his hunting.

 

Anyway I have got myself into enough trouble defending Seamus and bearing in mind the fallings out he and I have had over the years he would be greatly amused to find that I have defended him so vigorously.

 

We have had our debate with a few insults thrown on both sides but I like people who speak their mind, as I do, and I genuinely would like to invite you to come to Birr as my guest to see the show and final for yourself.

 

Albertj

[cyldster 0]

My colleagues and I get nothing in return out of the entry fees for the terrier & lurcher show - these like all our events go to the clubs be it gundog, terrier & lucher, dummy throwing or clay pigeon. Regarding the gate I have offered terrier & lurcher enthusiasts a special two days for the price of one ticket and allocated them special parking and competition facilities within the fair and feature them in the main arena - unlike other fairs that treat them like pariahs and hide them away outside the main area. Like every thing we do we research breakdown of attendance and we have very good estimates of the contribution that terrier & lurcher people make to the gate in terms of numbers. It is currently about twice what the pedigree dog show & agility people contribute in terms of numbers and rather less than the gundogs or the clay pigeon shooters. We have brought the prize fund up similar levels to the clay pigeon and gundog competitions and over 15 times greater than the pedigree dog show and dog agility shows. My own feeling is that if we offered similar prizes to those that we have offered to the terriers and lurchers this year to the dog show, obedience and agility people we would certainly get a better return.

 

None of the gundog,dog show or clay pigeon shooters criticise our club organisers, the judges or our fairs! Now if you were me or my colleagues when setting a budget for events next year - where would you put your money?

 

Albertj

 

Albert,

I don't mean to knock your fair in anyway, but feel the question needs to be asked, if the gamefair does not receive any money from the show ring then why have the MAWTC set their tariffs so high? As you have rightly said you run highly popular fairs so I'm assuming at 5 euro a dog, the show ring grosses a large ammount of money at both Shane's and Birr. Do the MAWTC donate any of this to charity or is it solely for club funds?

Edited August 20, 2010 by cyldster

[mudd dog 128]

this is my last comment on topic as its getting personal you ask what iv won in the show ring nothing and for breeding workers maybe one or two but i do work my terrier, iv been to most top show in uk and ireland iv nothing personal againts shamus or you but uv come on here and stated that shamus has one more in show rings than anyone else and took more foxes in ireland than anyone else. iv named two men alredy thats won mostly every show in uk between them as for taken more foxes than anyone else how could you possilly say that. how many other terriermen in ireland do you know you had to ask shamus who d roberts was. theres hundred of good dogmen that go out hunting all over ireland every week that account for lots of foxes shamus will agree with me on that p.s hope the show is a sucess yours in sport fionn

i've been out beating with hounds and lamping with certain fellas well known. dogs only no guns. the amount of foxs they get is very impressive at the end of every season

[dogman71 1]

this is my last comment on topic as its getting personal you ask what iv won in the show ring nothing and for breeding workers maybe one or two but i do work my terrier, iv been to most top show in uk and ireland iv nothing personal againts shamus or you but uv come on here and stated that shamus has one more in show rings than anyone else and took more foxes in ireland than anyone else. iv named two men alredy thats won mostly every show in uk between them as for taken more foxes than anyone else how could you possilly say that. how many other terriermen in ireland do you know you had to ask shamus who d roberts was. theres hundred of good dogmen that go out hunting all over ireland every week that account for lots of foxes shamus will agree with me on that p.s hope the show is a sucess yours in sport fionn

i've been out beating with hounds and lamping with certain fellas well known. dogs only no guns. the amount of foxs they get is very impressive at the end of every season

as for good dogs in ireland really all bought and shipped from the mainland from about 6 show and breeding names,TRUE OR NOT?the irish terriers were bent legged white mis fucks a few years ago before they started shipping lakeys over from uk,FACT!! STILL FIXED THOUGH ISNT IT AND WHY JUDGE TERRIERS IF YOU ARE A GUN DOG MAN?and i can not take a man who wears a skirt seriously im sorry to all cross dressers and scotsmen,ive been into terriers for about 30 odd years and always found shows were dodgy,ive seen dogs shown alot that never won much sold to different names then started winning everywhere,is not what you no its who you know in the show dog world FACT!!

[CarraghsGem 92]

i can not take a man who wears a skirt seriously im sorry to all cross dressers and scotsmen,

 

its ok dogman, you can tell us! coming out of the closet isnt a big thing these days