NUTTALL THE DIVIDING LINE??

[Guest busterdog]

seeing as some of you knew the miner dog and brian quite well,was the borderer (dog which i think was miners sire???a full border what was the thinking behind adding border blood?

 

 

I spoke to a friend of Brians last night and he had a 1/8 border in the eighties, a dog called boy that G Meeking bred and Brian used him as a stud a few times.

He also said that the dog started very early and was way to hard, he let the dog go to a friend of Brians who was a keeper near Holmes chapel.

Edited to say that it was in the seventies not the eighties 76-77, my mistake just rung him again.

Edited July 31, 2010 by busterdog

[lavrockhall 2]

Did BN not put Border blood in from Levi Oakes lines,or am i getting mixed up here . lavrock

[GROCKLE 55]

Im sure this thread started of as THE DIVIDING LINE ?lets get back on track and all the experts can enlighten us .

 

Your dead right Misty, this thred is about THE DIVIDING LINE but i'm no expert, this is my take on it.

 

I don't belive there is any such thing as 'old Nuttall', new Nuttall YES! Bold statement, well maybe but i've never seen ,even back in the 's, any dog that I could tell was of a stamp created by Brian, as soon as Fell Terrier was bought by many, Brians 'type' was seen as the same as Breay's. During the 's Brian attended many shows, the dogs around him were of a type, distinctive from the dogs bred by Gould, who was also attending lots of shows at the time, so was Brians type his.... Did he create that stamp...I doubt it.

Brian simply bred off predominantly Cyril Breay terriers, he produced a lot of 'em and many dog lads bought dogs off him. Did those lads in the early days know, or even heard of Cyril Breay, a man that hardly left the Lakes in his lifetime and as described by Plummer, 'shy and retiring'... NO, so the dogs off Brian were seen as 'Nuttall Terriers'!!

It would be the no different if I bought dogs off a excellent line, say Stevens for aruments sake and produced a lot of 'em, would they be 'Bosun' dogs.... Would they feck!!

I belive what Brian then did was evolve a type, over time, so no direct dividing line, of terriers that would and could be used predominantly for fox, that could be be seen as 'his' dogs, 'Nuttall Terriers'. Smaller and more wrecklass, the'd get anywhere and pitch in, a fox dog! Exactley the type if you want to breed working terriers for a market.

Today you can see a dog that is of Nuttall type, i recognise 'em and so do most lads. Like I said, these dogs have been bred over time, bred to work but also bred to sell, if you want to sell anything its got to be recognised as 'by you', therefore people would go back to the seller for another. Lets not kid ourselves, in the early 's when the working dog 'boom' hit, Brian was in direct contact with Plummer, who himself was 'creating' dogs recognisable as his, in my eyes its a similar tale, though a little less 'obvious' and Brian did have original stock with a fabulous working pedigree behind 'em to start and many folk have been very satisfied with them, hold 'em in very high regard and rightly so, if the dog suits your needs, then, thats all you want!

To say there aint no difference between the old and new nuttall stuff shows you aint no expert. I sees stuff from 20 yr back and they didnt look like the little things hes churning out know. Is your knowledge gained from first hand experience or just publications. The man has sadly sold out like so many who have gained a name.

[Bosun11 537]

Im sure this thread started of as THE DIVIDING LINE ?lets get back on track and all the experts can enlighten us .

 

Your dead right Misty, this thred is about THE DIVIDING LINE but i'm no expert, this is my take on it.

 

I don't belive there is any such thing as 'old Nuttall', new Nuttall YES! Bold statement, well maybe but i've never seen ,even back in the 's, any dog that I could tell was of a stamp created by Brian, as soon as Fell Terrier was bought by many, Brians 'type' was seen as the same as Breay's. During the 's Brian attended many shows, the dogs around him were of a type, distinctive from the dogs bred by Gould, who was also attending lots of shows at the time, so was Brians type his.... Did he create that stamp...I doubt it.

Brian simply bred off predominantly Cyril Breay terriers, he produced a lot of 'em and many dog lads bought dogs off him. Did those lads in the early days know, or even heard of Cyril Breay, a man that hardly left the Lakes in his lifetime and as described by Plummer, 'shy and retiring'... NO, so the dogs off Brian were seen as 'Nuttall Terriers'!!

It would be the no different if I bought dogs off a excellent line, say Stevens for aruments sake and produced a lot of 'em, would they be 'Bosun' dogs.... Would they feck!!

I belive what Brian then did was evolve a type, over time, so no direct dividing line, of terriers that would and could be used predominantly for fox, that could be be seen as 'his' dogs, 'Nuttall Terriers'. Smaller and more wrecklass, the'd get anywhere and pitch in, a fox dog! Exactley the type if you want to breed working terriers for a market.

Today you can see a dog that is of Nuttall type, i recognise 'em and so do most lads. Like I said, these dogs have been bred over time, bred to work but also bred to sell, if you want to sell anything its got to be recognised as 'by you', therefore people would go back to the seller for another. Lets not kid ourselves, in the early 's when the working dog 'boom' hit, Brian was in direct contact with Plummer, who himself was 'creating' dogs recognisable as his, in my eyes its a similar tale, though a little less 'obvious' and Brian did have original stock with a fabulous working pedigree behind 'em to start and many folk have been very satisfied with them, hold 'em in very high regard and rightly so, if the dog suits your needs, then, thats all you want!

To say there aint no difference between the old and new nuttall stuff shows you aint no expert. I sees stuff from 20 yr back and they didnt look like the little things hes churning out know. Is your knowledge gained from first hand experience or just publications. The man has sadly sold out like so many who have gained a name.

 

Then you need to read it again, i never said there was no difference, there clearly is! Just no defining division, which was the question asked..!

Like I said previous, I have dug to a few, but yes, i wouldn't consider myself any 'expert', just common obsevation, same as you.

[hedz31 1,308]

Did BN not put Border blood in from Levi Oakes lines,or am i getting mixed up here . lavrock

 

can someone comment on that.

i dont get how border terrier blood could of been put in or wording it better i dont get how folk can say border blood was introduced the dogs brian nuttall or type he has kept all originate from border terriers in the first place from cyril breay and from joe bowman before him there was questions asked about cyril breays strain about the introuduction of bull terrier blood but he always stated it was from a large headed border terrier did he not it was brian who introduced bull terrier blood into his strain or the type we see now i have also heard that there was an introduction from the terriers levi oakes kept into brians line i honestly could not tell you if there was as it was hear say maybe he did maybe he didnt i wouldnt say it was a beneficail factor in the dividing line though

regards hedz

[Guest busterdog]

Did BN not put Border blood in from Levi Oakes lines,or am i getting mixed up here . lavrock

 

can someone comment on that.

i dont get how border terrier blood could of been put in or wording it better i dont get how folk can say border blood was introduced the dogs brian nuttall or type he has kept all originate from border terriers in the first place from cyril breay and from joe bowman before him there was questions asked about cyril breays strain about the introuduction of bull terrier blood but he always stated it was from a large headed border terrier did he not it was brian who introduced bull terrier blood into his strain or the type we see now i have also heard that there was an introduction from the terriers levi oakes kept into brians line i honestly could not tell you if there was as it was hear say maybe he did maybe he didnt i wouldnt say it was a beneficail factor in the dividing line though

regards hedz

 

 

It's not here say mate, i can put you on the phone to a chap who dug week in and week out with Brian, if you know him ask him about "BOY".

[hedz31 1,308]

Did BN not put Border blood in from Levi Oakes lines,or am i getting mixed up here . lavrock

 

can someone comment on that.

i dont get how border terrier blood could of been put in or wording it better i dont get how folk can say border blood was introduced the dogs brian nuttall or type he has kept all originate from border terriers in the first place from cyril breay and from joe bowman before him there was questions asked about cyril breays strain about the introuduction of bull terrier blood but he always stated it was from a large headed border terrier did he not it was brian who introduced bull terrier blood into his strain or the type we see now i have also heard that there was an introduction from the terriers levi oakes kept into brians line i honestly could not tell you if there was as it was hear say maybe he did maybe he didnt i wouldnt say it was a beneficail factor in the dividing line though

regards hedz

 

 

It's not here say mate, i can put you on the phone to a chap who dug week in and week out with Brian, if you know him ask him about "BOY".

i think i know who your on about fella and i heard the same thing about the introdution from that strain but i only heard it and by your post and the terrier mentioned i would say you have confirmed it

[pbrookes 450]

was told by brian himself he used l.oakes borders on his bitches. he still gets rough haired dogs in litters and said he just puts a smooth dog back over em. my first dog off him when I was 15 out of mickey. 25 year ago and had stuff out of miner. no different in working style just smaller. last one I had out of miner x bramble he gave him me when he was 14 month old cos he was too big at 13".

[MISTY 11]

was told by brian himself he used l.oakes borders on his bitches. he still gets rough haired dogs in litters and said he just puts a smooth dog back over em. my first dog off him when I was 15 out of mickey. 25 year ago and had stuff out of miner. no different in working style just smaller. last one I had out of miner x bramble he gave him me when he was 14 month old cos he was too big at 13".

im sure he used L.Oakes Simi anyway.

[MISTY 11]

was told by brian himself he used l.oakes borders on his bitches. he still gets rough haired dogs in litters and said he just puts a smooth dog back over em. my first dog off him when I was 15 out of mickey. 25 year ago and had stuff out of miner. no different in working style just smaller. last one I had out of miner x bramble he gave him me when he was 14 month old cos he was too big at 13".

Mickey ,im sure a well known man whos strain is allways spoken of in high regard had plenty of Mickey blood in them ,same fella went to the same Chocolate Nuttall dog four times for a mating.I guess he wouldnt admit that though .

[pbrookes 450]

don't think its a secret. he will tell u if you ask him. wasn't rocky a quarter border?

[MISTY 11]

don't think its a secret. he will tell u if you ask him. wasn't rocky a quarter border?

No its not a secret ,yes

[ben1191 9]

my nuttall is a great worker,he isnt scarred like f**k,but that doesnt mean he isnt a good worker.His from nuttall lines either way i wouldnt swap him for any other patterdale.

[ben1191 9]

So what lines are respected the most these days then?

[Guest AngelicAcid]

I think thats the ones no one knows about, as thats what they are respected and kept STHUM.