NUTTALL THE DIVIDING LINE??

[christian71 3,187]

Back to the original question, was miner a big part in this line, the seperation of the old and new?

 

Right AA this is my take on it. Back in 1988 Brian Nuttall gave a talk night in the Dog & Partridge pub, in Pemberton, Wigan, for the old Wigan Dog Club of which I was the Chairman. As always Brian was articulate, well spoken and a font of knowlage of all things working terrier and hunting. At the end of the evening he took an open forum Q&A, the pub was packed full and I can remember the same two questions being repeated over...

 

1. What is the difference between his old and new stock?

 

2. Has he put any bull blood in his dogs?

 

On Q1, Brian stated that there was no difference in his terriers past and present, in size, type or working ability. He said they were bred for fox and fox only and thats what they would do, thats what he gave a money back guarentee on.

 

On Q2, Brian stated that he has never put any bull blood into the line.

 

See the thing is, on this forum this same question keeps coming up BUT what i'm trying to say is... It was back then too, I don't know the year of Miner's birth but i'm sure it wasn't that far back?

Lads could see a difference, in size, type and to be honest, working ability. I was a youngster back then, keen as mustard and the 'token' Chairman of the club BUT there was plenty of old school, hard bitten digging lads in that club and many dug with Brian, owned some of his stock, in the past but not one agreed with him on that 'same stock' answer.

 

I like Brian and in no way would I disrespect the man but i'll say things as i've seen 'em.

 

Since that night i've been at two other talk nights with Brian, both with the MWTLC, the same questions came up there, with the same answers and again with the same rumblings after. A member on here, 'MR1' answered plenty of questions about Brian and his dogs on his posts, if you need to know more it may be well worth looking for them, he's a lot more qualified than me to answer but don't pm him he ain't on no more, just read the posts.

 

Oh, just in case anyone is wondering, i've dug to a fair few of Brians dogs, three directly out of Miner, only one I rated, a big dog, unlike Brians usual stock, looked like the pic of Wally Wild's Kipper in Fell Terrier, that dog could handle deep digs, anywhere.. Maybe he was a throwback?

The ones that would 'go' i've found too small and far too wreckless for their size, wading in right from the start, getting smashed to bits on early digs, they didn't have a long career!

I believe that the type that Brian originally got off Breay & Buck has been washed away in the 's flood of all things working dog, Brains never going to admit it but he's bred for a certain type, a type that can be seen as a Nuttall bred dog, a little more of conformation than ability, little things get lost along the way and I have evidence of that too!

 

Ok brian said he put no bull blood in but his grandad did he worked in the mines

 

and they used to fight pit dogs brian said they wernt staffs but little black bull pit dogs

 

his grandad mated 2 or 3 of his bitchs to these dogs

Edited August 1, 2010 by christian71

[pickaxe 23]

Back to the original question, was miner a big part in this line, the seperation of the old and new?

 

Right AA this is my take on it. Back in 1988 Brian Nuttall gave a talk night in the Dog & Partridge pub, in Pemberton, Wigan, for the old Wigan Dog Club of which I was the Chairman. As always Brian was articulate, well spoken and a font of knowlage of all things working terrier and hunting. At the end of the evening he took an open forum Q&A, the pub was packed full and I can remember the same two questions being repeated over...

 

1. What is the difference between his old and new stock?

 

2. Has he put any bull blood in his dogs?

 

On Q1, Brian stated that there was no difference in his terriers past and present, in size, type or working ability. He said they were bred for fox and fox only and thats what they would do, thats what he gave a money back guarentee on.

 

On Q2, Brian stated that he has never put any bull blood into the line.

 

See the thing is, on this forum this same question keeps coming up BUT what i'm trying to say is... It was back then too, I don't know the year of Miner's birth but i'm sure it wasn't that far back?

Lads could see a difference, in size, type and to be honest, working ability. I was a youngster back then, keen as mustard and the 'token' Chairman of the club BUT there was plenty of old school, hard bitten digging lads in that club and many dug with Brian, owned some of his stock, in the past but not one agreed with him on that 'same stock' answer.

 

I like Brian and in no way would I disrespect the man but i'll say things as i've seen 'em.

 

Since that night i've been at two other talk nights with Brian, both with the MWTLC, the same questions came up there, with the same answers and again with the same rumblings after. A member on here, 'MR1' answered plenty of questions about Brian and his dogs on his posts, if you need to know more it may be well worth looking for them, he's a lot more qualified than me to answer but don't pm him he ain't on no more, just read the posts.

 

Oh, just in case anyone is wondering, i've dug to a fair few of Brians dogs, three directly out of Miner, only one I rated, a big dog, unlike Brians usual stock, looked like the pic of Wally Wild's Kipper in Fell Terrier, that dog could handle deep digs, anywhere.. Maybe he was a throwback?

The ones that would 'go' i've found too small and far too wreckless for their size, wading in right from the start, getting smashed to bits on early digs, they didn't have a long career!

I believe that the type that Brian originally got off Breay & Buck has been washed away in the 's flood of all things working dog, Brains never going to admit it but he's bred for a certain type, a type that can be seen as a Nuttall bred dog, a little more of conformation than ability, little things get lost along the way and I have evidence of that too!

 

Ok brain said he put no bull blood in but his grandad did he worked in the mines

 

and they used to fight pit dogs brain said they wernt staffs but little black bull pit dogs

 

his grandad mated 2 or 3 of his bitchs to these dogs

 

 

that's what he told me and the pups would sometimes come red bridle and choc,

as far as Brian Nattall bred terriers, most black working lines owe at least a dash of blood to his dogs

Edited August 1, 2010 by pickaxe

[bedrock 16]

i heard on an another site that smithy was half lakeland? is that true or just another rumour?

 

The story goes... smithy was out of a nuttall bitch “jet" to A Cowan bred Lakeland “Grip2â€

and was first owned by C.D. he was then sold to another chap who later sold him to Gouldy.

This has turned into a good tread...

[christian71 3,187]

i heard on an another site that smithy was half lakeland? is that true or just another rumour?

 

The story goes... smithy was out of a nuttall bitch jet" to A Cowan bred Lakeland Grip2

and was first owned by C.D. he was then sold to another chap who later sold him to Gouldy.

This has turned into a good tread...

 

Yep thats it mate she was a very hard bich so crossed it with the the lakey the was very hard to

Edited August 1, 2010 by christian71

[Guest AngelicAcid]

As said good thread, a bit off track, but who cares if it keeps like this, then why not keep it coming Everyone.

[Guest busterdog]

Didn't CD do a wright up about the dog and how it came to be and who he sold him to in one of the EDRD's.

[Guest busterdog]

i heard on an another site that smithy was half lakeland? is that true or just another rumour?

 

The story goes... smithy was out of a nuttall bitch "jet" to A Cowan bred Lakeland "Grip2"

and was first owned by C.D. he was then sold to another chap who later sold him to Gouldy.

This has turned into a good tread...

 

 

Thats what i have on my peds but Brian himself told me many years ago that he bred him

Perhaps he was just pulling the wool over very young eyes.

[christian71 3,187]

Didn't CD do a wright up about the dog and how it came to be and who he sold him to in one of the EDRD's.

 

And in a terrier year book why dose no one want to put cds name ?

[Tesco 28]

I wouldnt believe a word he said after what he did to F.S

[STUNTMAN 552]

In the beginning of this thread a member stated that he followed a link to an Americans site and he stated his dogs had no "Bull blood". First problem is the man has a site, right off not really ideal for the working terrier. Secondly many Americans dont dig their dogs but do "above ground terrier work" if there is such a thing. A man named Booth has gotten his claws into some men over here and they peddle his heavily influenced bull blooded terriers that dont fit in earths over here. Thats probably why that man stated that on his web sight.

Years ago I hunted the old Nuttal blood here in the States and it was very good. Most all litters you could get a worker out of and they would really lay it down out here. It got to the point for me that the dogs were to big and the lay up vet time on a coon or a woodchuck was so long that you needed 10 if you wanted to hunt allot which is what I was doing. Now with the Miner stuff and the rest of the black dogs here in the states its hard to find a good one period! I was told Nuttal put Staff in every 5 genarations withhis old stock. If you look at the red dog in the picks you could see it if you had eyes lol.

14 year Nuttal bred dog

two of my best GO GO and Gump 1989

Two dogs bred down from old Nuttal stock 1980s something

GO gO as as pup and yogi [red dog} quit after a bad raccoon both old Nuttal

Spider-right from BN one of the hardest terriers I've seen in the states.

Edited August 2, 2010 by STUNTMAN

[christian71 3,187]

In the beginning of this thread a member stated that he followed a link to an Americans site and he stated his dogs had no "Bull blood". First problem is the man has a site, right off not really ideal for the working terrier. Secondly many Americans don’t dig their dogs but do "above ground terrier work" if there is such a thing. A man named Booth has gotten his claws into some men over here and they peddle his heavily influenced bull blooded terriers that don’t fit in earths over here. That’s probably why that man stated that on his web sight.

Years ago I hunted the old Nuttal blood here in the States and it was very good. Most all litters you could get a worker out of and they would really lay it down out here. It got to the point for me that the dogs were to big and the lay up vet time on a coon or a woodchuck was so long that you needed 10 if you wanted to hunt allot which is what I was doing. Now with the Miner stuff and the rest of the black dogs here in the states it’s hard to find a good one period! I was told Nuttal put Staff in every 5 genarations withhis old stock. If you look at the red dog in the picks you could see it if you had eyes lol.

14 year Nuttal bred dog

two of my best GO GO and Gump 1989

Two dogs bred down from old Nuttal stock 1980s something

GO gO as as pup and yogi [red dog} quit after a bad raccoon both old Nuttal

Spider-right from BN one of the hardest terriers I've seen in the states.

 

Ive been to brians a few times and he bred black staffs also

 

i asked him if he ever crossed them with the patts

 

he said no

[STUNTMAN 552]

CH71-I believe you. I want to state I have no Ill will against BN as he gave us good sport over here for many years. The line of terriers I hunt today carry his old blood up front in the lines. I 'm talking now about dogs in the late 70's-80s. I've seen dogs that were under-shot, thin coats queen anne fronts and other stuff thats indictive of bull blood. Remember these dogs we had here were bred very very tight as we didnt have a big gene pool as there is now. So all them "bones" came up. ATB Stunt

[Limb 31]

Stuntman, sounds like you had what I'd class the last of the old stuff. What were the dogs you imported bred off?

[STUNTMAN 552]

I'll ad to, I don’t care if he did, as what ever his family did up to that point they were doing it right imo. I cant really comment personally on the miner stuff as I gave up hunt Patterdales like I said but from friends they always said it wasn’t like the old stuff. The name "miner" is haled here in the states or the phrase "Miner bred†or Nuttal bred. When the latter is spoken the question is always asked old or new? With that said some here in the States need a 'Name" to latch onto as it makes them feel better about there dog even though it wasn’t concocted by the breeder lol.> Stunt

[STUNTMAN 552]

Stuntman, sounds like you had what I'd class the last of the old stuff. What were the dogs you imported bred off?

Limb- A bitch called Maggie ,in the states called Magic by BN imported by Steve Kuper and a Male called Higgins that was imported by a Dr. Lowery I believe. They were the first two.