First rifle

[Whitby_Sam 4]

Can anybody recommend a first rifle for rabbiting and the occasional fox? I expect to be looking at Rimfire rather than Centrefire until I'm a little more proficient. Looking to spend as little as possible.

 

It would be used on a 140 acre permission I have but I'd eventually like an open licence.

 

I've been looking at .22 LR semi-autos but would welcome any advice. Would I be better trying for a .243 or a .22-250 for example? I don't really know much about rifles and there are so many different types I don't really know where to start.

I assume I'd also have to get the land passed for rifle use so I guess a lot depends on that too...

 

What I do know is that I'd want a moderator and a scope and I wouldn't want to be spending too much on ammo. It's unlikely I'll ever go deer stalking or indeed for anything bigger than a fox and my main quarry will be rabbits.

 

This is in theory at the moment as I haven't applied for my FAC. I'm a member of a target rifle club so know a bit about safe handling (on the range) but that's as far as my knowledge goes. Most of the people I've spoken to are range shooters and can offer little in the way of advice on real hunting.

 

Cheers in advance,

Sam

[njc110381 0]

What sort of range do you think you will need to shoot Foxes at? Although many may disagree (including your firearms officer even, depending on what force you're under) a .22lr will kill a Fox out to 40-50 yards or so quite easily and Rabbits out to or so sensibly. Ammunition for that is cheap, as are rifles. Energy from a .22lr is about 100ft-lbs and a body shot wont ruin the carcass if you want to eat the Rabbit? Rounds cost about 10p per shot.

 

Then you've got .17HMR. Another rimfire that will give you more range on the bunnies (150 yards) and about the same as a .22lr on Foxes. Body shots with that will make a bit of a mess but you can always head shoot them. The HMR gives about 250ft-lbs and costs about 25p per round.

 

You could go for .22WMR. A higher power rimfire that will give you a bit more range on the Foxes due to the higher energy, but because of the higher bullet weight it wont shoot as flat as a HMR, so maybe 120 yards on Rabbits and 100 yards or under on Fox. Energy is about 320ft-lbs and the cost is similar to HMR ammo.

 

If you want to go over 100 yards for Fox then a small centrefire is needed. The .22 Hornet is a good little round with a trajectory similar to the HMR. It will kill bunnies out to 250 yards and Fox out to 200. Energy from the Hornet is about 750ft-lbs so will rip a bunny in half if you body shoot it. Cost of ammo is about 50p per round for cheap PRVI up to about £1 per round for something better like Remington. It can be home loaded for 30p per round and the loading kit would set you back maybe £75. If you want one of these and will use it a lot, it's worth considering making your own rounds.

 

Up and above that there's .223. .22-250 etc. They will be good on Fox out to whatever range you can hit them but cost more to run and are too much for Bunnies (assuming you only want one rifle anyway). I wouldn't bother with anything that big for mainly bunny bashing, it will be expensive.

 

So, up to you really but those are the common choices.

[Treacle Trackpad 6]

Sam if you are in Whitby your license will most likely be open straight off the bat (North Yorks). With NY you won't get .22LR or .17HMR conditioned for fox which will leave you in CF territory. If you are predominately rabbiting you will need to base your choice around suitability and cost which would push my decision towards Hornet/Hornet K, .222 or one of the small cal CF's.

[njc110381 0]

A tub of powder costs about £50 these days. The .22 Hornet uses about ten grains per load and a .223 uses about 25. So you get less than half the number of loadings per tub if you go for .222 or .223.

 

Having said that if you just want to buy factory ammo then the cost difference between the two is small. Hornet is hugely expensive for what it is, but then I suppose the bulk of the cost of factory ammo is brass and bullet rather than powder.

 

You'll only really save money with a Hornet if you reload.

[Whitby_Sam 4]

Why wouldn't I get .22LR for fox? It's a perfectly good claibre for foxing isn't it? It seems like by far the cheapest option and appears to have enough power to take down even a large fox at a reasonable range...

[matt_hooks 188]

Sam sam sam! You really have put your foot in the hornets nest with that one!

 

In theory, a .22LR with standard velocity amunition has sufficient energy to kill a fox out to 60 or 70 yards. HOWEVER that leaves you very little leeway for a slight misplacement of shot. The wound track from a .22LR is not wide, and so unless you manage to place the shot precisely into a major organ, such as the heart or brain (surprisingly small targets on a fox) the chances are that you will end up wounding the animal.

 

I have no qualms about using .22LR at short ranges, where I can guarantee where the shot is going to go and ensure a humane kill, but anything more than 40 yards is pushing things.

 

The more powerful rounds give a much wider wound track, and transfer far more energy to the animal, helping to ensure a fast loss of consciousness and death even if the bullet is slightly misplaced.

 

My certificate for the .22LR is conditioned to cover "ALL LEGAL QUARRY". So I can legally take fox with it. Whether I would depends hugely on the conditions, range, wind conditions, even the condition of the animal.

 

Any hunter should be aiming for two things when hunting. Firstly safety. The .22LR is a fairly "safe" round as long as it's treated with respect. Ricochets happen, but tend to lose so much energy that they are not dangerous.

 

Secondly, you should be aiming for a humane kill. Planning for this starts when applying for the licence. If you intend to take foxes, then you need to be sure that you have the tools to do it quickly and with minimal suffering. I would contend that heading out to shoot foxes with a .22LR is irresponsible, as it's not enough gun to ensure a clean humane kill!

[Whitby_Sam 4]

Sam sam sam! You really have put your foot in the hornets nest with that one!

 

In theory, a .22LR with standard velocity amunition has sufficient energy to kill a fox out to 60 or 70 yards. HOWEVER that leaves you very little leeway for a slight misplacement of shot. The wound track from a .22LR is not wide, and so unless you manage to place the shot precisely into a major organ, such as the heart or brain (surprisingly small targets on a fox) the chances are that you will end up wounding the animal.

 

I have no qualms about using .22LR at short ranges, where I can guarantee where the shot is going to go and ensure a humane kill, but anything more than 40 yards is pushing things.

 

The more powerful rounds give a much wider wound track, and transfer far more energy to the animal, helping to ensure a fast loss of consciousness and death even if the bullet is slightly misplaced.

 

My certificate for the .22LR is conditioned to cover "ALL LEGAL QUARRY". So I can legally take fox with it. Whether I would depends hugely on the conditions, range, wind conditions, even the condition of the animal.

 

Any hunter should be aiming for two things when hunting. Firstly safety. The .22LR is a fairly "safe" round as long as it's treated with respect. Ricochets happen, but tend to lose so much energy that they are not dangerous.

 

Secondly, you should be aiming for a humane kill. Planning for this starts when applying for the licence. If you intend to take foxes, then you need to be sure that you have the tools to do it quickly and with minimal suffering. I would contend that heading out to shoot foxes with a .22LR is irresponsible, as it's not enough gun to ensure a clean humane kill!

 

So I'd be better off getting the .22LR for bunny bashing only? I don't want to cause any unnecessary suffering to anything, nor do I want to rip my dinner in half. I'm just going to have to accept that its different guns for different jobs. I don't yet have my FAC and can't imagine I'd get a CF straight off... I think I'll forget the foxing for now (unless they get REALLY close) and instead save up until I can afford the right rifle to do a humane job. As much as I hate foxes (I'm a free range poultry farmer)I don't want them to suffer.

 

.22LR will be my first purchase, followed by a .223 or a .243 when I'm a bit more proficient.

[matt_hooks 188]

If you have the land to shoot over, and a good reason to hold (and being a poultry farmer I'd say foxes were pretty high on your agenda) then there's no reason the police should turn you down for a CF. If you're in doubt, have a word with the BASC firearms department, they will help you out if you are a member.

 

Don't let the police bully you into putting in an application that's not what you want!

 

As an aside, if you go for a .22 WMR instead of a .22lr (it's the same calibre so the same on the FAC) then you will have the best of both worlds. Foxes safely out to 60 or so yards, and bunnies happily out past 100 yards.

[Whitby_Sam 4]

If you have the land to shoot over, and a good reason to hold (and being a poultry farmer I'd say foxes were pretty high on your agenda) then there's no reason the police should turn you down for a CF. If you're in doubt, have a word with the BASC firearms department, they will help you out if you are a member.

 

Don't let the police bully you into putting in an application that's not what you want!

 

As an aside, if you go for a .22 WMR instead of a .22lr (it's the same calibre so the same on the FAC) then you will have the best of both worlds. Foxes safely out to 60 or so yards, and bunnies happily out past 100 yards.

 

Is WMR ammunition as cheap and readily available as .22LR? If so then that's probably what I'll do as long as I can find a rifle, scope and mod within my limited budget.

 

I've seen a good .22 LR outfit, is there a way of securing it before I get my FAC? Would a firearms dealer be able to store it for me? Or my local rifle club? Its too good a price to miss, may even get that and then start saving for a WMR

[Colster 1]

 

Is WMR ammunition as cheap and readily available as .22LR? If so then that's probably what I'll do as long as I can find a rifle, scope and mod within my limited budget.

 

I've seen a good .22 LR outfit, is there a way of securing it before I get my FAC? Would a firearms dealer be able to store it for me? Or my local rifle club? Its too good a price to miss, may even get that and then start saving for a WMR

 

Nothing (with the exception of FAC Air ammo) is as cheap as LR ammo, it really all depends on your FEO and what his views are on suitable calibres for fox. The LR is in my view the ultimate bunny gun, it does that so well I'm not fussed if it's a bit of a one trick pony although I wouldn't dispute it's capability to put down a fox, there are better tools for the job.

 

As you're a chicken farmer I would imagine you'd be able to get a CF on first grant (again it all depends on the FLO/FEO in your area), they may want to limit it to something smaller than the most popular, small deer capable CF's (.223/.22-250 etc) and suggest something like a .22Hornet, .204Ruger or similar.

 

If your FEO would agree, I'd suggest WMR would probably be your best bet.

 

LR's aren't especially dear anyway, brand new you're looking about £320-350, little more for an HMR, but an RFD would usually agree to hold a gun while you wait for the FAC to be processed.

[kingnewport 19]

Oh no, it's starded again. Just get a 17hmr . Job done

Edited July 31, 2010 by kingnewport

[Whitby_Sam 4]

Oh no, it's starded again. Just get a 17hmr . Job done

Would a .17HMR take down a fox at range?

[kingnewport 19]

Oh god yer, nothing stupid tho , yard I'd say. (some people will disagree tho) Also bunnies out to 120 yards and further! But I always like to get as close as possible in every case

[Whitby_Sam 4]

Oh god yer, nothing stupid tho , yard I'd say. (some people will disagree tho) Also bunnies out to 120 yards and further! But I always like to get as close as possible in every case

How much is .17HMR ammunition? I notice the rifles are slightly more expensive, if the ammo is a similar price I may consider one...

[Colster 1]

£7 per 100 for .22LR Winchester Subs and £18 for Hornady 17gn V-Max for the HMR. Prices will vary from shop to shop and some will do discounts for bulk but this is what I paid this week for 3 boxes of each.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Colster