Newbottle Farm

[zini 1,939]

Hi Mark

 

Thank you for them kind words mate, and I’m so glad that you learnt something from my visit.

 

Regarding your shooting mate, I was speaking to DavyT on the phone yesterday and i told him how you smashed them bull’s eyes and hit the drawing pin with your HW97K.

 

Not everyone could have done that and made it look as easy as you did mate, its taken me many years of practice and hard work to shoot drawing pins consistantly with a springer and you did it without trying really . I think that you are a naturally talented, and gifted good shot Mark.

 

With a bit more help from someone with the skill and know how of DavyT i think that you have the natural raw talent to make some super shots and really reduce the millions of vermin on your pig farm pal.

 

Thanks again for being a gent Mark and sharing your fab permission with me .

 

Hi Wurz,

 

You cant blame the Kraut mate, she is a beauty and will bag vermin for you like a market stall holder sells pick and mix

 

It wont be long now pal 7 days and she will be at yours.

 

Hey there is nothing wrong with Marks farm wellies . I looked like a escaped convict from Alcatraz but the rats didn’t seem to mind :dance:

 

See you soon pal

 

Si

Edited July 10, 2010 by zini

[gurtwurz 792]

righty ho si, i guess i'll just have to blame my own trembling hands as usual then buddy

lookin forwards to your visit mate, all the best, wurz

Edited July 10, 2010 by gurtwurz

[dogvixen01 34]

I HAVE READ MANY OF YOUR ARTICLES ,AND YOU SEEM TO BE VERY WELL THOUGHT OF ,BUT WAS DISSAPPOINTED WITH THIS ARTICLE .THE REASON BEING AS YOU SAID YOURSELF,SHOOTING WITH A SUB 12 FT LB AT THESE RANGES IS CRAZY . I CAN ONLY HOPE NO ONE TRIES THE SAME THING.ALTHOUGH YOU ARE SHOOTING AT VERMIN,AT THOSE DISTANCES THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN GUARANTEE A CLEAN HIT OR KILL.THIS IS JUST MY HONEST OPINION .

[zini 1,939]

Hi Dogvixen,

 

Thats true what you wrote above mate and i agree 100 percent with your point mate

 

I too hope that not everyone tries these kind of shots .(shots are now edited).

 

No shot with any sub 12 fp rifle either PCP or springer can be guarenteed from a standing shot at 60 metres, no matter how good you think you are as a shooter.

 

I am also a big fan of the shooting a group of 3 to 5 shots within a 25mm kill zone to work out what a the maximun effective range you can shoot at is.

 

The difference here was that i knew that due to me being on x14 mag where the wobble is maximized by x14 times and due to the position of the rabbit which only had its head showing due to being in a dip and long grass i was either going to get a clean humane kill or a total miss either over the top or below the bunny into the grass.

 

If i thought that i was going to wound the bunny i wouldnt have attempted the shot mate, im experienced enough to have self control.

 

The wind was perfect and the i was feeling very confident, plus i know my own ability alot better than anyone else, and after shooting a springer in Germany 100% of the time (AA ProSport) at a club i have refined my technique alot more than i had when i was in the UK last year. This as made me alot better shot than i was before.

 

This morning i also shot a 48 metre magpie from a standing shot hitting it straight in the brain with a un tuned HW95K.

 

Again i knew my own ability and the conditions were perfect. 48 metres is within my shooting ability.

 

As said i see and understand your point mate and will stop posting these kind of posts from now on as i see some people get upset and i dont wish to get this kind of reaction from readers.

 

Ill just post the normal Air Gun world / Air Gunner 30 yard / 27 metres shots which alot of shooters actually think is the maximun range for sub 12 FP rifles .

 

Sorry to have dissapointed you mate, ill edit the original post now so not to upset any more readers.

 

i hope you have no hard feelings pal?

 

Si

 

Origianl post now has been edited pal

Edited July 10, 2010 by zini

[markha 99]

Zini - couldnt agree more about the missconception of the 30yards range.

I think it has always been suggested that this is the range at which you can get accurate shot placement out to 40 yards and down to 10 yards without hold over/under as in the old days most people had standard cross hair scopes, but with the advent of mildots and range finders etc more people are becoming aware that its not so difficult to use hold over/under and windage these days for hunting once you have figured out how much you need on your gun and not how much a ballistics programme tells you that you need ( software works for bullets and not so good for pellets) your video about working out milldot hold over/under is something that everyone should watch and then repeat with their own rifle, never trust the software for it on a pellet gun.

 

Cheers

Mark

[zini 1,939]

Cheers mark buddy

 

Ive edited the original post now, The ranges now are dropped, but as they say mate "take one for the team, i have".

 

Its true what you said about technology pal.

 

I use a laser range finder (now fixed thank goodness) and i use a calibrated specilized reticle 12 (SR 12. which gives me precise aim point to 60 metres from a 25 metres set zero.

 

Im not a bad shot anyway so can shoot fairly straight and sometimes when the conditions are correct and im feeling good i make some half decent shots.

 

Thanks again

 

Si

Edited July 10, 2010 by zini

[Sweeney-Todd 208]

Hi Dogvixen.

 

You are absolutly right mate, ZINI is highly thought of here.

 

You would hope that every individual hunter would know his/her own abilities and marksmanship skill's, and stay within what they personaly consider to be thier limmits as far as effective hunting range is concerned.

 

Some hunter's/shooters have many years of experience, and hour upon hour, of shooting practice under thier belt, this is hard earnt experience, and dedication.

 

This calibre of hunter is able to take the longer shot's, because being an experienced and practiced MARKSMAN, he will wiegh up the proberbilites of a kill before loosing EVERY shot.

If in doubt, he would not take the shot.

 

Some hunters also take great strides in perfecting not just thier personal skill, but the equiptment they hunt and shoot with.

They add things such as Range finders etc, and spend hour's perfecting thier hunting set up,to include tuning, with one aim in mind, to produce as humane a shot on the quarry as often as possible, and with confidence.

 

ZINI IS THAT STANDARD OF HUNTER.

 

Yes, people will aspire to achieve the longer shot's, that's called progression, as experience and confidence/knowlage improves, the longer ranges can be possible.

But patience common sense must also be applied.

 

 

I have said this before, and will say it again, no matter how good a markman/shot you think you are, you will NEVER be able to predict the actions of your chosen live quarry, it could move just a fraction of an inch, after the shot is released, and move the POI and result in a unwanted less than perfect shot placment, although EVERY effort has been made by the shooter.

 

This can happen at 20 OR 60 yds, so EVERYONE is liable to experience it.

 

All of the REGULARS who visit here, have an appreciation of each others abilities, because we SHARE our hunting experiences with each other, we HELP each other, and grow together.

 

If you make the effort to come here more often, you may get to appreciate what Im talking about, and also get to know the guy's.

 

I personaly admire the Skill of Zini, and hope he CONTINUES to share his wealth of knowlage and shooting experiences with us all, be it at 20yds or 60 yds !!

 

GOOD SHOOTING AND MARKMANSHIP SKILlS SI......looking forward to your next post.

 

 

 

 

Bill.

[gurtwurz 792]

as above! personally i dont shoot past 35 yds cos my marksmanship isnt up to it yet, but si is known as a bloody cracking shot and has the skills many of us aspire to, so rather than being dismayed that he takes CALCULATED long range shots i find it kinda inspiring that with lots of practice and experience us lesser mortals can achieve a higher standard of shooting than the average, but the emphasis is on practice and experience first. si's helped out a lot of guys on here with his extensive experience, so if he thinks a shot is withinhis ability then he should take it, he's not encouraging anyone else to shoot beyond their skill level, he's simply relating his own trips out. this forum's known for its common sense approach to shooting and there are some excellent marksmen here, why should they not relate their outings if theyre treating their quarry with respect, even at extreme range?

all the best, wurz

[zini 1,939]

Cheers Bill and Wurz lads .

 

I didnt think of it like you both put it, but you are both right if you look at it from that angle lads

 

I did mean what i said though and that was if i didnt think i couldnt of made the shot i wouldnt of released the second stage.

 

You 2 are really good friends and i really totally respect your loyaly to me and the other regs on this site.

 

Si

[Phantom 631]

yeah i use the bottle guage never filled to 190 for fear of over filling what distance do you use for a zero? maybe i have a problem with the rifle because on a 180 charge it chrono s at 10.4 -6 with aa feild plus 18 grain an when it gets 170 or less its 11.5-7 is this normal my boys 400 classic is 11.5 full up to 11.9 on the sweet spot? maybe i will get the combro out an run it all again i have just bought 500 16 grain superdomes.

 

Fry,

 

Every unregulated PCP has what is known as a 'power curve'.

If you fill your rifle to the Max it states on the air cylinder then the hammer will find it harder to open the valve long enough for the correct amount of air to be released for optimum power.

I can fill my rifle to 210 bar, but wont do it

At the top end of the pressure curve you will find that every shot is very inconsistant in both velovity and accuracy

As the fill pressure becomes lower (more acceptable for the hammer mech) more air is allowed out as the pressure does not close the valve prematurely, this is what is the start of the "sweet spot" once you have entered the sweetspot, you will find that your shots become very consistant in both velocity and accuracy until the pressure inside the air cylinder drops beyond what it was actually designed for.

Using my S200 I fill my air cylinder to 185 bar, I then fire a few shots off. Then I begin to check Zero.

My sweet spot on my baby is between her le.. erm no sorry

My S200's sweet spot is between 180 and 100 Bar so I dont shoot any live quarry until I know I'm in the sweet spot.

This gives me 40 to 50 accurate shots at a power I know I can use perfectly.

 

It sound from your post your sweetspot starts at 170 bar, so don't waste your time filling to over 175 as your shots will be erratic.

 

Phantom

[Phantom 631]

Right, Just read the rest of the thread and I'm with you boys

 

I know I am an accomplished Marksman, but it was only after reading a lot of Si's (ZINI's) posts that I began to stretch myself, like wurz, I wouldn't shoot past 30 yards because that was the range I was lead to believe was the max by the mags!

 

Well after shooting paper and metal for a few years both pistol and rifle, I joined here and began to realize that people were shooting longer ranges than the reccomended 'newbies' range that had become a standard.

 

I began experimenting, and realisezed I could take shots out to 45 yards with a 30/30 ret and make good clean kills. I then got a mildot and using CGP (ballistics program)

I quickly realized I could take shots out to 60 or so if conditions were right.

Incidently, I used CGP to give me a good guide, I was thrilled to find my field results were almost perfect matches to the program results.

 

I've now had numerous clean kills out to 65 meters

 

Funnily enough, I've fluffed more 30 yard shots than I've fluffed at over 45 despite having my zero at 30 yards.

Perhaps this is because anything over the standard 30 yard range, I have to seriously think about the possibilities of the shot going off due to the wind etc...? therefore I dont pull the trigger unless I am confident AND the conditions have been taken into account.

 

When teaching or advising new shooters; I tell them to stick to no more than 30 yards; 35 if the conditions are right.

But when they are ready, I'll advise them to take longer shots on paper before they think about live quarry.

 

SI'

I hope you continue to post your long shots, they have been an inspiration to me just as I know they have been to others.

If it upsets people, so be it One day they are going to want to take their marksmanship skills to the next level, just as the rest of us have. Your posts will continue to inspire shooters to improve their Marksmanship.

 

Phantom (spa awarded to Si and Bill)

[zini 1,939]

Thanks Tony,

 

That was a very honest and heart felt reply.

 

Wait till you meet Reggaeman Tony (Chris). Then you will see a good shot mate.

 

If i could shoot a bit like him i would be happy.

 

 

Si

Edited July 10, 2010 by zini

[dogvixen01 34]

Hi Dogvixen,

 

Thats true what you wrote above mate and i agree 100 percent with your point mate

 

I too hope that not everyone tries these kind of shots .(shots are now edited).

 

No shot with any sub 12 fp rifle either PCP or springer can be guarenteed from a standing shot at 60 metres, no matter how good you think you are as a shooter.

 

I am also a big fan of the shooting a group of 3 to 5 shots within a 25mm kill zone to work out what a the maximun effective range you can shoot at is.

 

The difference here was that i knew that due to me being on x14 mag where the wobble is maximized by x14 times and due to the position of the rabbit which only had its head showing due to being in a dip and long grass i was either going to get a clean humane kill or a total miss either over the top or below the bunny into the grass.

 

If i thought that i was going to wound the bunny i wouldnt have attempted the shot mate, im experienced enough to have self control.

 

The wind was perfect and the i was feeling very confident, plus i know my own ability alot better than anyone else, and after shooting a springer in Germany 100% of the time (AA ProSport) at a club i have refined my technique alot more than i had when i was in the UK last year. This as made me alot better shot than i was before.

 

This morning i also shot a 48 metre magpie from a standing shot hitting it straight in the brain with a un tuned HW95K.

 

Again i knew my own ability and the conditions were perfect. 48 metres is within my shooting ability.

 

As said i see and understand your point mate and will stop posting these kind of posts from now on as i see some people get upset and i dont wish to get this kind of reaction from readers.

 

Ill just post the normal Air Gun world / Air Gunner 30 yard / 27 metres shots which alot of shooters actually think is the maximun range for sub 12 FP rifles .

 

Sorry to have dissapointed you mate, ill edit the original post now so not to upset any more readers.

 

i hope you have no hard feelings pal?

 

Si

 

Origianl post now has been edited pal

 

I HAVE NO HARD FEELINGS Si AS I BELIEVE YOU ARE AN EXCELENT SHOT ,AND WILLING TO PASS ON ANY OF YOUR EXPERIENCES TO HELP ANYONE WHO HAS PROBLEMS WITH ANYTHING RELATED TO AIRGUN SHOOTING.THE REASON I RESPONDED TO YOUR ORIGINAL ARTICLE IS I ONLY RARELY SHOOT WITH AN AIRGUN,AND AM ALWAYS LOOKING TO GAIN MORE KNOWLEDGE FROM PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND OTHER REGULAR CONTRIBUTORS.I ENJOY YOUR POSTS.THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IS THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM,AND ANYONE WHO CONTRIBUTES A POST,WHATEVER THE SUBJECT , MUST MAKE SURE IT IS A RESPONSIBLE ONE,AS IT CAN BE USED BY ANYONE WHO IS AN ANTI HUNT PERSON FOR OTHER MEANS.ALSO THERE ARE OTHER NOVICES LIKE MYSELF,AND PROBABLY A LOT OF YOUNGSTERS WHO READ YOUR POSTS AND I FELT IT NEEDED TO BE EDITED .I HOPE YOU CARRY ON WITH YOUR EXCELENT POSTS AND LOOK FORWARD TO READING SOME MORE FROM YOU ..I ONLY WISH I LIVED NEARER TO YOU AND COULD ACTUALLY COME AND SEE YOU IN ACTION,GOOD LUCK.

[fry 209]

Right, Just read the rest of the thread and I'm with you boys

 

I know I am an accomplished Marksman, but it was only after reading a lot of Si's (ZINI's) posts that I began to stretch myself, like wurz, I wouldn't shoot past 30 yards because that was the range I was lead to believe was the max by the mags!

 

Well after shooting paper and metal for a few years both pistol and rifle, I joined here and began to realize that people were shooting longer ranges than the reccomended 'newbies' range that had become a standard.

 

I began experimenting, and realisezed I could take shots out to 45 yards with a 30/30 ret and make good clean kills. I then got a mildot and using CGP (ballistics program)

I quickly realized I could take shots out to 60 or so if conditions were right.

Incidently, I used CGP to give me a good guide, I was thrilled to find my field results were almost perfect matches to the program results.

 

I've now had numerous clean kills out to 65 meters

 

Funnily enough, I've fluffed more 30 yard shots than I've fluffed at over 45 despite having my zero at 30 yards.

Perhaps this is because anything over the standard 30 yard range, I have to seriously think about the possibilities of the shot going off due to the wind etc...? therefore I dont pull the trigger unless I am confident AND the conditions have been taken into account.

 

When teaching or advising new shooters; I tell them to stick to no more than 30 yards; 35 if the conditions are right.

But when they are ready, I'll advise them to take longer shots on paper before they think about live quarry.

 

SI'

I hope you continue to post your long shots, they have been an inspiration to me just as I know they have been to others.

If it upsets people, so be it One day they are going to want to take their marksmanship skills to the next level, just as the rest of us have. Your posts will continue to inspire shooters to improve their Marksmanship.

 

Phantom (spa awarded to Si and Bill)

have to agree with this one responsible shooting is shooting within what you believe your capabilities are i have told my lad on a few occasions to leave it for fear of not getting a clean kill and have left things myself. but as both our levels of skill and knowledge increase given the right conditions we are stretching the distances slighty. zini certainly knows his stuff and i personally being a novice have learnt a fair bit from his posts.

[Ron Weasley 83]

I'm with the rest of you guys. Zini has proved time and time again what a great shot he is, and as we all know, has complete faith and confidence in his equipment and ability.

 

Keep at it Si.