dog genetics

[Hannah4181 260]

Great thread.

 

I don't have much knowledge of genetics, but will give you an example of the randomness of it!

 

Whilst growing up we had a broken coated (But unusually long coated) male JRT . . . now he was my dog and i selected him out of the litter at 5 weeks old because he had a broken coat, his 6 siblings were smooth coat like the dam and sire.

 

The dog was used to sire 2 litters in his life time, Both times put to smooth coat russel bitches . . . all pups, 6 in the first litter, 7 in the second, were smooth coat. Now a few years later one of the pups out of the second litter, sired another smooth coated bitch and in the litter was 1 very broken coated pup, male, identical to his grandad.

 

I remember my dad at the time being fascinated by this and tracing the history of our dogs dam and sire . . sure enough the grandad to our terrier was exactly the same in coat type and colour.

 

So the gene that threw those broken coated pups skipped a generation and on both occasions threw just 1 pup per litter, both male and both identically marked! HOW?!?!?!

[riohog 5,721]

Great thread.

 

I don't have much knowledge of genetics, but will give you an example of the randomness of it!

 

Whilst growing up we had a broken coated (But unusually long coated) male JRT . . . now he was my dog and i selected him out of the litter at 5 weeks old because he had a broken coat, his 6 siblings were smooth coat like the dam and sire.

 

The dog was used to sire 2 litters in his life time, Both times put to smooth coat russel bitches . . . all pups, 6 in the first litter, 7 in the second, were smooth coat. Now a few years later one of the pups out of the second litter, sired another smooth coated bitch and in the litter was 1 very broken coated pup, male, identical to his grandad.

 

I remember my dad at the time being fascinated by this and tracing the history of our dogs dam and sire . . sure enough the grandad to our terrier was exactly the same in coat type and colour.

 

So the gene that threw those broken coated pups skipped a generation and on both occasions threw just 1 pup per litter, both male and both identically marked! HOW?!?!?!

real good example hannah and one of the reasons i think its very inportant to look back at as many generations as possible when aquiring dogs and esspesially breeding .. could well be some rlly good stuff in past generations / or bad .. which you need to know about

[romany52 313]

Great thread.

 

I don't have much knowledge of genetics, but will give you an example of the randomness of it!

 

Whilst growing up we had a broken coated (But unusually long coated) male JRT . . . now he was my dog and i selected him out of the litter at 5 weeks old because he had a broken coat, his 6 siblings were smooth coat like the dam and sire.

 

The dog was used to sire 2 litters in his life time, Both times put to smooth coat russel bitches . . . all pups, 6 in the first litter, 7 in the second, were smooth coat. Now a few years later one of the pups out of the second litter, sired another smooth coated bitch and in the litter was 1 very broken coated pup, male, identical to his grandad.

 

I remember my dad at the time being fascinated by this and tracing the history of our dogs dam and sire . . sure enough the grandad to our terrier was exactly the same in coat type and colour.

 

So the gene that threw those broken coated pups skipped a generation and on both occasions threw just 1 pup per litter, both male and both identically marked! HOW?!?!?!

 

The broken coat gene was obviously recessive to the smooth gene. It didn't skip a generation, it was there all the time, just overpowered by the dominant smooth gene,until it randomly got paired with, either the same broken coat gene or another gene recessive to it.

[Hannah4181 260]

Great thread.

 

I don't have much knowledge of genetics, but will give you an example of the randomness of it!

 

Whilst growing up we had a broken coated (But unusually long coated) male JRT . . . now he was my dog and i selected him out of the litter at 5 weeks old because he had a broken coat, his 6 siblings were smooth coat like the dam and sire.

 

The dog was used to sire 2 litters in his life time, Both times put to smooth coat russel bitches . . . all pups, 6 in the first litter, 7 in the second, were smooth coat. Now a few years later one of the pups out of the second litter, sired another smooth coated bitch and in the litter was 1 very broken coated pup, male, identical to his grandad.

 

I remember my dad at the time being fascinated by this and tracing the history of our dogs dam and sire . . sure enough the grandad to our terrier was exactly the same in coat type and colour.

 

So the gene that threw those broken coated pups skipped a generation and on both occasions threw just 1 pup per litter, both male and both identically marked! HOW?!?!?!

 

The broken coat gene was obviously recessive to the smooth gene. It didn't skip a generation, it was there all the time, just overpowered by the dominant smooth gene,until it randomly got paired with, either the same broken coat gene or another gene recessive to it.

 

 

That makes sense, thank you. Would that also explain the fact that all three broken pups over the generations were male and identically marked? That was the weird bit for me!

[romany52 313]

Great thread.

 

I don't have much knowledge of genetics, but will give you an example of the randomness of it!

 

Whilst growing up we had a broken coated (But unusually long coated) male JRT . . . now he was my dog and i selected him out of the litter at 5 weeks old because he had a broken coat, his 6 siblings were smooth coat like the dam and sire.

 

The dog was used to sire 2 litters in his life time, Both times put to smooth coat russel bitches . . . all pups, 6 in the first litter, 7 in the second, were smooth coat. Now a few years later one of the pups out of the second litter, sired another smooth coated bitch and in the litter was 1 very broken coated pup, male, identical to his grandad.

 

I remember my dad at the time being fascinated by this and tracing the history of our dogs dam and sire . . sure enough the grandad to our terrier was exactly the same in coat type and colour.

 

So the gene that threw those broken coated pups skipped a generation and on both occasions threw just 1 pup per litter, both male and both identically marked! HOW?!?!?!

 

The broken coat gene was obviously recessive to the smooth gene. It didn't skip a generation, it was there all the time, just overpowered by the dominant smooth gene,until it randomly got paired with, either the same broken coat gene or another gene recessive to it.

 

 

That makes sense, thank you. Would that also explain the fact that all three broken pups over the generations were male and identically marked? That was the weird bit for me!

 

I would suggest, them all being male, as coincidence, the markings no doubt, genetic.

[mucky paws 495]

i would say the dog is more prominent in the breeding that is why we all look to use a top class stud dog and all round good worker . i am not saying that the bitch does not matter as she does.but we tend to look at the stud as been the main stay. like when you breed a first cross most will use beddy, collie, deerhound dog etc over say maybe over greyhoud bitch,. most deffinet bull - dog over whatever bitch for a bit of bottle. what each gives is very hard to determin you would have to possibly own both parents and now exactly their ways and see what passes on to the pups

yeah i did mention earlier in th thread if its 50/50 why are the stud /sire more sought after

 

seems that way in all /most amimals perseaved that the male is more inportant ,and the stud,s demand the high fees for mating!!

without been slated on here i would say you could but a good stud/sire over a not such a good damm and have some top pups. example use a crap greyhound bitch the likes that they give away providing you get the best stud you can you will end up with good pups- true been proofed countless times

ok but would it work the other way round very good bitch ..average dog!! not sure i have always used top stud dogs with proven work behind them so cant really answer this. a good topic riohog, any special reason why you posted it are you going to breed maybe

no specific reason just interested .. in exactly what inhereted traits are passed by which sex male or female wheather good /or bad the more i thought about it the more i wasnt really sure

good post i always found if you bred genuine first cross full saluki to greyhound bitch you got good speed,the other way round they tend to be slower,...

[riohog 5,721]

i would say the dog is more prominent in the breeding that is why we all look to use a top class stud dog and all round good worker . i am not saying that the bitch does not matter as she does.but we tend to look at the stud as been the main stay. like when you breed a first cross most will use beddy, collie, deerhound dog etc over say maybe over greyhoud bitch,. most deffinet bull - dog over whatever bitch for a bit of bottle. what each gives is very hard to determin you would have to possibly own both parents and now exactly their ways and see what passes on to the pups

yeah i did mention earlier in th thread if its 50/50 why are the stud /sire more sought after

 

seems that way in all /most amimals perseaved that the male is more inportant ,and the stud,s demand the high fees for mating!!

without been slated on here i would say you could but a good stud/sire over a not such a good damm and have some top pups. example use a crap greyhound bitch the likes that they give away providing you get the best stud you can you will end up with good pups- true been proofed countless times

ok but would it work the other way round very good bitch ..average dog!! not sure i have always used top stud dogs with proven work behind them so cant really answer this. a good topic riohog, any special reason why you posted it are you going to breed maybe

no specific reason just interested .. in exactly what inhereted traits are passed by which sex male or female wheather good /or bad the more i thought about it the more i wasnt really sure

good post i always found if you bred genuine first cross full saluki to greyhound bitch you got good speed,the other way round they tend to be slower,...

fair point ,but its a damed sight easier to get hold of grey bitches ,than saluki bitches ,and a bloody lot cheeper

[mucky paws 495]

i would say the dog is more prominent in the breeding that is why we all look to use a top class stud dog and all round good worker . i am not saying that the bitch does not matter as she does.but we tend to look at the stud as been the main stay. like when you breed a first cross most will use beddy, collie, deerhound dog etc over say maybe over greyhoud bitch,. most deffinet bull - dog over whatever bitch for a bit of bottle. what each gives is very hard to determin you would have to possibly own both parents and now exactly their ways and see what passes on to the pups

yeah i did mention earlier in th thread if its 50/50 why are the stud /sire more sought after

 

seems that way in all /most amimals perseaved that the male is more inportant ,and the stud,s demand the high fees for mating!!

without been slated on here i would say you could but a good stud/sire over a not such a good damm and have some top pups. example use a crap greyhound bitch the likes that they give away providing you get the best stud you can you will end up with good pups- true been proofed countless times

ok but would it work the other way round very good bitch ..average dog!! not sure i have always used top stud dogs with proven work behind them so cant really answer this. a good topic riohog, any special reason why you posted it are you going to breed maybe

no specific reason just interested .. in exactly what inhereted traits are passed by which sex male or female wheather good /or bad the more i thought about it the more i wasnt really sure

good post i always found if you bred genuine first cross full saluki to greyhound bitch you got good speed,the other way round they tend to be slower,...

fair point ,but its a damed sight easier to get hold of grey bitches ,than saluki bitches ,and a bloody lot cheeper

yes sure itis,but we had grey and sal bitches in our yard but we would always go with the grey bitch,

[riohog 5,721]

i would say the dog is more prominent in the breeding that is why we all look to use a top class stud dog and all round good worker . i am not saying that the bitch does not matter as she does.but we tend to look at the stud as been the main stay. like when you breed a first cross most will use beddy, collie, deerhound dog etc over say maybe over greyhoud bitch,. most deffinet bull - dog over whatever bitch for a bit of bottle. what each gives is very hard to determin you would have to possibly own both parents and now exactly their ways and see what passes on to the pups

yeah i did mention earlier in th thread if its 50/50 why are the stud /sire more sought after

 

seems that way in all /most amimals perseaved that the male is more inportant ,and the stud,s demand the high fees for mating!!

without been slated on here i would say you could but a good stud/sire over a not such a good damm and have some top pups. example use a crap greyhound bitch the likes that they give away providing you get the best stud you can you will end up with good pups- true been proofed countless times

ok but would it work the other way round very good bitch ..average dog!! not sure i have always used top stud dogs with proven work behind them so cant really answer this. a good topic riohog, any special reason why you posted it are you going to breed maybe

no specific reason just interested .. in exactly what inhereted traits are passed by which sex male or female wheather good /or bad the more i thought about it the more i wasnt really sure

good post i always found if you bred genuine first cross full saluki to greyhound bitch you got good speed,the other way round they tend to be slower,...

fair point ,but its a damed sight easier to get hold of grey bitches ,than saluki bitches ,and a bloody lot cheeper

yes sure itis,but we had grey and sal bitches in our yard but we would always go with the grey bitch,

[mucky paws 495]

i would say the dog is more prominent in the breeding that is why we all look to use a top class stud dog and all round good worker . i am not saying that the bitch does not matter as she does.but we tend to look at the stud as been the main stay. like when you breed a first cross most will use beddy, collie, deerhound dog etc over say maybe over greyhoud bitch,. most deffinet bull - dog over whatever bitch for a bit of bottle. what each gives is very hard to determin you would have to possibly own both parents and now exactly their ways and see what passes on to the pups

yeah i did mention earlier in th thread if its 50/50 why are the stud /sire more sought after

 

seems that way in all /most amimals perseaved that the male is more inportant ,and the stud,s demand the high fees for mating!!

without been slated on here i would say you could but a good stud/sire over a not such a good damm and have some top pups. example use a crap greyhound bitch the likes that they give away providing you get the best stud you can you will end up with good pups- true been proofed countless times

ok but would it work the other way round very good bitch ..average dog!! not sure i have always used top stud dogs with proven work behind them so cant really answer this. a good topic riohog, any special reason why you posted it are you going to breed maybe

no specific reason just interested .. in exactly what inhereted traits are passed by which sex male or female wheather good /or bad the more i thought about it the more i wasnt really sure

good post i always found if you bred genuine first cross full saluki to greyhound bitch you got good speed,the other way round they tend to be slower,...

fair point ,but its a damed sight easier to get hold of grey bitches ,than saluki bitches ,and a bloody lot cheeper

yes sure itis,but we had grey and sal bitches in our yard but we would always go with the grey bitch,

not much help to your orignal question lol

[BULL 96]

would never line breed not into that . what i do is to as i have said before get the best stud dog i can and to try and repilcate my bitch by keping back the pup that is most like her mother as she was as a pup

 

thats ok if your just after a bitch to "look like " the original bitch (feno type ) i think is the word for that type of breeding ,but the charicteristics of the dog could be completly different ,if as you say you want to "replicate the bitch" by this i presume you mean for her working attributes gamness,speed ,tennacity etc as i belive most people who breed out of there bitch want to keep a pup that is an equal or preferably better dog than its parent and also you carry on the line. then it is my belief you have to line breed to "replicate " any dog you breed out of as the further away from the original bitch you go to none related studs ie to her daughter and daughters daughter with each stud being the best in the country at that time .always taking the pup which looked most like the original you could end up with a clone of the 1st dog but with no working abbilitiy at all as you have so much NEW blood which you dont know the back ground off or if they ever threw any good pups previously.