dog genetics

[riohog 5,707]

Some pups are just born nervous and aint shit you can do about it.

 

The only reason that some folks might say that a bitch is always more important is because of mitochondrial DNA. They get none of that from their daddy cause it maternally inherited for the most part. There are only at the most like 1000 molecules of mtDNA in sperm but something like a 1,000,000 in an egg and also I believe that the "fetus" or whatever you call it in a dog (HAHA) absorbs some mtDNA also through the amniotic fluid. Nuclear DNA is the 50/50 deal and there is no disputing that. There ya go, thats it. But DNA is crazy and it can be pieced together so many different ways and if it dont fit right then it just dont.

yeah hear what you are saying dan .. it is a science but not an exact science unless it is replecated through 1005 cloning dolly the sheep job

 

 

I damn sure never said it was an exact science and you better look into cloning a bit more. I think you will find that even animals that are cloned are not exact. They cloned a holstein cow awhile back and the baby looked nothin like its momma. They cloned a racing mule twice now believe it or not and while the first one was somewhat like its momma but not quite........the second one was nuttin like its momma. Like I said, I never said it was an exact science just give you the answer to your question why some folks say the shit they say. Me presonally, I like to breed largely and cull ALOT. Aint no other way to have the best.

never said you did say that read it again cowboy so there is no need for the arrogance ok

[riohog 5,707]

good thread folks,i've not beem studying genetics for a while now but certaim points come back to me such as dominant v reccessive and polygenes etc;To simplify some of the terms used,Dominant means it will show and reccessive means hidden unless paired with another reccessive gene then it will show.Polygenes explain the diversity and varying size in many crosses,put simply they control many genetic variances from size to coat colour,long hair v short hair,rough v smooth etc;Only added this to the thread for the benefit of begginers to genetics,i would say it's a fascinating subject and well worth the effort to read about and understand,

Higgins

yeah wish i did understand more .. suppose it becomes somewhat easier to determine size ,shape coulor ect with a single breed rather than being so much cross breeding involved in lurchers .so many variants ..just dont see how can garantee results without line breeding and culling out hard to maintain the best results yes at some stage must have to outcross .. but then itsall starts again you may know a stud dog has produced good offspring with one bitch /or even 2/3 but cant garantee it will produce good from all

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

Cowboy? Arrogance?

[Trigger 26]

60-40 to the bitch

i dont know about 60-40 to the bitch but i believe the bitch is the most important parent out of the two.

[riohog 5,707]

60-40 to the bitch

i dont know about 60-40 to the bitch but i believe the bitch is the most important parent out of the two.

spose it depends how you look at it but historicly pups would spend more time with the bitch early learning ,spending /probebly ..no time with th sire so mybe does /has had a genetic afect on pups //seems it can get better with type of upbringing ..by man .....or not

[iluvmarcus 23]

ok criss , you say the bitch is the mainstay of breeding .. but what i want to know pal ..is why ..

 

is that? and if that is the case ,why are stud dogs /horses ect so highly prized ?

a good stallion can serve as many mares as the horse can handle. where the mare produces just the one foal in a year,plus they can store the stallions semen for artificial insemination.

same goes for a dog, a stud dog is just the same.

Edited May 23, 2010 by iluvmarcus

[riohog 5,707]

ok criss , you say the bitch is the mainstay of breeding .. but what i want to know pal ..is why ..

 

is that? and if that is the case ,why are stud dogs /horses ect so highly prized ?

a good stallion can serve as many mares as the horse can handle. where the mare produces just the one foal in a year,plus they can store the stallions semen for artificial insemination.

same goes for a dog, a stud dog is just the same.

yes quite right ,but why do some say the bitch is more inportant in the breeding ok some will be better mothers than others , but geneticly why?apart from passing on those mothering skills!

[Trigger 26]

ok criss , you say the bitch is the mainstay of breeding .. but what i want to know pal ..is why ..

 

is that? and if that is the case ,why are stud dogs /horses ect so highly prized ?

a good stallion can serve as many mares as the horse can handle. where the mare produces just the one foal in a year,plus they can store the stallions semen for artificial insemination.

same goes for a dog, a stud dog is just the same.

yes quite right ,but why do some say the bitch is more inportant in the breeding ok some will be better mothers than others , but geneticly why?apart from passing on those mothering skills!

ive noticed in litters of the first crosses that if the alsation is the mother the adult pups tend to have a head that is more square in shape like the alsation, if the grey is the mother the pups seem to have a more slender longer head like the grey.

ive seen litters with a grey bitch crossed with a top class working alsation the pups seemed to very greyhound minded chase anything that moved flat out and they seemed to be soft like the grey if they knocked there self on a stick they would squeal the place down. i have seen the pups breed the other way a inteligent alsasion bitch and any old greyhound, all that was important from the sire was he had plenty of hieght. alot more of these pups made a good decent grade they had the work drive of there mother and her inteligence and agression and a pain tollarance. ive noticed this alot in first cross litters. in both cases i dont see that the father as contributed the qualitys the bitch does.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Trigger

[Guest joe ox]

yes quite right ,but why do some say the bitch is more inportant in the breeding ok some will be better mothers than others , but geneticly why?apart from passing on those mothering skills!

 

Are you saying that all a bitch passes on is her mothering skills? The bitch and dog are equally important IMO

[riohog 5,707]

yes quite right ,but why do some say the bitch is more inportant in the breeding ok some will be better mothers than others , but geneticly why?apart from passing on those mothering skills!

 

Are you saying that all a bitch passes on is her mothering skills? The bitch and dog are equally important IMO

no not saying just that that will be one thing it passes on .. but what else. if bitch and /dog equally important,like you say .. what does the bitch ..pass ..and wht does the dog pass on ?

[Guest joe ox]

Are you saying that all a bitch passes on is her mothering skills? The bitch and dog are equally important IMO

no not saying just that that will be one thing it passes on .. but what else. if bitch and /dog equally important,like you say .. what does the bitch ..pass ..and wht does the dog pass on ?

 

Iam no expert on genetics the subject is fascinating and sometimes confusing to me, I carnt answer the genetics of it and wont attempt to but over the years ive seen a lot more dogs fail from untested bitchs "any greyhound bitch will do" I think not!!!

What answers if any do you hope to gain from this topic?

Edited May 23, 2010 by joe ox

[paddybarr 77]

ok criss , you say the bitch is the mainstay of breeding .. but what i want to know pal ..is why ..

 

is that? and if that is the case ,why are stud dogs /horses ect so highly prized ?

a good stallion can serve as many mares as the horse can handle. where the mare produces just the one foal in a year,plus they can store the stallions semen for artificial insemination.

same goes for a dog, a stud dog is just the same.

yes quite right ,but why do some say the bitch is more inportant in the breeding ok some will be better mothers than others , but geneticly why?apart from passing on those mothering skills!

 

because most who have a bitch they think is worth breeding seek out the best dog possible not many work it the other way round, its 50/50 which imparts the quality hence why for generations anyone breeding for a purpose be it horse,dog bird or cat will always go best to best, look to the terrier guys for tight breeding gen after gen stamping their class on litters but even they have recessive genes but most tend to cull so those inherent faults are not going back in, i bred game birds for years maybe 200/300 a year by Dec i would be down to maybe 30 birds and 5 tops would make the grade, easy to do with poultry bit tricky with k9's, talk to anyone breeding and working dogs and i will guess most have had 1/2 world beaters in their time and spent years trying to replicate them

[chuck 4]

thats why i only keep bitches and test them to the max,as when i breed i hold 60% chance of producing top stuff,

[Ideation 8,216]

To be honest mate its been said - both parents have a pair of chromosomes for everything - sex, color, size etc etc etc and when they are mated they pass on ONE CHROMOSOME EACH to their offspring - but this is totally at random. The physical expression of these pairings is down to recessive/dominant chromosomes. Line breeding is used to pair dog/bitch that carry similar chromosomes with similar dominant/recessive expressions and so are more likely to pass on a more uniform and controllable mix of genetics to their offspring. Does that make any sense? Due to this when breeding any animal you should always pair best to best. . . . . it also throws some question on pairing two animals together that are markedly different in order to achieve a complimentary mating.

 

atb

 

Jai.

[Casso 1,261]

yes quite right ,but why do some say the bitch is more inportant in the breeding ok some will be better mothers than others , but geneticly why?apart from passing on those mothering skills!

 

Are you saying that all a bitch passes on is her mothering skills? The bitch and dog are equally important IMO

no not saying just that that will be one thing it passes on .. but what else. if bitch and /dog equally important,like you say .. what does the bitch ..pass ..and wht does the dog pass on ?

 

A bitch with a nervous trait will pass on that trait to some her pups, due to the fact that pups will start figuring out the world through her and her reactions to different situations, She can also be harder on them in terms of dishing out disipline, than a calmer more settled bitch, thats can also leads to pups with certain unwanted traits in adult dogs,,