dog genetics

[riohog 5,701]

I think the reason you have highly prized stud dogs that throw good pups is because they are homozygous (both alleles are the same one) with dominant alleles for most of the traites they carry which means you get basically no litter wastage because all the pups throw the same, the bitches genes are still half the dog but because they aren't dominant they don't show, but the pups could still pass on the recessive gene. But if you have a dog which is hetrozygous (the 2 alleles are different, 1 recessive, 1 dominant) there is a 1 in 4 chance the gene which doesn't show in the damn/sire gets passed on, this is where you get good dogs that throw shit litters. This sounds more complicated than it is, if I can get up some diagrams you will understand it easier.

but would that stud /dog through its dominant gene /or would it show through in pups from any bitch /or just some!!

[Guest little lurcher]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooo bollox ive had a drink , too much to handle tonight , ill post some links up tomorrow showing genetic diversity and what mutations can develop in a very short time , clever site i found with graphs and allsorts !!! hey i could even end up kinda looking brainy at some point !!!

 

but ill leave you with this , how did , 2 white parents , white relations for gens , end up with twins , in a family with no twins ( supposed to be genetic we are told???? ) 1 kiddie being born black the other white ???? divorce came as you would of course imagine , to then be DNA tested to both children being of both same parent????

 

there you go , ALWAYS expect the unexpected !!!

[riohog 5,701]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooo bollox ive had a drink , too much to handle tonight , ill post some links up tomorrow showing genetic diversity and what mutations can develop in a very short time , clever site i found with graphs and allsorts !!! hey i could even end up kinda looking brainy at some point !!!

 

but ill leave you with this , how did , 2 white parents , white relations for gens , end up with twins , in a family with no twins ( supposed to be genetic we are told???? ) 1 kiddie being born black the other white ???? divorce came as you would of course imagine , to then be DNA tested to both children being of both same parent????

 

there you go , ALWAYS expect the unexpected !!!

ive heard of that tan think the great grandma worked on a cotton plantation ..lol

[Guest little lurcher]

ha ha the pleasures of a drunken woman with a passion for a subject!!!! sorry ill go away now lol

[riohog 5,701]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooo bollox ive had a drink , too much to handle tonight , ill post some links up tomorrow showing genetic diversity and what mutations can develop in a very short time , clever site i found with graphs and allsorts !!! hey i could even end up kinda looking brainy at some point !!!

 

but ill leave you with this , how did , 2 white parents , white relations for gens , end up with twins , in a family with no twins ( supposed to be genetic we are told???? ) 1 kiddie being born black the other white ???? divorce came as you would of course imagine , to then be DNA tested to both children being of both same parent????

 

there you go , ALWAYS expect the unexpected !!!

god sakes were did you get that from. just to complicate matters genetics in breeding of any kind can skip generations

probebly a real good example nothing to do with coulor ,,but back to dogs perhaps generations are skiped and thats what produce , the occasionall world beeter , that is not easy to replicate

[Wild_and_Irish 11]

I think the reason you have highly prized stud dogs that throw good pups is because they are homozygous (both alleles are the same one) with dominant alleles for most of the traites they carry which means you get basically no litter wastage because all the pups throw the same, the bitches genes are still half the dog but because they aren't dominant they don't show, but the pups could still pass on the recessive gene. But if you have a dog which is hetrozygous (the 2 alleles are different, 1 recessive, 1 dominant) there is a 1 in 4 chance the gene which doesn't show in the damn/sire gets passed on, this is where you get good dogs that throw shit litters. This sounds more complicated than it is, if I can get up some diagrams you will understand it easier.

but would that stud /dog through its dominant gene /or would it show through in pups from any bitch /or just some!!

That's the the thing I doon't get myself, stuff like coat/eye colour can be easily worked out to be dominant or recessive, but the overall bone structure/size/shape of the dog...... don't have a feckin clue, the main problem is there are so many of these pairs we don't know what each of them does and what is dominant. Doogs are probably one of the hardest species to try and work this out on too, they are the animal that varies most within a species, you don't see the same difference people that you get between a wolfhound and a chihuahua. But because studs are used on stuff of a similar type that's imho why they work well.

[Guest little lurcher]

but that is the diversity of the genetics and why millions upon millions of pounds and hours in labs havent produced another shergar , or mill reef blah blah , a lot of our lurcher breeding i think has to go on BOTH parents , how well that works is up to the breeder , the feeding , the exercise of mind and body in the dog and the knowledge of the person taking over the training , then you will also get a freak from crap parents , crap owner , ends up with someone with a little savvy and hey presto a worldbeater???

 

i will endeavor to find that site which does explain a lot of basic genetics and what bits are proven withing scientific ranges

[Wild_and_Irish 11]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooo bollox ive had a drink , too much to handle tonight , ill post some links up tomorrow showing genetic diversity and what mutations can develop in a very short time , clever site i found with graphs and allsorts !!! hey i could even end up kinda looking brainy at some point !!!

 

but ill leave you with this , how did , 2 white parents , white relations for gens , end up with twins , in a family with no twins ( supposed to be genetic we are told???? ) 1 kiddie being born black the other white ???? divorce came as you would of course imagine , to then be DNA tested to both children being of both same parent????

 

there you go , ALWAYS expect the unexpected !!!

god sakes were did you get that from. just to complicate matters genetics in breeding of any kind can skip generations

Thats the recessive allele that got passed on but was dominated, then the dog was bred with another dog that had the recessive allele and some of the pups showed it because they have to pair with each other to work

[riohog 5,701]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooo bollox ive had a drink , too much to handle tonight , ill post some links up tomorrow showing genetic diversity and what mutations can develop in a very short time , clever site i found with graphs and allsorts !!! hey i could even end up kinda looking brainy at some point !!!

 

but ill leave you with this , how did , 2 white parents , white relations for gens , end up with twins , in a family with no twins ( supposed to be genetic we are told???? ) 1 kiddie being born black the other white ???? divorce came as you would of course imagine , to then be DNA tested to both children being of both same parent????

 

there you go , ALWAYS expect the unexpected !!!

god sakes were did you get that from. just to complicate matters genetics in breeding of any kind can skip generations

probebly a real good example nothing to do with coulor ,,but back to dogs perhaps generations are skiped and thats what produce , the occasionall world beeter , that is not easy to replicate

[/quote ive been at it 30 odd years trying to get the world beeter have only once breed a beeter bitch tnan her mother. dont know how to replicate that bitch again without line breeding

think line breeding is yiur only option .. but as you know ,,brings its own risks /or can do

[riohog 5,701]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooo bollox ive had a drink , too much to handle tonight , ill post some links up tomorrow showing genetic diversity and what mutations can develop in a very short time , clever site i found with graphs and allsorts !!! hey i could even end up kinda looking brainy at some point !!!

 

but ill leave you with this , how did , 2 white parents , white relations for gens , end up with twins , in a family with no twins ( supposed to be genetic we are told???? ) 1 kiddie being born black the other white ???? divorce came as you would of course imagine , to then be DNA tested to both children being of both same parent????

 

there you go , ALWAYS expect the unexpected !!!

god sakes were did you get that from. just to complicate matters genetics in breeding of any kind can skip generations

probebly a real good example nothing to do with coulor ,,but back to dogs perhaps generations are skiped and thats what produce , the occasionall world beeter , that is not easy to replicate

[/quote ive been at it 30 odd years trying to get the world beeter have only once breed a beeter bitch tnan her mother. dont know how to replicate that bitch again without line breeding

think line breeding is yiur only option .. but as you know ,,brings its own risks /or can do

would never line breed not into that . what i do is to as i have said before get the best stud dog i can and to try and repilcate my bitch by keping back the pup that is most like her mother as she was as a pup

the old way of thinking was to ..to breed tight and cull hard .. only keeping the very best in the line .. but i accept its not for everyone

[chris hickling 14]

this is turning in to a very good topic, the dog will put his stamp on to the bitches pups ,you only have to go back and look at the pups ken gould had out of flint,that dog put is shape to all his pups,and it was gouldy bred russells winning at all the shows,they was all pleaseing to the eye,a nice straight legged terrier,will have to get me books out again lol.

[riohog 5,701]

this is turning in to a very good topic, the dog will put his stamp on to the bitches pups ,you only have to go back and look at the pups ken gould had out of flint,that dog put is shape to all his pups,and it was gouldy bred russells winning at all the shows,they was all pleaseing to the eye,a nice straight legged terrier,will have to get me books out again lol.

ken lives not far from me ,i know of him not into the terrier job but i know hes had good stuff for many years ,,does he line breedshorly he must to keep to that type

Edited May 23, 2010 by riohog

[chris hickling 14]

yes he still as the odd dog about him and as always line bred interbred out crossed with his dogs,also keeps is birds and as dun so for a good few years,hes about 10 15 min from j24 so not far from you ,straight talking no bullshit type of man ,a spade is a spade with ken lol and some dont like it ,but its the only way to be .

Edited May 23, 2010 by chris hickling

[higgins 75]

good thread folks,i've not beem studying genetics for a while now but certaim points come back to me such as dominant v reccessive and polygenes etc;To simplify some of the terms used,Dominant means it will show and reccessive means hidden unless paired with another reccessive gene then it will show.Polygenes explain the diversity and varying size in many crosses,put simply they control many genetic variances from size to coat colour,long hair v short hair,rough v smooth etc;Only added this to the thread for the benefit of begginers to genetics,i would say it's a fascinating subject and well worth the effort to read about and understand,

Higgins

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

Some pups are just born nervous and aint shit you can do about it.

 

The only reason that some folks might say that a bitch is always more important is because of mitochondrial DNA. They get none of that from their daddy cause it maternally inherited for the most part. There are only at the most like 1000 molecules of mtDNA in sperm but something like a 1,000,000 in an egg and also I believe that the "fetus" or whatever you call it in a dog (HAHA) absorbs some mtDNA also through the amniotic fluid. Nuclear DNA is the 50/50 deal and there is no disputing that. There ya go, thats it. But DNA is crazy and it can be pieced together so many different ways and if it dont fit right then it just dont.

yeah hear what you are saying dan .. it is a science but not an exact science unless it is replecated through 1005 cloning dolly the sheep job

 

 

I damn sure never said it was an exact science and you better look into cloning a bit more. I think you will find that even animals that are cloned are not exact. They cloned a holstein cow awhile back and the baby looked nothin like its momma. They cloned a racing mule twice now believe it or not and while the first one was somewhat like its momma but not quite........the second one was nuttin like its momma. Like I said, I never said it was an exact science just give you the answer to your question why some folks say the shit they say. Me presonally, I like to breed largely and cull ALOT. Aint no other way to have the best.