Guest REDROB Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 hi, could any of the owners of working borders let us no how there young dogs started off working below ground to fox, did they bay or hold, did they change the way they worked. thanks Quote Link to post
nuv 2 Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 hi, could any of the owners of working borders let us no how there young dogs started off working below ground to fox, did they bay or hold, did they change the way they worked. thanks Mine have all varied...but most self-entered and have been hard. Quote Link to post
Guest REDROB Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 cheers nuv, reason i asked is ive had 1 that was abayer at first then he went on to afew yaps and if it didnt bolt he would take hold untill you got to him, 2nd was abitch that stayed a bayer, now ive got a young dog just over 2yrs he hasnt seen many but he go,s straight in and takes hold, was just wondering how others started work. would a border start early if he was kept by a hunt terrierman and not some one that just rakes about at the weekends, is it better for the terrier to only see earth work and not to hunt up and self enter.would it make any differance in the dog, and the way he would work, thanks. Quote Link to post
nuv 2 Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) cheers nuv, reason i asked is ive had 1 that was abayer at first then he went on to afew yaps and if it didnt bolt he would take hold untill you got to him, 2nd was abitch that stayed a bayer, now ive got a young dog just over 2yrs he hasnt seen many but he go,s straight in and takes hold, was just wondering how others started work. would a border start early if he was kept by a hunt terrierman and not some one that just rakes about at the weekends, is it better for the terrier to only see earth work and not to hunt up and self enter.would it make any differance in the dog, and the way he would work, thanks. Hello Rob...nice to see someone who goes back to the original days of the old 'smoochers' getting on here. Anyway, my bitch who weighs only eight pounds - yes really - is an out and out bayer, thankfully, but she is a quite nervy bitch and I believe character, as opposed to breed has much to do with the dog's working technique, irrespective of parent characteristics. I have never bred a really hard Border, yet have owned a few; having said that, I've seen some really hard black dogs and never bred those either. I believe that working technique , ability etc differs across a litter as much as looks, personality etc. That's before they end up in the owners' hands...who often ruin the pup anyway.. Notwithstanding, I've never seen a mental Russell but seen some excellent specimens. Many Russells I've seen have also been aggressive toward other dogs, as have the Plummers. Perhaps the 'Russell' genetics needed refining...given the Bull blood they had which bastardised them in the Seventies... Having said that, the old 'Queen Annes' by and large worked...and were f**k!ng ugly to boot... Let's see what happens with the 'Parsons' funny really that we now have several breeds of the same ancestric dog...as we are experiencing with the Lakeland... And, according to Plummer, the Patterdale doesn't exist...yet the Plummer does...hmmm...nice one Bri... Oh, and Borders enter late...but at least to reasonably decent quarry... Anyway, I digress...I have worked Borders for a few years and am satisfied that they suit my requirements...similarly, I suppose owners of other - and perhaps the same - breeds might agree... Nuv Edited November 7, 2006 by nuv Quote Link to post
thurso jack 3 Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 nuv any pics of your small border bitch and what height is she? Quote Link to post
Guest oneredtrim Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) : Edited January 17, 2008 by oneredtrim Quote Link to post
nuv 2 Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) nuv any pics of your small border bitch and what height is she? She's about 9'' at the shoulder...The pic below is recycled as I gave up hunting to respect the law :whistle: and therefore take no photographic evidence. The above MAY illustrate... Edited November 8, 2006 by nuv Quote Link to post
thurso jack 3 Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 (edited) she does look small is this an exceptionally small border or the norm? does she take much stick? Edited November 7, 2006 by thurso jack Quote Link to post
nuv 2 Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 she does look small is this an exceptionally small border or the norm? does she take much stick? She is excepetionally small... She takes little stick...being a bayer...refer to my earlier post... Quote Link to post
nelson 0 Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 These four are/were all workers,the dog is dead.The three bitches,all related work totally different.On the left as you look is a 12" bayer nothing more,3rd ferkin nut case and last bay and mix.The dog would work anything from a mouse to a mule. :black eye: I dont know as i dont feel qualified to say but do all breeds of terrier throw a different style of working ? Can a hard bitch,mated to a hard dog throw a bayer ? and as such this is a failure ,a mincer and a waste of time ? :kiss: God knows best thing to do is try and find what sort you like and be happy Quote Link to post
thurso jack 3 Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 she does look small is this an exceptionally small border or the norm? does she take much stick? She is excepetionally small... She takes little stick...being a bayer...refer to my earlier post... oops sorry didnt read it properly, she looks a smart wee dog anyway! Quote Link to post
nelson 0 Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 she does look small is this an exceptionally small border or the norm? does she take much stick? She is excepetionally small... She takes little stick...being a bayer...refer to my earlier post... I bet she is very useful though ,my small bayer can be worked all year no problem and no time wasting either,but the harder dog still has avery important role to play. Quote Link to post
nuv 2 Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Nelson, Jack, I believe that certain traits are inherent within breeds, but working ability varies from one dog to another, irrespective of breed. I'm just waiting to be criticised now... Quote Link to post
Hywel 53 Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 These four are/were all workers,the dog is dead.The three bitches,all related work totally different.On the left as you look is a 12" bayer nothing more,3rd ferkin nut case and last bay and mix.The dog would work anything from a mouse to a mule. :black eye: I dont know as i dont feel qualified to say but do all breeds of terrier throw a different style of working ? Can a hard bitch,mated to a hard dog throw a bayer ? and as such this is a failure ,a mincer and a waste of time ? :kiss: God knows best thing to do is try and find what sort you like and be happy Nice team you've put together there......... Quote Link to post
Stabs 3 Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Some interesting reading there NUV. Good post mate. Do you think that this apparent mix of styles which we see in even the same litters is from people over the years breeding bayers to hard and not breeding complimentary styles together? Quote Link to post
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