Military grade ammo?

[speedystu 0]

Hi all!! whats the score in using military grade 5.56 in a 223? is there any issues in it..

[riohog 5,701]

Hi all!! whats the score in using military grade 5.56 in a 223? is there any issues in it..

 

its a different spec .. i wouldnt use it !! in a sporting rifle

[speedystu 0]

I know its a different spec!!!! but what is it and why not!!

[riohog 5,701]

I know its a different spec!!!! but what is it and why not!!

it produces different chamber preasure and i think there is a different throat angle on mil spec ammo

[HUnter_zero 58]

Hi all!! whats the score in using military grade 5.56 in a 223? is there any issues in it..

 

 

It all came as a bit of a shock to me after reading on here that .223 & 5.56 are not the same. A bit of research showed that due to Mil spec brass being thicker the internal case capacity is reduced, and needs to have reduced loads when reloading Mil cases. Further research showed that Mil spec 5.56 was reported to be longer than civilian .223 rounds, due to a long throat or chamber on the military spec guns, yet both were stated as having an OAL of 2.26"

To add some fuel to the already confused fire, some manufactures produce rifles that can handle the 5.56 (such as Ruger & Colt).

In essence, both have near exact external dimensions but Mil spec has smaller internal dimensions and the OAL may be longer which can lead to much higher chamber pressures than with civilian .223. 5.56 is stated to have a max chamber pressure of 62,366 psi, whilst the civilian .223 having 55,000 psi. Check with the manufacture of your rifle.

 

John

[JonathanL 4]

Hi all!! whats the score in using military grade 5.56 in a 223? is there any issues in it..

 

Cue the protracted argument!

[Blacksheep 6]

Look here 5.56 v 223

[JonathanL 4]

They are diferent spec, true. The brass is thicker in certain parts and such like.

 

They don't actually produce different pressures. The differences come from the fact that different countries test the ammo in different ways.

 

The US manufacturers use the SAAMI test which gives a pressure of something like 55,000psi. However, people quote this against the NATO Evap test for 5.56mm, which shows something like 63,000psi, and then use that to "prove" that 5.56mm is a higher pressure round than .223 and is dangerous in .223 rifles.

 

The prolem is that the tests do not measure the same thing. The SAAMI test takes its reading just forward of the web of the case and the NATO test takes it at the throat. The throat is where you get highest pressure.

 

The other international standard test is the CiP one which all the European countries sign up to and their specs for .223 and 5.56 are actually identical (60 something thousand psi)as they measure the pressure at the same point on the cartridge for both rounds.

 

Long story short, 5.56mm is perfectly safe in a .223 rifle and vice-versa. Millions of rounds of 5.56 ammo are shot trough .223 rifles every year. This is why .223 is such a popular round - you can get cheap military ammo for it.

 

J.

[JonathanL 4]

Look here 5.56 v 223

 

Bearing in mind, of course, that that article is 31 years old now. Also, it relates to a warning put about by SAAMI, a manufacturers representative group. So, no bested interst there then.

 

J.

[HUnter_zero 58]

 

Long story short, 5.56mm is perfectly safe in a .223 rifle and vice-versa.

J.

 

 

I must be honest and say that when I owned a .223 I used Mil ammo with no issues at all and it's wasn't until I read on here that there was an issue that I was even aware of any debate.

 

If I purchased another .223, I would certainly reload the RG cases I have here and not worry one bit about it.

 

John

[Mastiff 7]

Sorry to hijack but where do you buy cheaper military ammo?

 

Or is it a case of it's not what you know but who you know?

[HUnter_zero 58]

Sorry to hijack but where do you buy cheaper military ammo?

 

Or is it a case of it's not what you know but who you know?

 

 

To be honest it's not that cheap anymore, compare prices to Privi.

Just ask your gun shop and no doubt they will have some in stock. It used to come in plain cardboard boxes but last time my mate got some 7.62 the rounds were in a clear plastic bag.

 

John

[JonathanL 4]

Sorry to hijack but where do you buy cheaper military ammo?

 

Or is it a case of it's not what you know but who you know?

 

Military surplus ammo was always a lot cheaper than commercial ammo. This is the reason that .223 and .308 rifles became so popular - same as .303 years back.

 

Having said all that there is actually very little surplus ammo about these days for obvious reasons.

 

J.

[Deker 3,478]

They are diferent spec, true. The brass is thicker in certain parts and such like.

 

They don't actually produce different pressures. The differences come from the fact that different countries test the ammo in different ways.

 

The US manufacturers use the SAAMI test which gives a pressure of something like 55,000psi. However, people quote this against the NATO Evap test for 5.56mm, which shows something like 63,000psi, and then use that to "prove" that 5.56mm is a higher pressure round than .223 and is dangerous in .223 rifles.

 

The prolem is that the tests do not measure the same thing. The SAAMI test takes its reading just forward of the web of the case and the NATO test takes it at the throat. The throat is where you get highest pressure.

 

The other international standard test is the CiP one which all the European countries sign up to and their specs for .223 and 5.56 are actually identical (60 something thousand psi)as they measure the pressure at the same point on the cartridge for both rounds.

 

Long story short, 5.56mm is perfectly safe in a .223 rifle and vice-versa. Millions of rounds of 5.56 ammo are shot trough .223 rifles every year. This is why .223 is such a popular round - you can get cheap military ammo for it.

 

J.

 

 

So, Why does it say .223 on the rifle and not .223/5.56???

 

You do what you like, I am happier to accept this....

 

http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html

 

Extract...

SAAMI points out that chambers for military rifles have a different throat configuration than chambers for sporting firearms which, together with the full metal jacket of the military projectile, may account for the higher pressures which result when military ammunition is fired in a sporting chamber.

 

SAAMI recommends that a firearm be fired only with the cartridge for which it is specifically chambered by the manufacturer.

 

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat

 

The choice is yours..you simply have to ask...Do I feel lucky??

 

[dave1372 83]

Hi all!! whats the score in using military grade 5.56 in a 223? is there any issues in it..

 

 

Got this of wikipedia :

 

The 5.56 mm NATO and .223 Remington cartridges and chamberings are similar but not identical. Military cases are generally made from thicker brass than commercial cases; this reduces the powder capacity (an important consideration for handloaders^[12]), and the NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure. NATO EPVAT test barrels made for 5.56 mm NATO measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the location used by the United States civil standards organization SAAMI. The piezoelectric sensors or transducers NATO and SAAMI use to conduct the actual pressure measurements also differ. This difference in measurement method accounts for upwards of 137.9 MPa (20,000 psi) difference in pressure measurements. This means the NATO EPVAT maximum service pressure of 430 MPa (62,366 psi) for 5.56 mm NATO, is reduced by SAAMI to 379.21 MPa (55,000 psi) for .223 Remington.^[13] In contrast to SAAMI, the other main civil standards organization C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO.

 

The 5.56 mm NATO chambering, known as a NATO or mil-spec chamber, has a longer leade, which is the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point at which the rifling engages the bullet. The .223 Remington chambering, known as SAAMI chamber, is allowed to have a shorter leade, and is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressure. To address these issues, various proprietary chambers exist, such as the Wylde chamber (Rock River Arms)^[14] or the ArmaLite chamber, which are designed to handle both 5.56 mm NATO and .223 Remington equally well. The dimensions and leade of the .223 Remington minimum C.I.P. chamber also differ from the 5.56 mm NATO chamber specification.

 

Using commercial .223 Remington cartridges in a 5.56 mm NATO chambered rifle should work reliably, but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223 Remington chambered gun due to the longer leade.^[15] Using 5.56 mm NATO mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223 Remington chambered rifle can lead to excessive wear and stress on the rifle and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice.^[16][17] Some commercial rifles marked as ".223 Remington" are in fact suited for 5.56 mm NATO, such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14, but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that this is acceptable before attempting it, and signs of excessive pressure (such as flattening or gas staining of the primers) should be looked for in the initial testing with 5.56 mm NATO ammunition.^[18]

 

It should also be noted that the upper receiver (to which the barrel with its chamber are attached) and the lower receiver are entirely separate parts in AR-15 style rifles. If the lower receiver has either .223 or 5.56 stamped on it, it does not guarantee the upper assembly is rated for the same caliber, because the upper and the lower receiver in same rifle can, and frequently do, come from different manufacturers - particularly with rifles sold to civilians or second-hand rifles.