BASC and NL&RC

[Foxgun Tom 75]

If the Moderators will allow me to post this twice? in this section and in the Gamefair and event thread, as it's important that its seen by as many folk as possible

 

In Scotland there are no restrictions on showing docked pups, or dogs of any age that are docked but!! it is unlawfull to dock pups

 

BASC and The National Lurcher & Racing Club are holding a Lurcher and Terrier event at the BASC Game Fair at Cardross on May 8th

 

In their advertising the NL&RC state "No terrier docked after 21st March 2007 to be shown"

 

It's not illegal to show docked Terriers in Scotland!!!

 

"There will be no Terrier puppy classes"

 

Its not illegal to show Docked or undocked Terrier puppy's in Scotland!!

 

 

The contact tel no's for this event is 01773 835291 or 07801454897

 

BASC and NL&RC are trying to impose restrictions and a code of practice that does'nt apply to Scotland, we have our own legislation in place

 

 

I would ask any self respecting member of the NL&RC to consider their membership of this organisation as a mark of solidarity and support towards their fellow working dog enthusists "THE TERRIER MAN"

 

Tom

[Strong Stuff 2,171]

If the Moderators will allow me to post this twice? in this section and in the Gamefair and event thread, as it's important that its seen by as many folk as possible

 

In Scotland there are no restrictions on showing docked pups, or dogs of any age that are docked but!! it is unlawfull to dock pups

 

BASC and The National Lurcher & Racing Club are holding a Lurcher and Terrier event at the BASC Game Fair at Cardross on May 8th

 

In their advertising the NL&RC state "No terrier docked after 21st March 2007 to be shown"

 

It's not illegal to show docked Terriers in Scotland!!!

 

"There will be no Terrier puppy classes"

 

Its not illegal to show Docked or undocked Terrier puppy's in Scotland!!

 

 

The contact tel no's for this event is 01773 835291 or 07801454897

 

BASC and NL&RC are trying to impose restrictions and a code of practice that does'nt apply to Scotland, we have our own legislation in place

 

 

I would ask any self respecting member of the NL&RC to consider their membership of this organisation as a mark of solidarity and support towards their fellow working dog enthusists "THE TERRIER MAN"

 

Tom

 

NLRC are the organisation that don't have Bull X classes at their shows either .................

[terrier.2 123]

they did exactly the same last year.when i phoned to check that it was nt just a misprint,i was given an extremely abrubt reply that they were not concerned that it was legal to show docked pups in scotland,they (NLRC) were not having pups,END OFF! unbelievable,have since had other run ins with the woman that took my call.talking to her is like talking to a brick wall..as far as i am concerned she is an extremely bad example of a representative of the working dog.its her way or no way!

[asha 48]

spoke to fox gun at the scotish game fair had a few probs with a local show that was advertised in the cmw that champs and res champs got trophys to keep,know lad who won champ last year.member shoke my hand says he sort it send my adress etc.phoned female member got mouthfull of insultes swearing etc i must be a trophy hunter.paid my money same as the rest so still expect something.hope u remember talking to us fox gun thats our club we sort it out .same thing hapend scotch fair trophys for every class but the one i win.see use at neilston for my reserve trophy atb trophy hunter

[Foxgun Tom 75]

spoke to fox gun at the scotish game fair had a few probs with a local show that was advertised in the cmw that champs and res champs got trophys to keep,know lad who won champ last year.member shoke my hand says he sort it send my adress etc.phoned female member got mouthfull of insultes swearing etc i must be a trophy hunter.paid my money same as the rest so still expect something.hope u remember talking to us fox gun thats our club we sort it out .same thing hapend scotch fair trophys for every class but the one i win.see use at neilston for my reserve trophy atb trophy hunter

 

I certainly remember speaking to you but it was'nt at the Scottish Game Fair co's I was in hospital when Scone was on! I also was'nt involved personally in any adverts in the CMW I did what I said I would do! spoke to the members involved and left it to them to address the matter with you!!

 

Tom

 

Having spoke to a member today, 24th April 2010 I think I've now found out what the situation is, hopefully??

 

Its seems you were given a trophy to keep for winnining reserve lurcher, and some information may have been misinterpreted? We think you may be under the impression that there is a perpetual trophy for reserve champion lurcher (A trophy held for a year with the winners name inscribed)

 

NWDA have never had such a trophy for reserve Lurcher! we are a terrier based club that only started showing lurchers two years ago

 

I can only on behalf of the club apologise for any confusion caused and say the fault may lie elswhere? the original advert maybe being misquoted??

Edited April 24, 2010 by Foxgun Tom

[Tesco 28]

spoke to fox gun at the scotish game fair had a few probs with a local show that was advertised in the cmw that champs and res champs got trophys to keep,know lad who won champ last year.member shoke my hand says he sort it send my adress etc.phoned female member got mouthfull of insultes swearing etc i must be a trophy hunter.paid my money same as the rest so still expect something.hope u remember talking to us fox gun thats our club we sort it out .same thing hapend scotch fair trophys for every class but the one i win.see use at neilston for my reserve trophy atb trophy hunter

 

Wernt you presented by the judge with a plate to keep for Reserve lurcher on the day of the show

[Dukie 1]

In reply to fox gun Tom

 

It is a shame that he needs to get down to a level of throwing insults (see header).

 

The NL&RC are first and foremost a Lurcher club, we do terriers when asked at Game Fairs but have always been happy to give any terrier show to a terrier organization. We do a terrier show at our grass roots shows mainly for the benifit of anyone who has both Lurchers and Terriers

With regards to the NL&RC not doing puppy classes at Game Fairs, we took advice from the NWTF who told us that we should air on the side of caution and not include terrier puppies at any show where the public pay to come in to the show. The show at Cardross is a pay to enter Game fair, in fact we did put terrier pups on at the BASC Game Keepers Fair at Catton last week because our part of the fair was free admission.

With regards to the point about solidarity, What is Tom offering in place of the NL&RC. I do not see him running events throughout the country for his fellow terrier and Lurcher supporters, and incedently everyone who helps the NL&RC does so at there own expense as they do it for the good of the dog, not profit and self gratification, also in the light of fairness our on site volunteers give up their rights to show their dogs in qualifying classes at one day shows.

I cannot help but wonder if the problem between Fox Gun and the NL&RC and BASC is because he did not get what he wanted when he came to see us at Cardross a few years ago

 

 

With regard to the Bull cross question, we do not do bull crosses in the same way that we do not do collie classes, saluki classes etc. They are all lurchers.

[Foxgun Tom 75]

First of all the header is not an insult its a fact!!!

 

I'm pointing out your wrong my own club Neilston Working Dog Association holds a terrier show every year at the same time as Cardross NWDA is also a member of ofThe National Working Terrier Federation The concept of "we took advice from the NWTF who told us that we should air on the side of caution and not include terrier puppies at any show where the public pay to come in to the show. The show at Cardross is a pay to enter Game fair" Is Wrong!! There is no such restriction or impediment is in place in Scotland

 

I might be wrong here but I don't think so?? Cardross is in Scotland therefore if my geography is right? it might just be a Scottish show!!

 

 

You are implementing restrictions which may may in place South of the border they do not apply in Scotland, "What part of don't apply in Scotland don't you understand??"

 

You erring on the side of caution rather than taking into consideration of what the law of Scotland allows!!

 

You ask "What is Tom offering in place of the NL&RC." I'll tell you what Tom offers a terrier show with all the usual entries, docked terriers and all, while working within Scotlands legislation,

 

I also take part in the promotion of the working terrier in many prestigeous show's throughout the UK (at my own expence) and this year will be doing the same in Ireland especially organising "THE FIVE NATION@S INTERNATIONAL TERRIER CHAMPIONSHIP" finals to be held at Birr Castle, Ireland in August

 

Your further comment "I cannot help but wonder if the problem between Fox Gun and the NL&RC and BASC is because he did not get what he wanted when he came to see us at Cardross a few years ago" is a bit vague for the other posters? The situation was as the Development Officer of SAC's part of my remit was to recruit members I asked the NL&RC if they were interested? I was told it would be put to your members? that was the end of my involvement with the NL&RC

 

There is only one problem the showing of docked pups is legal in Scotland and you are enforcing and imposing restrictions which are not valid here! Its like the poll tax all over again stealthily put imposisitions in place in Scotland, see if it works and how long we get away with it!!

 

Tom

 

 

 

In reply to fox gun Tom

 

It is a shame that he needs to get down to a level of throwing insults (see header).

 

The NL&RC are first and foremost a Lurcher club, we do terriers when asked at Game Fairs but have always been happy to give any terrier show to a terrier organization. We do a terrier show at our grass roots shows mainly for the benifit of anyone who has both Lurchers and Terriers

With regards to the NL&RC not doing puppy classes at Game Fairs, we took advice from the NWTF who told us that we should air on the side of caution and not include terrier puppies at any show where the public pay to come in to the show. The show at Cardross is a pay to enter Game fair, in fact we did put terrier pups on at the BASC Game Keepers Fair at Catton last week because our part of the fair was free admission.

With regards to the point about solidarity, What is Tom offering in place of the NL&RC. I do not see him running events throughout the country for his fellow terrier and Lurcher supporters, and incedently everyone who helps the NL&RC does so at there own expense as they do it for the good of the dog, not profit and self gratification, also in the light of fairness our on site volunteers give up their rights to show their dogs in qualifying classes at one day shows.

I cannot help but wonder if the problem between Fox Gun and the NL&RC and BASC is because he did not get what he wanted when he came to see us at Cardross a few years ago

 

 

With regard to the Bull cross question, we do not do bull crosses in the same way that we do not do collie classes, saluki classes etc. They are all lurchers.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Foxgun Tom

[Foxgun Tom 75]

FAO Dukie

You said you consulted the The National Working Terrier Federation well either some-ones lying or your being misinformed!! This text below is taken directly from the NWDA website today!!

 

Its not illegal and there's ne restrictions on showing docked dogs in Scotland!! (FACT!!) Therefore I reiterate

 

THE NL&RC ARE FECKIN IDIOTS who have'nt a clue and are ignorant of taildocking legislation in Scotland!!

 

Tom

 

b.Dogs Docked on or After the Relevant Dates: Irrespective of where they were docked, these dogs may not be exhibited at shows in England and Wales "where the public is admitted on payment of a fee", except in order to demonstrate their working ability. They may however, be exhibited at shows in Scotland.

 

 

c.In Scotland there are no showing restrictions. Whilst there is a total ban on tail docking in Scotland, there are no restrictions on the showing of legally docked dogs. So owners of legally docked dogs may show them at any show in Scotland, regardless of whether the public pay an admission fee.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Foxgun Tom

[gonetoearth 5,144]

In reply to fox gun Tom

 

It is a shame that he needs to get down to a level of throwing insults (see header).

 

The NL&RC are first and foremost a Lurcher club, we do terriers when asked at Game Fairs but have always been happy to give any terrier show to a terrier organization. We do a terrier show at our grass roots shows mainly for the benifit of anyone who has both Lurchers and Terriers

With regards to the NL&RC not doing puppy classes at Game Fairs, we took advice from the NWTF who told us that we should air on the side of caution and not include terrier puppies at any show where the public pay to come in to the show. The show at Cardross is a pay to enter Game fair, in fact we did put terrier pups on at the BASC Game Keepers Fair at Catton last week because our part of the fair was free admission.

With regards to the point about solidarity, What is Tom offering in place of the NL&RC. I do not see him running events throughout the country for his fellow terrier and Lurcher supporters, and incedently everyone who helps the NL&RC does so at there own expense as they do it for the good of the dog, not profit and self gratification, also in the light of fairness our on site volunteers give up their rights to show their dogs in qualifying classes at one day shows.

I cannot help but wonder if the problem between Fox Gun and the NL&RC and BASC is because he did not get what he wanted when he came to see us at Cardross a few years ago

 

 

With regard to the Bull cross question, we do not do bull crosses in the same way that we do not do collie classes, saluki classes etc. They are all lurchers.

THE. ACT. STATES. WORKING . TERRIERS . CAN. BE DOCKED.

THE .ACT STATES. WORKING. TERRIERS . CAN. BE SHOWN AND BE JUDGED ON THERE WORKING

ABILITY. ENGLAND

 

THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST SHOWING ANY DOCKED BREED IN SCOTLAND.

 

A BULL CROSS IS A LURCHER, AS ARE SALUKI, COLLI X, ETC UNLESS

YOU HAVE CHANGED THE RULE ON A GREYHOUND X IS NO LONGER A LURCHER

THE REST OF US RUN SHOWS TO PROMOTE THE WORKING TERRIER AND LURCHER

BREEDS, WORKING TERRIER AND LURCHER SHOWS HAVE BEEN RUNNING LONG

BEFORE CARBOOT SALE GAME FAIRS APPEARD ON THE SCEAN AND WILL BE

THERE LONG AFTER , IVE GOT A BLUE PETER BADGE SPARE IF YOU WANT

FOR RUNNING YOUR SHOW , THE REST OF US WILL CARRY ON RUNNING

WORKING DOG SHOWS FOR THE LADS WHO WORK THEM YOU KEEP RACEING

Edited April 24, 2010 by gonetoearth

[Foxgun Tom 75]

I sent this of to Dukie tonight

 

I have investigated the matter of the show that the NL&RC are holding at Cardross I have spoken to a number of Terrier club Secretarys and taken legal advice here in Scotland the terms and conditions of the show may be illegal!! and a proposal was put forward that we take legal action in Scotland against the NL&RC because of their proposal to enforce legislation that is in place in England and Wales and does not apply in Scotland therefore we as Scottish terrier men cannot exercise our legal rights in Scotland on matters that are a devolved issue and are therefore being discriminated against by intervention of statute not relevant in Scotland and the issue is a matter for the Scottish Parlement and its Legislators only!!?

 

Tom Chalmers

[zigzag dan 784]

I sent this of to Dukie tonight

 

I have investigated the matter of the show that the NL&RC are holding at Cardross I have spoken to a number of Terrier club Secretarys and taken legal advice here in Scotland the terms and conditions of the show may be illegal!! and a proposal was put forward that we take legal action in Scotland against the NL&RC because of their proposal to enforce legislation that is in place in England and Wales and does not apply in Scotland therefore we as Scottish terrier men cannot exercise our legal rights in Scotland on matters that are a devolved issue and are therefore being discriminated against by intervention of statute not relevant in Scotland and the issue is a matter for the Scottish Parlement and its Legislators only!!?

 

Tom Chalmers

NLRC are a joke and they sold out the working dog man years ago ! I stopped attending their shows a long time ago , and no , its not sour grapes , as i won their Ragley Hall championship twice . There attitude towards bull xs is out of order , i heard one of their committee once say ,- them badger dogs should be banned !!! As for the attitude of the person who does their publicity and organising , as someone has said , she is very rude , and looking at her i dont think shes walked many fields !

[gonetoearth 5,144]

With regard to the Bull cross question, we do not do bull crosses in the same way that we do not do collie classes, saluki classes etc. They are all lurchers.

please can some one explain the above to me , they are mainly a lurcher club

that wont let lurches enter

[zigzag dan 784]

With regard to the Bull cross question, we do not do bull crosses in the same way that we do not do collie classes, saluki classes etc. They are all lurchers.

please can some one explain the above to me , they are mainly a lurcher club

that wont let lurches enter

Its obvious that its bullx owners they dislike not just the actual dogs !

[Leeview 791]

I sent this of to Dukie tonight

 

I have investigated the matter of the show that the NL&RC are holding at Cardross I have spoken to a number of Terrier club Secretarys and taken legal advice here in Scotland the terms and conditions of the show may be illegal!! and a proposal was put forward that we take legal action in Scotland against the NL&RC because of their proposal to enforce legislation that is in place in England and Wales and does not apply in Scotland therefore we as Scottish terrier men cannot exercise our legal rights in Scotland on matters that are a devolved issue and are therefore being discriminated against by intervention of statute not relevant in Scotland and the issue is a matter for the Scottish Parlement and its Legislators only!!?

 

Tom Chalmers

NLRC are a joke and they sold out the working dog man years ago ! I stopped attending their shows a long time ago , and no , its not sour grapes , as i won their Ragley Hall championship twice . There attitude towards bull xs is out of order , i heard one of their committee once say ,- them badger dogs should be banned !!! As for the attitude of the person who does their publicity and organising , as someone has said , she is very rude , and looking at her i dont think shes walked many fields !

"them badger dogs should be banned" did n't one of their organisers serve time for badger digging offences? he offered to resign and they would nt accept it

Y.I.S Leeview