Dodgy 12bore ammo

[Tiddler66 3]

On saturday I went to a local charity clay shoot with a mate of mine .....We are both rough shooters, and don't take the clays very seriously......I had 50 rounds with me and he had the same. We fired off mine first (Eley Hush Power), then we moved onto his.....My first shot with his ammo (SAGA 28gram Felt 7.5) was a double discharge.....almost took my flipping shoulder off....I finished off my round then my mate took the stand and he had a double discharge.....and then quickly followed by a primer being blown back into the firing pin hole on the breech face....effectively rivetting the gun shut. Now I have been shooting shotguns for more than 35 years, and both of these are new experiences for me.....and not ones I would like to repeat............was it a dodgy batch of ammo.....should we contact the gun shop.......or is this more common situation with cheaper loads?

Edited April 19, 2010 by Tiddler66

[ellir0305 9]

if the one shot was taking your shoulder off god knows what the double discharge was like, i have'nt been shooting long but never heard of any of this happening and i shoot with people who fire the cheapest shit all the time. i would personally let the gun shop know, i mean if its a faulty batch you guys might have been lucky. could go worse for the next guy

 

atb

 

rob

[danebrewer10 6]

hmmm I don't think the double discharge was down to the dodgy ammo, a friend has a Browning Cynergy black ice and that discharged both barrels once, plus it shot one of its ejectors across the clay ground... but that's another story. I think the primer getting stuck in the firing pin hole may be down to the cartridges being old and/or dodgy, as I have an old S/S and the firing pin holes are quite big, and I did have a part box of some pretty old No 5s, which made the gun not want to open, so I got rid of them, but it works fine with Eley cartridges which is what I use... the gun will probably want looking at as it might be down to the sear engagement not being sufficient, that the shock from the first shot can trip the sear of the second barrel. I don't think that modern cheap cartridges make an awful lot of difference as any modern gun in GWO will shoot them fine, it's just that the consistency won't be up there with the more expensive cartridges, plus I personally don't notice any difference and I usually buy whatever is on offer for clays 1000 at a time...

 

Cheers

DB

[sage 0]

On saturday I went to a local charity clay shoot with a mate of mine .....We are both rough shooters, and don't take the clays very seriously......I had 50 rounds with me and he had the same. We fired off mine first (Eley Hush Power), then we moved onto his.....My first shot with his ammo (SAGA 28gram Felt 7.5) was a double discharge.....almost took my flipping shoulder off....I finished off my round then my mate took the stand and he had a double discharge.....and then quickly followed by a primer being blown back into the firing pin hole on the breech face....effectively rivetting the gun shut. Now I have been shooting shotguns for more than 35 years, and both of these are new experiences for me.....and not ones I would like to repeat............was it a dodgy batch of ammo.....should we contact the gun shop.......or is this more common situation with cheaper loads?

The double discharge will not be down to the cartride< it is a gun fault and requires some atention ASAP take it to your local gunsmith or give us a call at UK GUN Repairs and I will explain. ukgunrepairs.co.uk dont just leave it. Regards Sage.

[waidmann 105]

i had a 12 bore which would put the firing pin through "soft" primers this had thesame effect as described(riviting the gun shut,this was with skeet ammo both 24 and 28 gramm load from geco).

 

i doubt doubling was down to the load,get the gun checked soonest bud

 

waidmann

[Sidelock 10]

If its double fired get the hinge pin checked you may find its now OFF THE FACE, had this happen with a 16bore hammer gun ,,,, it blew it off the face needed rejointing

[Geoff.C 0]

At a charity clay shoot, where the entry included cartridges, I was given 3 boxes of the Saga brand. I thought they were reasonably easy shooting, comparing well to my own Express HV. Never had any problems with them.

[Tiddler66 3]

Many thanks for the replies. My gun is a cogswell and harrison....its in very good condition.....It was tightened before last season and serviced the season before that due to a broken ejector......and I have shot approx 400 shots through it this season since it was tightened. It has never played up before(except for the ejector). Prior to the double discharge, the gun was a tad tight, and it must have moved a bit, as its now spot on.....but not off the face in any way....what are the chances of two double discharges in two seperate guns (My mates is a spanish boxlock) and holing and blowing out the primer into the firing pin hole....all from the same box of ammo?.......and my mate gave me some SAGA that we used on snipe the year before last, and I found them to be a fine cartridge that left very clean barrels......but this lot.....boy oh boy......My wife says I am losing my marbles, but surely this can't be a coincidence?

[flytie 1]

Tiddler, contact the importers of Saga and explain what happened, they may like the rest of your purchase of their shells to test.

 

I have had problems in the past with Hull, leaving lots of unburnt powder in the barrels, and with Lyalvale Hevi-shots not firing even when the primer had been struck well. Both firms were more than happy to sort out the problems and left me feeling that both firms really cared about their customers.

 

If powder (or the cartridges) has been stored badly, got wet and dried out etc. it can make them more than a little crisp on the shoulder.

 

Atb, ft

Edited April 21, 2010 by flytie

[sage 0]

Many thanks for the replies. My gun is a cogswell and harrison....its in very good condition.....It was tightened before last season and serviced the season before that due to a broken ejector......and I have shot approx 400 shots through it this season since it was tightened. It has never played up before(except for the ejector). Prior to the double discharge, the gun was a tad tight, and it must have moved a bit, as its now spot on.....but not off the face in any way....what are the chances of two double discharges in two seperate guns (My mates is a spanish boxlock) and holing and blowing out the primer into the firing pin hole....all from the same box of ammo?.......and my mate gave me some SAGA that we used on snipe the year before last, and I found them to be a fine cartridge that left very clean barrels......but this lot.....boy oh boy......My wife says I am losing my marbles, but surely this can't be a coincidence?

 

Sorry the facts are as follows.

A cartridge in one barrel can not fire the one in the other by magic fact.

Recoil makes the hammer on the unfired barrel jump out of bent and as a result fires the second shot as a double discharge this hapens to single and double trigger guns.

A cartridge that produces more recoil prompts a gun /s with poor hammer/sear ingagement to show this fault slightly earler.

From your post you take good care of your guns please take your gun back to the smith that worked on your gun and tell him of your findings. It is not a big job, but one that MUST be looked at ASAP If left the gun may fire on closeing. Sounds like you have the company of your mate when you go.

 

If you want to chat about this I will willingly explain in full TEL NO on my web site UK GUN REPAIRS.

[Tiddler66 3]

Hello Sage, thanks for the advice tonight, it was great to talk to you.....I have been out running errands all night, so I have not yet tested the gun with the snap caps, but I will tomorrow, and I will let you know the result. Many thanks for your time and advice. Best wishes Dave T

[SportingShooter 0]

Sound advice there Sage

 

I've had a few double discharges with an older gun of mine, happened once and I stopped shooting and cleaned it inside and out, action and all to see if I could rectify it but a few shots down the line, it did the same again. But as has been said, not a massive job to correct but with a gun of Cogswell's name, its worth getting sorted to preserve the gun.

 

I've shot Saga before now and always found them fine to shoot. Didn't get on with them at all, but fine to shoot all the same.

 

From what you say, certainly from my experience, the primer tends to be pushed out when the cartridge is over pressured and the primer is the weakest point to give way. Happened with the odd shotgun shell and a few rifle cartridges too.

[Tiddler66 3]

Sage, as instructed, I loaded the snap caps and started to drop test the gun...I couldn't get it to go off........I was as violent as I dared be and nothing......I tried mostly with safety off, but also tried with it on.......nothing.......Also , following our conversation, the trigger pulls seem fine.....neither too light or too heavy.....and both triggers seem to have very similar pull pressures. It has been sugested to me that perhaps I hadn't pulled the barrels down far enough.......so it was cocked but only just...........What do you think.........Anyways whatever else happens, its going off to Richard for him to give it a once over....Wishing you a good weekend.

Dave T

[sage 0]

Sage, as instructed, I loaded the snap caps and started to drop test the gun...I couldn't get it to go off........I was as violent as I dared be and nothing......I tried mostly with safety off, but also tried with it on.......nothing.......Also , following our conversation, the trigger pulls seem fine.....neither too light or too heavy.....and both triggers seem to have very similar pull pressures. It has been sugested to me that perhaps I hadn't pulled the barrels down far enough.......so it was cocked but only just...........What do you think.........Anyways whatever else happens, its going off to Richard for him to give it a once over....Wishing you a good weekend.

Dave T

 

Hi Dave I think you are very wise to get it looked at. As for it only just cocking.... It wont be that because with most quality guns it has a cut bent in the hammer and the sear will engage fully or not at all. don't panic Richard will sort it out. Nice to chat Dave, have a good weekend. Regards Sage/Dennis.