Shows

[fmwtc 12]

thanks everyone for the comments hope to see you all at our show the south lakes fell and moorland club show saturday the 19th of june 2010

[MRD 3]

Well folks after reading the thread about the great yorkshire show refusing to let anyone enter a dog younger than three and a half with a docked tail even though working terriers have an exemption in place regarding the matter i as area rep for the south lakes fell and moorland working terrier club will be refusing to allow anyone to enter a terrier into our show without a docked tail unless it is in the border class the child handler or the family pet class this show is a working terrier show and that is what it will stay as i would like to encourage anyone else who is organising a working terrier show to join in with the no dock no show policy lets all stand together i also would be greatful of your comments too thanks for reading this

 

always remember your terriers ,

steve hudson south lakes fmwtc

"unless it is in the border class the child handler" or Bedlingtons.

[fmwtc 12]

[farlap 19]

you have got it wrong. its illegal to have docked dogs in the show if the public havepaid an entrance fee to the show ground itself.....it is not illegal to charge for the actual class entry fees. You simply have to make it "donation to enter" rather than charging an entry fee on the gate. I repeat...its the actual physical show entrance thats the problem (ie on the entry to the field or carpark) AND NOT actually entering the show classes thats the legal issue.

no we have not got it wrong we are a working terrier club holding a working terrier

show the act states working dogs can be shown to show the working ability are working

terrier judges judge on the the terriers suitabilty for work NOT CONFERMATION WORKING

TERRIER RULES NOT KC RULES AS THE ACT STATES IN ENGLAND A UNDOCKED TERRIER IN

THE EYES OF THE ANIMAL WELFARE ACT IS NOT SUITIBLY FOR WORK as the owner has chosen

if in england not to have it docked if your north of the border sorry we did not

make your law , its time to unite behind the act and use it as it is writen

all so as are area rep states the £1 donation give all a day membership and

the right to enter the FMWTC BEST ENTERD TERRIER , ANY ONE WHO WANTS PERMANENT

MEMBERSHIP CAN JOIN ON THE DAY , ALL WAYS REMEMBER YOUR TERRIERS

The act says "There is also a ban on the showing of dogs docked after this date at events where

members of the public have paid an entrance fee. This ban does not apply where

a dog is shown only for the purpose of demonstrating its working ability."

So are you saying that at your shows the dogs are "demonstrating their working ability"? and that they are not being judged conformationally? In this case there is no need to have a judge individually assess (hands on) each exhibit.....instead he should be assesing their working ability. I dont think Id want to take that risk in court!!! Far better in my humble opinion to not charge a gate fee, ask for a voluntary donation, and not take the risk. Always some sad git who will try and get you in trouble and its so easy to get around the law quite legitimately I see little point in trying to push an interpretaion for the sake of being awkward!

[birddog 1,354]

am i missing something? what about scottish guys travelling to shows i believe the rules/laws are a little diferent but i admire the point of sticking together

[fionn 21]

am i missing something? what about scottish guys travelling to shows i believe the rules/laws are a little diferent but i admire the point of sticking together

im irish so if i wanted to go over to show my docked terrier

whats the problem every dogman in england knows someone in ireland so why not get your pups docked over here its still legal its shit like this lost the hunting in first place stand up for your hunting and showing ur working dogs

[fmwtc 12]

you have got it wrong. its illegal to have docked dogs in the show if the public havepaid an entrance fee to the show ground itself.....it is not illegal to charge for the actual class entry fees. You simply have to make it "donation to enter" rather than charging an entry fee on the gate. I repeat...its the actual physical show entrance thats the problem (ie on the entry to the field or carpark) AND NOT actually entering the show classes thats the legal issue.

no we have not got it wrong we are a working terrier club holding a working terrier

show the act states working dogs can be shown to show the working ability are working

terrier judges judge on the the terriers suitabilty for work NOT CONFERMATION WORKING

TERRIER RULES NOT KC RULES AS THE ACT STATES IN ENGLAND A UNDOCKED TERRIER IN

THE EYES OF THE ANIMAL WELFARE ACT IS NOT SUITIBLY FOR WORK as the owner has chosen

if in england not to have it docked if your north of the border sorry we did not

make your law , its time to unite behind the act and use it as it is writen

all so as are area rep states the £1 donation give all a day membership and

the right to enter the FMWTC BEST ENTERD TERRIER , ANY ONE WHO WANTS PERMANENT

MEMBERSHIP CAN JOIN ON THE DAY , ALL WAYS REMEMBER YOUR TERRIERS

The act says "There is also a ban on the showing of dogs docked after this date at events where

members of the public have paid an entrance fee. This ban does not apply where

a dog is shown only for the purpose of demonstrating its working ability."

So are you saying that at your shows the dogs are "demonstrating their working ability"? and that they are not being judged conformationally? In this case there is no need to have a judge individually assess (hands on) each exhibit.....instead he should be assesing their working ability. I dont think Id want to take that risk in court!!! Far better in my humble opinion to not charge a gate fee, ask for a voluntary donation, and not take the risk. Always some sad git who will try and get you in trouble and its so easy to get around the law quite legitimately I see little point in trying to push an interpretaion for the sake of being awkward!

awkward is my middle name while i apreciate your concern farlap this show is a working terrier show for working terriers a non working show dog may aswell stay in its box as it will not be winning this show like last yr the judge judged on his idea of working ability he placed dogs that wernt the best in the mouth before some real nice looking show ponys like i have already stated it will be a donation to enter your dogs on the day i as a club will not be charging for nyone to enter our show the farmer that ownts the land may choose to charge a small fee to park a car in a field near by typical farme rbut he is nothing to do with our show just someone jumping on the band wagon when a quick buck is seen to be able to be made I STATE YET AGAIN THE SOUTH LAKES FELL AND MOORLAND CLUB SHOW WILL NOT BE CHARGING ANYONE TO ENTER ANY TERRIER CLASS BUT WE WILL BE ASKING FOR A DONATION OF A MINIMUM OF A POUND what im sure all decent dog lads will be willing to donate in order to try and win some exellent prizes farlap why not come for the day fetch your camera and a few pictures im sure you would sell them thanks for your concern

[bristol tim 135]

Well folks after reading the thread about the great yorkshire show refusing to let anyone enter a dog younger than three and a half with a docked tail even though working terriers have an exemption in place regarding the matter i as area rep for the south lakes fell and moorland working terrier club will be refusing to allow anyone to enter a terrier into our show without a docked tail unless it is in the border class the child handler or the family pet class this show is a working terrier show and that is what it will stay as i would like to encourage anyone else who is organising a working terrier show to join in with the no dock no show policy lets all stand together i also would be greatful of your comments too thanks for reading this

 

always remember your terriers ,

steve hudson south lakes fmwtc

well said

[Barrie 1,325]

There seems to be a fair bit of confusion in this thread about what the requirements of the Act are or aren't, what restrictions do apply and how to fully comply with the Act without excluding any terriers regardless of when they were docked.

 

Farlap IS CORRECT and the restrictions only apply to "shows where the public are admitted upon payment of a fee". So if entrance to the show ground itself is free then the restrictions DO NOT APPLY and it is also perfectly legal to charge an entry for each class.

 

The approach which a number of clubs have taken and which appears to work well, both for the exhibitors and for the show organisers, is to drop any entrance/car parking charges and increase the ring entry fees from say £1 to £2. That way the increased revenue in the ring compensates for the loss of gate money, no one's any worse off and the restrictions on showing docked dogs do not apply.

 

This is fully covered on the NWTF website under Tail Docking Info.

 

If anyone needs any further clarification just drop me a PM or give me a call.

 

Kindest Regards - Barrie

Edited May 1, 2010 by Barrie

[fmwtc 12]

thanks barrie

[Cleanspade 3,324]

cheers lads for discriminating against. working dogs from north of the border. you are turning away working lads and working dogs becouse they have a tail. and welcoming all dogs if docked. thought looks didnt matter on a worker. heres one that wont go to any shows north of the border again. you can bite my banger. fcukin unity dont make me laugh

[fmwtc 12]

fisrtly cleanspade i know loads of workin dog men from scotland and they havent rolled over to the docking law its easy find a vet in england to do it for you perfectly legal i have looked at all show threads from north of the border and have yet to see a dog without a docked tail even the pup classes i havent discriminated against anyone i have just stated i will not roll over like it looks you have why start an argument i didnt as for biting your banger come on mate act your age not your shoe size hunting has become illegal under the labour government have we rolled over no.if everyone was like you the working terrier would be in big trouble big trouble in deed i wish you every bit of luck in the world with your undocked dogs working them underground the way they were bred too with tails but i dont envy your vet bills at the end of the season it would be cheaper to drive to a vet in england to get them docked legitimatly would it not

[Cleanspade 3,324]

fisrtly cleanspade i know loads of workin dog men from scotland and they havent rolled over to the docking law its easy find a vet in england to do it for you perfectly legal i have looked at all show threads from north of the border and have yet to see a dog without a docked tail even the pup classes i havent discriminated against anyone i have just stated i will not roll over like it looks you have why start an argument i didnt as for biting your banger come on mate act your age not your shoe size hunting has become illegal under the labour government have we rolled over no.if everyone was like you the working terrier would be in big trouble big trouble in deed i wish you every bit of luck in the world with your undocked dogs working them underground the way they were bred too with tails but i dont envy your vet bills at the end of the season it would be cheaper to drive to a vet in england to get them docked legitimatly would it not

 

firstly i dont yet own an undocked terrier my terriers are either old enough to be legally docked or have been bought in legally docked. if and when i breed a litter they will not be docked. as its illegal here. i was not aware that i could drive across the border and legally dock a litter of scottish bred pups. (could someone please clarify this?) i know a lad that works two undocked terriers and its only the usual places that take the odd nick the tails seam fine. i have nothing against making a stand for your rights but i believe you descriminating against undocked terriers is not the way forward. however few it would be easy to say lads from scotland drop me a pm and we can sort an exemption for you to come down for a day . maybe there arnt any but its the thought that counts

[Barrie 1,325]

i was not aware that i could drive across the border and legally dock a litter of scottish bred pups. (could someone please clarify this?)

 

That's also covered on the NWTF website under Tail Docking Info.

 

I hope it helps clarify things.

 

Kindest Regards - Barrie

[Foxgun Tom 75]

You cannot under any circumstances dock a litter of pups born in Scotland in England " thats!! a criminal offence!!" what is legal is!! if you take your bitch and she whelps in England and you can provide evidence that the pup's will be used for pest control etc: that's legal!!

 

Don't for any reason take pup's bred in Scotland into England to be docked as "you are commiting a criminal offence"!!

 

Tom

fisrtly cleanspade i know loads of workin dog men from scotland and they havent rolled over to the docking law its easy find a vet in england to do it for you perfectly legal i have looked at all show threads from north of the border and have yet to see a dog without a docked tail even the pup classes i havent discriminated against anyone i have just stated i will not roll over like it looks you have why start an argument i didnt as for biting your banger come on mate act your age not your shoe size hunting has become illegal under the labour government have we rolled over no.if everyone was like you the working terrier would be in big trouble big trouble in deed i wish you every bit of luck in the world with your undocked dogs working them underground the way they were bred too with tails but i dont envy your vet bills at the end of the season it would be cheaper to drive to a vet in england to get them docked legitimatly would it not

 

firstly i dont yet own an undocked terrier my terriers are either old enough to be legally docked or have been bought in legally docked. if and when i breed a litter they will not be docked. as its illegal here. i was not aware that i could drive across the border and legally dock a litter of scottish bred pups. (could someone please clarify this?) i know a lad that works two undocked terriers and its only the usual places that take the odd nick the tails seam fine. i have nothing against making a stand for your rights but i believe you descriminating against undocked terriers is not the way forward. however few it would be easy to say lads from scotland drop me a pm and we can sort an exemption for you to come down for a day . maybe there arnt any but its the thought that counts