Gun Control

[Nik_B 3,790]

In the UK if you put barbed wire up you can be sued by someone entering your property and getting injured by it....if you are broken in to while in bed you are allowed to use 'proportionate force' i.e.e you need to nip down stairs in your slippers and check how they are armed before picking up a cricket bat or knife to defend you family. I think there are problems with the american system but it's rediculous how anyone can critisise it when our own system protects criminals more than the victims.

[Attack Fell Terrier 864]

UK - Violent crime rate is equivalent to 2300 per 100,000 inhabitants.

 

USA - Violent crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants was 469.2

 

Not everything is as simple as it sounds.

 

American has more gun crime that is true but if the above can be believed the UK is more dangerous in different ways.

 

Source

 

Where did you get that from mate?

 

A violent crime can be someone being pushed onto the floor, or slapped around the face, which is hardly serious, it doesn't always represent someone being battered into a coma, or stabbed. And it still doesn't change the fact that their murder rate in the USA is worse than ours (Especially by gun).

 

I'll take this one with much regret, I already know, but....most of our crime stats come from major US cities have very strict gun laws . Many come close to yours in the UK.

But guess what ? Crime rates remained high.....why ? Because only law abiding citizens obeyed the gun laws.

 

Than Florida finally came to their senses and became what's called a 'shall issue'state ...meaning if you are legally able to own a firearm than you are essentially guaranteed a CCW permit.And wonders of wonders....the violent crime rate plummeted .

 

Soon , other states followed suit and more violent crime rates dropped....except in cities that still clung to the false answer of disarmament.

 

 

All that being said, regardless, we have a guaranteed right to be armed. Compromise one and might as well compromise them all. That's what's good for the US.

I'm not about to suggest what's good for the UK.

 

How you doin' Aaron, Your last few words there I agree with 100%, which is why I said originally that I don't think we should be looking to the USA for solutions to our own problems.

 

Would it not be that the crime rate is higher in the major cities because of poverty? Rather than just the current gun laws? Maybe if you deal with the source of the peoples problems, then there will be no need to arm yourself to the teeth in order to stop them from robbing you?

 

As for the crime rates dropping, Initially the crime rate is bound to drop when a new law has been brought in, give it time and things will go back to how they were if the source of the problems that cause people to commit crime are not addressed.

 

But that's just how I see it.

[RicW 67]

All charges against the guy who killed a burglar he found breaking into his mum's house have been dropped.

Ric

[SHOTGUNSNIPER 47]

Where did you get that from mate?

 

A violent crime can be someone being pushed onto the floor, or slapped around the face, which is hardly serious, it doesn't always represent someone being battered into a coma, or stabbed. And it still doesn't change the fact that their murder rate in the USA is worse than ours (Especially by gun).

 

A violent crime is a violent crime in Arizona - commit aggravated assault which is any one the violent acts mentioned above and you go to jail and loose you gun rights's for ever....When the police answer domestic violence call's - some one is going to jail - usually the man. We don't tolerate this kind of activity slapping, pushing , battering all can lead to more serious violence if tolerated even the physc Doctors know that. If the rest of the UK thinks as you AFT then I can understand why there are problems with youth gangs and violent non gun crimes..

Along those line's I have heard it mentioned here and on other threads as to how much "different" your criminals are as if they were so bad ass that Americans can't comprehend it..... Maybe your criminals are "special" because you system and culture treat's them with kid gloves...

We don't have near the problems with youth gang's or gang's as the UK... We do have gangs but hey are in the big citys that have similar gun laws and similar liberal liberal law and kid glove way's of dealing with common criminals as the UK. You see , the liberals want to convince you that criminals just had a bad childhood and need a break, they look at illegal aliens in the same light....They think their criminals are "special" just like the UK.

 

When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone. ---- Is misinforming you!

 

I am beginning to see how your British liberal logic work's - Look at a situation/scenario then make many laws banning everything from red tennis shoes to armpit hairs - then tell the rest of the world how refined and advanced the UK cultural is..... TA TA and Tally Hoe and all that rot....

 

Quoting gun crime statistic's are a narrow minded liberal way of looking at a complex problem.... People are murdered with scissors, pencils, fire pokers, rolling pins , frying pans and they are just as dead as any other method.... The UK people have been culturally conditioned into thinking that guns are evil and must be tightly regulated while the culturally conditioned common criminals are treated with "kid gloves"... They do the same sort of things in many of the large American cities..... So it is not just in the UK....

Take a look at how the overall crime statistics have plummeted in Washington DC since the gun bann was repealed, a little over one year ago even "gun crime" as you love to reference has fallen...... Again I am not claiming to have solutions to any problems over there. When one solution dosn't work than try another - I think the gun ban repeal in Washington DC is a good example of this "logic".......

[Aaron Proffitt 142]

UK - Violent crime rate is equivalent to 2300 per 100,000 inhabitants.

 

USA - Violent crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants was 469.2

 

Not everything is as simple as it sounds.

 

American has more gun crime that is true but if the above can be believed the UK is more dangerous in different ways.

 

Source

 

Where did you get that from mate?

 

A violent crime can be someone being pushed onto the floor, or slapped around the face, which is hardly serious, it doesn't always represent someone being battered into a coma, or stabbed. And it still doesn't change the fact that their murder rate in the USA is worse than ours (Especially by gun).

 

I'll take this one with much regret, I already know, but....most of our crime stats come from major US cities have very strict gun laws . Many come close to yours in the UK.

But guess what ? Crime rates remained high.....why ? Because only law abiding citizens obeyed the gun laws.

 

Than Florida finally came to their senses and became what's called a 'shall issue'state ...meaning if you are legally able to own a firearm than you are essentially guaranteed a CCW permit.And wonders of wonders....the violent crime rate plummeted .

 

Soon , other states followed suit and more violent crime rates dropped....except in cities that still clung to the false answer of disarmament.

 

 

All that being said, regardless, we have a guaranteed right to be armed. Compromise one and might as well compromise them all. That's what's good for the US.

I'm not about to suggest what's good for the UK.

 

How you doin' Aaron, Your last few words there I agree with 100%, which is why I said originally that I don't think we should be looking to the USA for solutions to our own problems.

 

Would it not be that the crime rate is higher in the major cities because of poverty? Rather than just the current gun laws? Maybe if you deal with the source of the peoples problems, then there will be no need to arm yourself to the teeth in order to stop them from robbing you?

 

As for the crime rates dropping, Initially the crime rate is bound to drop when a new law has been brought in, give it time and things will go back to how they were if the source of the problems that cause people to commit crime are not addressed.

 

But that's just how I see it.

 

 

Hello AFT . I am doing well and hope all is well with you and yours.

To a degree, crime does drop after legislation addresses the issue. However, it's has been more or less dropping for 20 years . You might see a year when it bumps a little, but it continues to drop.Obviously, our murder rate surged in 2001. Some statistical genius once counted all 4,000 victims of 9/11 as a singular event.

Aside from that, your very correct when you say a multitude of factors contribute to a dangerous society.

 

Here's a prime one that I am sure SSG is very familiar with. And has very few solutions that will come anytime soon.

Our desert South West is a very dangerous place to be ....due to those involved with alien and drug smuggling and are obviously attached to the Mexican Cartels. The feds are taking a limp dicked stance on enforcement and local and state agencies are to under manned to deal with it.So, many places along the border are largely lawless.

 

What's a citizen to do ? What choice do they have ?

[othickman 6]

I fully understand why the Americans like to be allowed to have guns, I understand why they like to carry them with them, what I don't understand is why the general public want to be able to carry concealed weapons?! Surely, from the point of view of someone who isn't planning on using it, it is a better idea to carry their gun on a hip holster; that way anyone who might consider pulling any shit when they're nearby won't... I personally would hate for the general public to be able to do that in my country, but I see the pros of carrying a gun. BUT to carry it concealed does NOT act as a deterrent against crime it acts as either a way to defend yourself when someone starts letting lead fly or a way to commit crime MUCH easier. Now, you rarely will ever have to defend yourself when in public, so point one is relatively obsolete, which only leaves crime as the only pro of concealed weapons.

 

So why do the general public want it???

 

I consider the use of a firearm a last resort -- If a man is conducting himself properly and is well trained than a pistol is a last resort solution to most situations. On that note why "show your ace in the hole". Open carry makes a target for criminals who might try to take the openly carried pistol.... Concealed carry is what intimidates criminals - You never know who's got a pistol and that is why they think twice...

Anti gun folks would start conflicts with people who are carrying weapons in the open.....Just to have the police disarm someone for the sake making a point......

Recently I had an individual (animal rights activist) claim I threatened beat her and that I had t a gun - When questioned she described a silver revolver - she was right and she was wrong - I was carrying concealed - a Colt 1911 .45acp longslide in Black... That saved me a trip to jail as it proved her a liar to the sheriff... Many of the Old West towns in yesteryear had it figured out - They allowed concealed carry and it was illegal to open carry - It was considered an unreasonable show of force - a sort of brandishment intimidation. Brandishment is still illegal here in Arizona.... It is threatening with a deadly weapon - you don't even have to point a gun or remove it from the holster to commit brandishment.... I think this answer's your question now I have one for you.

When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you.

othickman - your claims to understanding Americans are obviously based in misinformation and false hoods and it's obvious you know nothing about guns or Americans...... You have probably run your mouth allot about your ideas of Americans. But I doubt that you have ever had a conversation with an American.... And I seriously doubt that you have been to the USA...

.SGS:

 

I didn't expect any answer's to my question ........

First of all, having read through all your posts on this thread I am beginning to see your point. Secondly I regularly have conversations with Americans, but no I have never been to the USA, and my opinions most likely are based on misinformation and falsehoods, furthermore I'm entitled to my stereotypical, generalised, naive, ignorant, and perhaps even downright stupid opinions, but I would like to point out I did not claim to understand Americans merely why they like to carry guns, which is a pretty simple thing to understand. However thank you for that very informative post, it made good reading and got me to question my opinions which is always a good thing.

 

As for

"When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you?"

I'm not a complete idiot, I realise the UK is far from a safe utopia and I accept that. Perhaps my dislike of laws that allow the public to easily attain compact, ranged, killing machines that are intended only for the killing of other humans, is not a dislike or misunderstanding of the USA but a extreme dislike and in fact total distrust of the general public I know, which therefore makes me dubious of the possibility of other country's general public being trustable with such weapons.

 

And believe you me, I believe strongly that the UK's laws are shit, I don't need to explain or justify that sentence as you seem to know enough about our liberal, over PC country.

 

 

Now, a simple, straightforward question for you: When you're not carrying, who are you more afraid/worried about/wary of/whatever of:

- The shady guy who openly has a gun on his hip clearly and publicly

- The same shady guy in a state where concealed carry is legal, but you cannot see a firearm on him

- The same shady guy but in a british city (others are in America, but it doesn't matter if its a city or not, also please note this is NOT a comparison between countries and their laws, I'm just curious).

[dave1372 83]

In the UK if you put barbed wire up you can be sued by someone entering your property and getting injured by it....if you are broken in to while in bed you are allowed to use 'proportionate force' i.e.e you need to nip down stairs in your slippers and check how they are armed before picking up a cricket bat or knife to defend you family. I think there are problems with the american system but it's rediculous how anyone can critisise it when our own system protects criminals more than the victims.

 

Hit the nail on the head ! i would rather adopt the US system than use ours

[Aaron Proffitt 142]

Now, a simple, straightforward question for you: When you're not carrying, who are you more afraid/worried about/wary of/whatever of:

- The shady guy who openly has a gun on his hip clearly and publicly

- The same shady guy in a state where concealed carry is legal, but you cannot see a firearm on him

- The same shady guy but in a british city (others are in America, but it doesn't matter if its a city or not, also please note this is NOT a comparison between countries and their laws, I'm just curious).

 

 

Of all of those I am more afraid of the shady guys in Washington, D.C..

[SHOTGUNSNIPER 47]

I fully understand why the Americans like to be allowed to have guns, I understand why they like to carry them with them, what I don't understand is why the general public want to be able to carry concealed weapons?! Surely, from the point of view of someone who isn't planning on using it, it is a better idea to carry their gun on a hip holster; that way anyone who might consider pulling any shit when they're nearby won't... I personally would hate for the general public to be able to do that in my country, but I see the pros of carrying a gun. BUT to carry it concealed does NOT act as a deterrent against crime it acts as either a way to defend yourself when someone starts letting lead fly or a way to commit crime MUCH easier. Now, you rarely will ever have to defend yourself when in public, so point one is relatively obsolete, which only leaves crime as the only pro of concealed weapons.

 

So why do the general public want it???

 

I consider the use of a firearm a last resort -- If a man is conducting himself properly and is well trained than a pistol is a last resort solution to most situations. On that note why "show your ace in the hole". Open carry makes a target for criminals who might try to take the openly carried pistol.... Concealed carry is what intimidates criminals - You never know who's got a pistol and that is why they think twice...

Anti gun folks would start conflicts with people who are carrying weapons in the open.....Just to have the police disarm someone for the sake making a point......

Recently I had an individual (animal rights activist) claim I threatened beat her and that I had t a gun - When questioned she described a silver revolver - she was right and she was wrong - I was carrying concealed - a Colt 1911 .45acp longslide in Black... That saved me a trip to jail as it proved her a liar to the sheriff... Many of the Old West towns in yesteryear had it figured out - They allowed concealed carry and it was illegal to open carry - It was considered an unreasonable show of force - a sort of brandishment intimidation. Brandishment is still illegal here in Arizona.... It is threatening with a deadly weapon - you don't even have to point a gun or remove it from the holster to commit brandishment.... I think this answer's your question now I have one for you.

When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you.

othickman - your claims to understanding Americans are obviously based in misinformation and false hoods and it's obvious you know nothing about guns or Americans...... You have probably run your mouth allot about your ideas of Americans. But I doubt that you have ever had a conversation with an American.... And I seriously doubt that you have been to the USA...

.SGS:

 

I didn't expect any answer's to my question ........

First of all, having read through all your posts on this thread I am beginning to see your point. Secondly I regularly have conversations with Americans, but no I have never been to the USA, and my opinions most likely are based on misinformation and falsehoods, furthermore I'm entitled to my stereotypical, generalised, naive, ignorant, and perhaps even downright stupid opinions, but I would like to point out I did not claim to understand Americans merely why they like to carry guns, which is a pretty simple thing to understand. However thank you for that very informative post, it made good reading and got me to question my opinions which is always a good thing.

 

As for

"When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you?"

I'm not a complete idiot, I realise the UK is far from a safe utopia and I accept that. Perhaps my dislike of laws that allow the public to easily attain compact, ranged, killing machines that are intended only for the killing of other humans, is not a dislike or misunderstanding of the USA but a extreme dislike and in fact total distrust of the general public I know, which therefore makes me dubious of the possibility of other country's general public being trustable with such weapons.

 

And believe you me, I believe strongly that the UK's laws are shit, I don't need to explain or justify that sentence as you seem to know enough about our liberal, over PC country.

 

 

Now, a simple, straightforward question for you: When you're not carrying, who are you more afraid/worried about/wary of/whatever of:

- The shady guy who openly has a gun on his hip clearly and publicly

- The same shady guy in a state where concealed carry is legal, but you cannot see a firearm on him

- The same shady guy but in a british city (others are in America, but it doesn't matter if its a city or not, also please note this is NOT a comparison between countries and their laws, I'm just curious).

 

I have a system that I use when out and about - It keeps me prepared to access and deal with problems/situations correctly and in a safe and legal manner... I have had some training....and I have survived being shot - twice!

Let's just say I am ready to deal with a shady guy - gun or no gun....

I am not saying that I have no fear... The system I use has taught me to get past my fears.... fear IS a mans worst enemy!

I don't know all the British laws and I hope I don't have to deal with a shady guy in the UK as I would probably get arrested and end up sleeping with a bunch of shady guy's....

I like your realization that the general public can't be trusted. Remember just because you are a tad bit paranoid dose not mean that nobody is out to get you.....LOL

Your open mindedness has impressed me. I am not anti Brit I am anti Liberal - You would do well in America - Survivor attitude Pip Pip....

SGS

[Lee85 44]

let's here your being shot stories, i'm intrigued! ?

[Nik_B 3,790]

UK - Violent crime rate is equivalent to 2300 per 100,000 inhabitants.

 

USA - Violent crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants was 469.2

 

Not everything is as simple as it sounds.

 

American has more gun crime that is true but if the above can be believed the UK is more dangerous in different ways.

 

Source

 

Where did you get that from mate?

 

A violent crime can be someone being pushed onto the floor, or slapped around the face, which is hardly serious, it doesn't always represent someone being battered into a coma, or stabbed. And it still doesn't change the fact that their murder rate in the USA is worse than ours (Especially by gun).

 

I'll take this one with much regret, I already know, but....most of our crime stats come from major US cities have very strict gun laws . Many come close to yours in the UK.

But guess what ? Crime rates remained high.....why ? Because only law abiding citizens obeyed the gun laws.

 

Than Florida finally came to their senses and became what's called a 'shall issue'state ...meaning if you are legally able to own a firearm than you are essentially guaranteed a CCW permit.And wonders of wonders....the violent crime rate plummeted .

 

Soon , other states followed suit and more violent crime rates dropped....except in cities that still clung to the false answer of disarmament.

 

 

All that being said, regardless, we have a guaranteed right to be armed. Compromise one and might as well compromise them all. That's what's good for the US.

I'm not about to suggest what's good for the UK.

 

How you doin' Aaron, Your last few words there I agree with 100%, which is why I said originally that I don't think we should be looking to the USA for solutions to our own problems.

 

Would it not be that the crime rate is higher in the major cities because of poverty? Rather than just the current gun laws? Maybe if you deal with the source of the peoples problems, then there will be no need to arm yourself to the teeth in order to stop them from robbing you?

 

As for the crime rates dropping, Initially the crime rate is bound to drop when a new law has been brought in, give it time and things will go back to how they were if the source of the problems that cause people to commit crime are not addressed.

 

But that's just how I see it.

 

Hi

 

The stats come from http://wheelgun.blogspot.com/2007/01/crime-in-uk-versus-crime-in-us.html

 

You aren't wrong about the classification of violent crime and I'm not claiming to be an expert. I just wouldn't be supprised if the chance of getting beaten up or assaulted in the UK was very high in the UK compaired to any where in Europe and even the USA. I've heard many foreign people (including americans) say they didn't feel very safe in the UK. There isn't anywhere in the world I've been where I feel so 'on my toes' as when I'm at home and that includes Saudi Arabia and Algeria both terrorist hotspots. I could be paranoid or more judgemental of people over here as I obviously know brits much better that people in any other country.

 

In the USA you are more likely to be murdered that in the UK according to the stats but apparently less likely to be the victim of violent crime (again according to those stats). Maybe people think twice before trying to start a fight or attack someone because guns are so common?

 

I think at the very least it is an interesting subject and worthy of debate.

 

Cheers

 

Nik

[othickman 6]

I fully understand why the Americans like to be allowed to have guns, I understand why they like to carry them with them, what I don't understand is why the general public want to be able to carry concealed weapons?! Surely, from the point of view of someone who isn't planning on using it, it is a better idea to carry their gun on a hip holster; that way anyone who might consider pulling any shit when they're nearby won't... I personally would hate for the general public to be able to do that in my country, but I see the pros of carrying a gun. BUT to carry it concealed does NOT act as a deterrent against crime it acts as either a way to defend yourself when someone starts letting lead fly or a way to commit crime MUCH easier. Now, you rarely will ever have to defend yourself when in public, so point one is relatively obsolete, which only leaves crime as the only pro of concealed weapons.

 

So why do the general public want it???

 

I consider the use of a firearm a last resort -- If a man is conducting himself properly and is well trained than a pistol is a last resort solution to most situations. On that note why "show your ace in the hole". Open carry makes a target for criminals who might try to take the openly carried pistol.... Concealed carry is what intimidates criminals - You never know who's got a pistol and that is why they think twice...

Anti gun folks would start conflicts with people who are carrying weapons in the open.....Just to have the police disarm someone for the sake making a point......

Recently I had an individual (animal rights activist) claim I threatened beat her and that I had t a gun - When questioned she described a silver revolver - she was right and she was wrong - I was carrying concealed - a Colt 1911 .45acp longslide in Black... That saved me a trip to jail as it proved her a liar to the sheriff... Many of the Old West towns in yesteryear had it figured out - They allowed concealed carry and it was illegal to open carry - It was considered an unreasonable show of force - a sort of brandishment intimidation. Brandishment is still illegal here in Arizona.... It is threatening with a deadly weapon - you don't even have to point a gun or remove it from the holster to commit brandishment.... I think this answer's your question now I have one for you.

When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you.

othickman - your claims to understanding Americans are obviously based in misinformation and false hoods and it's obvious you know nothing about guns or Americans...... You have probably run your mouth allot about your ideas of Americans. But I doubt that you have ever had a conversation with an American.... And I seriously doubt that you have been to the USA...

.SGS:

 

I didn't expect any answer's to my question ........

First of all, having read through all your posts on this thread I am beginning to see your point. Secondly I regularly have conversations with Americans, but no I have never been to the USA, and my opinions most likely are based on misinformation and falsehoods, furthermore I'm entitled to my stereotypical, generalised, naive, ignorant, and perhaps even downright stupid opinions, but I would like to point out I did not claim to understand Americans merely why they like to carry guns, which is a pretty simple thing to understand. However thank you for that very informative post, it made good reading and got me to question my opinions which is always a good thing.

 

As for

"When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you?"

I'm not a complete idiot, I realise the UK is far from a safe utopia and I accept that. Perhaps my dislike of laws that allow the public to easily attain compact, ranged, killing machines that are intended only for the killing of other humans, is not a dislike or misunderstanding of the USA but a extreme dislike and in fact total distrust of the general public I know, which therefore makes me dubious of the possibility of other country's general public being trustable with such weapons.

 

And believe you me, I believe strongly that the UK's laws are shit, I don't need to explain or justify that sentence as you seem to know enough about our liberal, over PC country.

 

 

Now, a simple, straightforward question for you: When you're not carrying, who are you more afraid/worried about/wary of/whatever of:

- The shady guy who openly has a gun on his hip clearly and publicly

- The same shady guy in a state where concealed carry is legal, but you cannot see a firearm on him

- The same shady guy but in a british city (others are in America, but it doesn't matter if its a city or not, also please note this is NOT a comparison between countries and their laws, I'm just curious).

 

I have a system that I use when out and about - It keeps me prepared to access and deal with problems/situations correctly and in a safe and legal manner... I have had some training....and I have survived being shot - twice!

Let's just say I am ready to deal with a shady guy - gun or no gun....

I am not saying that I have no fear... The system I use has taught me to get past my fears.... fear IS a mans worst enemy!

I don't know all the British laws and I hope I don't have to deal with a shady guy in the UK as I would probably get arrested and end up sleeping with a bunch of shady guy's....

I like your realization that the general public can't be trusted. Remember just because you are a tad bit paranoid dose not mean that nobody is out to get you.....LOL

Your open mindedness has impressed me. I am not anti Brit I am anti Liberal - You would do well in America - Survivor attitude Pip Pip....

SGS

Lol, I'm not paranoid I just know a lot of people I wouldn't trust with a BB gun nevermind a glock.

 

And yes, defend yourself in this country and you will end up in prison.

 

Oh and I agree with Lee; lets here these shooting stories lol, and out of interest was this in the line of duty (police, army?) or as a civilian? I'm presuming the former as I would of guessed that if you had got shot twice as a civilian you would surely be against the public having guns?

[SHOTGUNSNIPER 47]

I fully understand why the Americans like to be allowed to have guns, I understand why they like to carry them with them, what I don't understand is why the general public want to be able to carry concealed weapons?! Surely, from the point of view of someone who isn't planning on using it, it is a better idea to carry their gun on a hip holster; that way anyone who might consider pulling any shit when they're nearby won't... I personally would hate for the general public to be able to do that in my country, but I see the pros of carrying a gun. BUT to carry it concealed does NOT act as a deterrent against crime it acts as either a way to defend yourself when someone starts letting lead fly or a way to commit crime MUCH easier. Now, you rarely will ever have to defend yourself when in public, so point one is relatively obsolete, which only leaves crime as the only pro of concealed weapons.

 

So why do the general public want it???

 

I consider the use of a firearm a last resort -- If a man is conducting himself properly and is well trained than a pistol is a last resort solution to most situations. On that note why "show your ace in the hole". Open carry makes a target for criminals who might try to take the openly carried pistol.... Concealed carry is what intimidates criminals - You never know who's got a pistol and that is why they think twice...

Anti gun folks would start conflicts with people who are carrying weapons in the open.....Just to have the police disarm someone for the sake making a point......

Recently I had an individual (animal rights activist) claim I threatened beat her and that I had t a gun - When questioned she described a silver revolver - she was right and she was wrong - I was carrying concealed - a Colt 1911 .45acp longslide in Black... That saved me a trip to jail as it proved her a liar to the sheriff... Many of the Old West towns in yesteryear had it figured out - They allowed concealed carry and it was illegal to open carry - It was considered an unreasonable show of force - a sort of brandishment intimidation. Brandishment is still illegal here in Arizona.... It is threatening with a deadly weapon - you don't even have to point a gun or remove it from the holster to commit brandishment.... I think this answer's your question now I have one for you.

When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you.

othickman - your claims to understanding Americans are obviously based in misinformation and false hoods and it's obvious you know nothing about guns or Americans...... You have probably run your mouth allot about your ideas of Americans. But I doubt that you have ever had a conversation with an American.... And I seriously doubt that you have been to the USA...

.SGS:

 

I didn't expect any answer's to my question ........

First of all, having read through all your posts on this thread I am beginning to see your point. Secondly I regularly have conversations with Americans, but no I have never been to the USA, and my opinions most likely are based on misinformation and falsehoods, furthermore I'm entitled to my stereotypical, generalised, naive, ignorant, and perhaps even downright stupid opinions, but I would like to point out I did not claim to understand Americans merely why they like to carry guns, which is a pretty simple thing to understand. However thank you for that very informative post, it made good reading and got me to question my opinions which is always a good thing.

 

As for

"When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you?"

I'm not a complete idiot, I realise the UK is far from a safe utopia and I accept that. Perhaps my dislike of laws that allow the public to easily attain compact, ranged, killing machines that are intended only for the killing of other humans, is not a dislike or misunderstanding of the USA but a extreme dislike and in fact total distrust of the general public I know, which therefore makes me dubious of the possibility of other country's general public being trustable with such weapons.

 

And believe you me, I believe strongly that the UK's laws are shit, I don't need to explain or justify that sentence as you seem to know enough about our liberal, over PC country.

 

 

Now, a simple, straightforward question for you: When you're not carrying, who are you more afraid/worried about/wary of/whatever of:

- The shady guy who openly has a gun on his hip clearly and publicly

- The same shady guy in a state where concealed carry is legal, but you cannot see a firearm on him

- The same shady guy but in a british city (others are in America, but it doesn't matter if its a city or not, also please note this is NOT a comparison between countries and their laws, I'm just curious).

 

I have a system that I use when out and about - It keeps me prepared to access and deal with problems/situations correctly and in a safe and legal manner... I have had some training....and I have survived being shot - twice!

Let's just say I am ready to deal with a shady guy - gun or no gun....

I am not saying that I have no fear... The system I use has taught me to get past my fears.... fear IS a mans worst enemy!

I don't know all the British laws and I hope I don't have to deal with a shady guy in the UK as I would probably get arrested and end up sleeping with a bunch of shady guy's....

I like your realization that the general public can't be trusted. Remember just because you are a tad bit paranoid dose not mean that nobody is out to get you.....LOL

Your open mindedness has impressed me. I am not anti Brit I am anti Liberal - You would do well in America - Survivor attitude Pip Pip....

SGS

Lol, I'm not paranoid I just know a lot of people I wouldn't trust with a BB gun nevermind a glock.

 

And yes, defend yourself in this country and you will end up in prison.

 

Oh and I agree with Lee; lets here these shooting stories lol, and out of interest was this in the line of duty (police, army?) or as a civilian? I'm presuming the former as I would of guessed that if you had got shot twice as a civilian you would surely be against the public having guns?

Civilian operator never been in law enforcement. Never saw combat in the service!

[FightTheBan 1,147]

let's here your being shot stories, i'm intrigued! ?

 

 

Probably friendly fire on his way to a pro gun demo

FTB

[Aaron Proffitt 142]

I was involved in one 15 years ago.... it ain't nothing like the movies . And would've been over in the time it took me to type that .