SHOTGUNSNIPER 47 Posted April 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 I fully understand why the Americans like to be allowed to have guns, I understand why they like to carry them with them, what I don't understand is why the general public want to be able to carry concealed weapons?! Surely, from the point of view of someone who isn't planning on using it, it is a better idea to carry their gun on a hip holster; that way anyone who might consider pulling any shit when they're nearby won't... I personally would hate for the general public to be able to do that in my country, but I see the pros of carrying a gun. BUT to carry it concealed does NOT act as a deterrent against crime it acts as either a way to defend yourself when someone starts letting lead fly or a way to commit crime MUCH easier. Now, you rarely will ever have to defend yourself when in public, so point one is relatively obsolete, which only leaves crime as the only pro of concealed weapons. So why do the general public want it??? I consider the use of a firearm a last resort -- If a man is conducting himself properly and is well trained than a pistol is a last resort solution to most situations. On that note why "show your ace in the hole". Open carry makes a target for criminals who might try to take the openly carried pistol.... Concealed carry is what intimidates criminals - You never know who's got a pistol and that is why they think twice... Anti gun folks would start conflicts with people who are carrying weapons in the open.....Just to have the police disarm someone for the sake making a point...... Recently I had an individual (animal rights activist) claim I threatened beat her and that I had t a gun - When questioned she described a silver revolver - she was right and she was wrong - I was carrying concealed - a Colt 1911 .45acp longslide in Black... That saved me a trip to jail as it proved her a liar to the sheriff... Many of the Old West towns in yesteryear had it figured out - They allowed concealed carry and it was illegal to open carry - It was considered an unreasonable show of force - a sort of brandishment intimidation. Brandishment is still illegal here in Arizona.... It is threatening with a deadly weapon - you don't even have to point a gun or remove it from the holster to commit brandishment.... I think this answer's your question now I have one for you. When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you. othickman - your claims to understanding Americans are obviously based in misinformation and false hoods and it's obvious you know nothing about guns or Americans...... You have probably run your mouth allot about your ideas of Americans. But I doubt that you have ever had a conversation with an American.... And I seriously doubt that you have been to the USA... .SGS: I didn't expect any answer's to my question ........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RicW 67 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 (edited) A Tale of Two Cities. Seattle and Vancouver are geographically close, have similar population sizes, and similar demographics - average income, social structure and so on. Seattle has 10 times the murder rate of Vancouver and 10 times the gun crime rate. Seattle is in the USA and has very relaxed gun laws. Vancouver is in Canada and has tough handgun laws. I will refrain from pointing out the bleedin' obvious. Ric Edited April 20, 2010 by RicW Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Swampy 147 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 A Tale of Two Cities. Seattle and Vancouver are geographically close, have similar population sizes, and similar demographics - average income, social structure and so on. Seattle has 10 times the murder rate of Vancouver and 10 times the gun crime rate. Seattle is in the USA and has very relaxed gun laws. Vancouver is in Canada and has tough handgun laws. I will refrain from pointing out the bleedin' obvious. Ric Aw Ric. Now you've gone and sunk his boat with that little torpedo! glug glug glug ning Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lurchergrrl 1,441 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 A Tale of Two Cities. Seattle and Vancouver are geographically close, have similar population sizes, and similar demographics - average income, social structure and so on. Seattle has 10 times the murder rate of Vancouver and 10 times the gun crime rate. Seattle is in the USA and has very relaxed gun laws. Vancouver is in Canada and has tough handgun laws. I will refrain from pointing out the bleedin' obvious. Ric We Canadians are a nice bunch of folks Plus, the people in Vancouver as so busy skiing and hugging trees and growing shrooms in their basements, they haven't the time or the inclination to bother with hand guns. Unless they live in Surrey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nik_B 3,790 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 UK - Violent crime rate is equivalent to 2300 per 100,000 inhabitants. USA - Violent crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants was 469.2 Not everything is as simple as it sounds. American has more gun crime that is true but if the above can be believed the UK is more dangerous in different ways. Source 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 UK - Violent crime rate is equivalent to 2300 per 100,000 inhabitants. USA - Violent crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants was 469.2 Not everything is as simple as it sounds. American has more gun crime that is true but if the above can be believed the UK is more dangerous in different ways. Source Sounds about right. Dickheads over there think twice about assaulting someone just for the sake of it because they might end up dead. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUNSNIPER 47 Posted April 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 A Tale of Two Cities. Seattle and Vancouver are geographically close, have similar population sizes, and similar demographics - average income, social structure and so on. Seattle has 10 times the murder rate of Vancouver and 10 times the gun crime rate. Seattle is in the USA and has very relaxed gun laws. Vancouver is in Canada and has tough handgun laws. I will refrain from pointing out the bleedin' obvious. Ric I checked several sources online and the crime rate between these two cities is very similar. Vancouver rate is currently189/1000 and Seattle is at 150/1000 this is per Wicopedia - several other sources have similar or identical stat's.... What ever source I checked on line they indicated that the crime rates for Vancouver slightly higher....... Hey Ric where did you get your statistics - they are are wrong ..... 10 times higher what a bunch of moderate bullox..... I bet you go to moderate rally's and chant the same thing's over and over - am I right? I am not trying to tell you limey's that we have any answer's for your problem's if you bother to read my original post I was reporting some local happening that might be of interest to some at this site...... I did expect the kind of comparisons of USA vs UK that resulted from my post and I do enjoy the debate. But lets at least keep it accurate.... Still no answer to my question - When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you. SGS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RicW 67 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 A Tale of Two Cities. Seattle and Vancouver are geographically close, have similar population sizes, and similar demographics - average income, social structure and so on. Seattle has 10 times the murder rate of Vancouver and 10 times the gun crime rate. Seattle is in the USA and has very relaxed gun laws. Vancouver is in Canada and has tough handgun laws. I will refrain from pointing out the bleedin' obvious. Ric I check several sources online and the crime rate between these two cities is very similar. Vancouver rate is currently189/1000 and Seattle is at 150/1000 this is per Wicopedia - several other sources have similar or identical stat's.... Where ever source I checked on line indicated that the crime rates for Vancouver slightly higher....... Hey Ric where did you get your statistics - they are are wrong ..... 10 times higher what a bunch of moderate bullox..... I bet you go to moderate rally's and chant the same thing's over and over - am I right? I am not trying to tell you limey's that we have any answer's for your problem's if you bother to read my original post I was reporting some local happening that might be of interest to some at this site...... I did expect the kind of comparisons of USA vs UK that resulted from my post and I do enjoy the debate. But lets at least keep it accurate.... Still no answer to my question - When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you. SGS Fair comment. So when exactly is your US Governmint going to protect your citizens from maniacs like McVeigh? Ric Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Proffitt 142 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 (edited) A Tale of Two Cities. Seattle and Vancouver are geographically close, have similar population sizes, and similar demographics - average income, social structure and so on. Seattle has 10 times the murder rate of Vancouver and 10 times the gun crime rate. Seattle is in the USA and has very relaxed gun laws. Vancouver is in Canada and has tough handgun laws. I will refrain from pointing out the bleedin' obvious. Ric I check several sources online and the crime rate between these two cities is very similar. Vancouver rate is currently189/1000 and Seattle is at 150/1000 this is per Wicopedia - several other sources have similar or identical stat's.... Where ever source I checked on line indicated that the crime rates for Vancouver slightly higher....... Hey Ric where did you get your statistics - they are are wrong ..... 10 times higher what a bunch of moderate bullox..... I bet you go to moderate rally's and chant the same thing's over and over - am I right? I am not trying to tell you limey's that we have any answer's for your problem's if you bother to read my original post I was reporting some local happening that might be of interest to some at this site...... I did expect the kind of comparisons of USA vs UK that resulted from my post and I do enjoy the debate. But lets at least keep it accurate.... Still no answer to my question - When can you get past the idea that the UK government and all it's laws is creating a perfectly safe utopia for all to thrive in! No one is ever safe and any one or any government that claims that it can protect everyone is misinforming you. SGS Fair comment. So when exactly is your US Governmint going to protect your citizens from maniacs like McVeigh? Ric About the same time ammonium nitrate and diesel are outlawed....if anything it proves the dismal failure of disarmament. BTW, according to several US Supreme Court cases your question lacks merit . See, according to the US Supreme Court , the police have no duty to protect . http://www.mcrkba.org/w19.html Edited April 20, 2010 by Aaron Proffitt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Proffitt 142 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 (edited) http://www.independent.org/publications/policy_reports/detail.asp?id=8&type=summary Ric and other "disarm the citizen" proponets....are you guys aware the "Two Cities" study is over 22 years old ? Also consider Melbourne's latest crime stats , which I believe has gun laws similar to the UK's......their latest crime figures eclipse that of some major American cities. To include NYC... Edited April 20, 2010 by Aaron Proffitt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaron Proffitt 142 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 A Tale of Two Cities. Seattle and Vancouver are geographically close, have similar population sizes, and similar demographics - average income, social structure and so on. Seattle has 10 times the murder rate of Vancouver and 10 times the gun crime rate. Seattle is in the USA and has very relaxed gun laws. Vancouver is in Canada and has tough handgun laws. I will refrain from pointing out the bleedin' obvious. Ric To reiterate , this study was faulted from the beginning and is 22 years old. Secondly, crime across the US was skyrocketing about this time due to the crack cocaine explosion. Lastly, crime has by and large , dropped every year in the US since 1990 . However, it has been steadily increasing in most of Canada's major urban centers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUNSNIPER 47 Posted April 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 http://www.independe...=8&type=summary Ric and other "disarm the citizen" proponets....are you guys aware the "Two Cities" study is over 22 years old ? Also consider Melbourne's latest crime stats , which I believe has gun laws similar to the UK's......their latest crime figures eclipse that of some major American cities. To include NYC... That link is one of the best I have read..... Good Post! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fishslayer 10 Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 I was living in Vancouver in 1988 when that report of two cities was published. Having moved there from Dallas in 1986, it gave me quite the chuckle. I like having the right to defend myself and family with deadly force if the need arises and sleep well knowing that I am protected by law..."Castle Law" a bit of Old English jurisprudence we've embraced. Texas Castle Law It's not for everyone and I respect that. Cheers, Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SHOTGUNSNIPER 47 Posted April 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 I was living in Vancouver in 1988 when that report of two cities was published. Having moved there from Dallas in 1986, it gave me quite the chuckle. I like having the right to defend myself and family with deadly force if the need arises and sleep well knowing that I am protected by law..."Castle Law" a bit of Old English jurisprudence we've embraced. Texas Castle Law It's not for everyone and I respect that. Cheers, Mark Ning cha ching BOOYA - Another great link - Fantastic post Fishslayer! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timbo2 8 Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Wish it was like this over here.Also you had the right to protect your property and belongings with lethal force. In some ways the USA is bad, but in other ways they do have some great ideas and promote people to abide by the law. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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