Light load for 243Win

[coldweld 65]

a friend of mine is begging me for more.

[Mr_Logic 5]

<BR>

<BR>You talk about selecting your bullet and getting your SPS Tactical working well so fast. Means f**k-all I'm afraid. I had one of those in 223, <U><B>I made it masses of different handloads and it NEVER shot more than about 1 MOA</B>, </U>even with the ones it hated. <BR>That's the method I use and in the end,<U> <B>all my rifles shoot bug-hole groups </B></U>with their favourite loads. <BR><BR>Get your sorry arse over here and I'll show you.<BR>

<BR><BR><IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt= src="http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/clapper.gif"> <BR><BR>Okay, for what it's worth I'll try to be constructive in my reply (yes I was going to be sarcastic).<BR><BR>When I started out reloading, I did as most still do and that was to read books and try to work out what the best bullet would be for my rifle. IIRC it was a Ruger M77 in .223. I still have my range book here. My first attempt was with 21 grains of H322 and a 55 grain V-max. I had no idea about twist rates or powders, I was just reading and honestly thinking what I was reading was right. I couldn't even come close to the groups others claimed to achieve. So I tried other 55 grain bullets again, the groups were crap. Looking back, I had selected a good powder but not the best. I was using RG cases (from a good year) but not the best but most of all I would never be able to group the 55 grain V-max because it was the wrong bullet. I even tried a 60 grain V-max, which gave slightly better results down range, but this added to my confusion. Looking back, if I had been honest with myself I was well and truly lost. This was before the days of the Internet, heck I can remember the 'Jolly Rodger' being freely available on BBS sites. By chance I tried 50 grain V-max and BL©2, well bu**er me, the rifle shot "bug-hole" groups. I had no idea why but it did.<BR>As I progressed with different rifles, it started to annoy me and I did my level best to work out why certain bullets worked, why certain powders worked and so on. Belive me, I have done a LOT of research and testing.<BR>Now I have four steps to reloading and the results will almost always be better than MOA grouping from the start. No, I'll be more exact, always better than MOA as long as the rifle isn't shot out. <BR><BR>Now for the revelation. Will my reloads compete with another shooters "pet-load" NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!! it's a pet load and they will have done a lot of load development to squeeze every last reduction in group size. Do I believe you when you say "all my rifles shoot bug-hole" no, your talking bollocks again. Anyone who has been on the BR circuit will tell you that, but I am sure a lot of sheep will believe you. <BR><BR>What I do say is that if you do a little research, you will produce a very fine load straight away as long as the rifle and you are in good order. You could spend more time developing the load but that's not the point. The point is to produce a stable and accurate load with the minimal of reloading and shooting.<BR><BR>Of course, if you enjoy shooting and reloading, then perhaps you want to reload stacks of ammo and change your barrel every 100 rounds, thats not for me but do not underestimate the accuracy of Quick-load or the Greenhill formula, mocking either shows you to be very inexperienced.<BR><BR>Anyway, enough. I've a chicken to go in the smoker.<BR><BR>John<BR>

<BR>If you don't want to believe me, that's your problem.<BR><BR>I have at no stage mocked the software or formulae; they are an important part of a starting load. I mock YOU because you are incapable of looking beyond some maths and accepting that someone else does it differently and to good effect. Which is utter bollocks - I am quite prepared to accept your loading works fine for you, but I take issue with you not extending me the same courtesy.<BR><BR>My point with reloading is not to produce any load decent load with minimal testing, I take time to work up a really good load, because that's the way I want to do things. And in the end, it produces those groups you say I can't get. Is every single group like that? No, but then they never are in the real world. But if I do my bit and it's a nice calm day, the results speak volumes. Plenty of people have seen my rifles and my loads work, end of.<BR><BR>

[HUnter_zero 58]

a friend of mine is begging me for more.

 

 

To be honest I'm amazed that anyone on n open forum would admit to reloading and supplying ammunition to a friend. Isn't that illegal?

 

John

[HUnter_zero 58]

My point with reloading is not to produce any load decent load with minimal testing, I take time to work up a really good load

 

I am interested to hear how you define "a decent load". Whats the most accurate rifle you own? What modifications has been carried out the rifle? Bet it's a custom target rifle with plenty of mods

 

 

 

Bye for now....back up the range for me

 

Just got back from the range. Ran my "load" through the chronograph and compared the results with Quick loads predictions. Quick load was 78 fps out! Bloody marvelous is quick load. Obviously as you point out, theory needs to be supported with real time range work. So, my .308 load for my SPS tac, produces sub MOA grouping from the start. It's mild load mind, just 2483fps with a 165 grain bullet. I've not wasted 100's of round in load development, I do have space to develop the load and squeeze a reduction in group size but I'm shooting at deer and they don't care if I'm .001" closer to their heart Nope, 37 rounds down the barrel from new and a load is in place, the rifle is good to go and I'm doing what you couldn't and that's to make a Remington SPS tactical shoot straight, whats wrong with that!

 

John

Edited June 27, 2010 by HUnter_zero

[Mr_Logic 5]

You're doing what I couldn't and making a Remington SPS Tactical shoot straight?!<BR><BR>Mine shot .2-.5 MOA with 69gr Lapua Scenar and a reasonably stiff load of AA2230. I'd say that was shooting straight. Oh, and while we're there, that was the very first load I ever tried. But since I had 2 x 223s, I played with other loads for other reasons.<BR><BR>My most accurate rifle is my CZ 527 American. It has had no modifications whatsoever, except I adjusted the trigger so it's very nice. It has a plastic stock which is utterly awful, and cost £400. It should be awful, but given a 50gr V-max it will put 5 rounds regularly into .3 MOA, and I've seen it do better. It shouldn't be that accurate, but it is. Its balance is awful and thus annoying to carry, but it really does shoot straight.<BR><BR>My CZ 527 .22 Hornet is similar. 5 rounds and < .5 MOA almost all the time. I've seen it put 4 into half an inch at 225 yards, so it's a nice rifle also. That has had the barrel cut and recrowned, and I set that trigger up also, but again, that's it. <BR><BR>Oh, and reloading for others is absolutely fine, what is not is to make it my trade or business. I'm not charging the guy as he's a mate, and I don't make many for him. So that doesn't apply to me!

Edited June 27, 2010 by Mr_Logic

[HUnter_zero 58]

You're doing what I couldn't and making a Remington SPS Tactical shoot straight. Mine shot .2-.5 MOA with 69gr Lapua Scenar

My most accurate rifle is my CZ 527 American it will put 5 rounds regularly into .3 MOA, My CZ 527 .22 Hornet is similar. 5 rounds .5 MOA almost all the time. reloading for others is absolutely fine

 

 

Mr_Logic, I'm confused.

You said and I quote " You talk about selecting your bullet and getting your SPS Tactical working well so fast. Means f**k-all I'm afraid. I had one of those in 223, I made it masses of different handloads and it NEVER shot more than about 1 MOA, even with the ones it hated.

 

But now your saying : Mine shot .2-.5 MOA with 69gr Lapua Scenar.

 

 

Are you sure you know how to measure group sizes? Especially as you now say that your most accurate rifle will produce .3MOA.

 

 

Have I miss read your posts?

 

 

I also think you have missed your calling, top ranking BR shooters will achieve around 0.15" groups at 100 yards with some very fine custom made rifles, with some very fine barrels. Yet your almost managing to do that on a regular bases with a CZ & a 700 more or less factory standard.

 

I take my hate off to you sir! Your one hell of a shot. It's a shame you don't go fishing too, I bet you would do well at that.

 

John

[Mr_Logic 5]

My SPS tactical never shot a load worse than about 1 MOA. It shot many loads considerably better than that. Not sure why that is so hard to comprehend.

 

I don't shoot .1MOA groups very often at all. My CZ shoots .3MOA with the right load on the right day when I do my bit. It's not a fluke as it's been done several times, but it's not every group, either. The worst ones are about .5 MOA. My CZ is not a factory rifle that occurs all the time, I freely admit that, but it is true, and it is a very good rifle!

[coldweld 65]

Hey John

 

I get the impresion that you think something smells fishy ! While it is not against the law to reload for another, the gift of ammo MUST be shown in both parties FAC's.

 

 

Whats brown and sloppy and looks like cow S*** ?

[HUnter_zero 58]

My SPS tactical never shot a load worse than about 1 MOA.

 

I don't shoot .1MOA groups very often at all. My CZ shoots .3MOA with the right load on the right day when I do my bit.

 

 

I see, my mistake, you were actually saying that the SPS tac is a very accurate rifle, I have to agree.

 

.1" groups with a CZ

 

Your wasted on here, no really you are.

 

John

[HUnter_zero 58]

I get the impresion that you think something smells fishy !

While it is not against the law to reload for another, the gift of ammo MUST be shown in both parties FAC's.

 

 

John

[Mr_Logic 5]

Can you not read? I said .3 MOA! That's not 0.1MOA, which is very different.

 

If you don't believe me, come over to Reading and I'll show you.

 

Ammunition transfer is only shown on the recipient's FAC, with the originating FAC used as authority to own. If my mate sticks around while I make his ammo, no transfer is required as he's bought all his components!

[HUnter_zero 58]

Can you not read? I said .3 MOA! That's not 0.1MOA, which is very different.

If you don't believe me, come over to Reading and I'll show you.

"I don't shoot .1MOA groups very often."

 

I have to be honest and say in all my years of shooting firearms/airguns and shotguns I have never shot a .1MOA group but one of the reasons for this is that I use standard factory rifle barrels. MY rifles will all have had trigger jobs, may be re-crowning work and likely to be action or pillar bedded. Oh, with the exception of a Ruger M77, where I replaced the trigger, stock and barrel.

Hey, my range is open 24/7 & I can arrange a clay shoot 24/7. If you feel the need your always welcome to visit these green welsh hills. Problem I have is that I lost my spongers pass (I mean TAG) so I'd have to pay that infernal french tw@ money to get back to my homeland. It's not so bad if you have to pay to visit, bit like going to the Zoo

 

John

Edited June 28, 2010 by HUnter_zero

[Deker 3,478]

a friend of mine is begging me for more.

 

 

To be honest I'm amazed that anyone on n open forum would admit to reloading and supplying ammunition to a friend. Isn't that illegal?

 

John

 

Making suggestions as to legality needs legal backing...ACT and section would be appreciated!

Edited June 28, 2010 by Deker

[coldweld 65]

a friend of mine is begging me for more.

 

 

To be honest I'm amazed that anyone on n open forum would admit to reloading and supplying ammunition to a friend. Isn't that illegal?

 

John

 

Making suggestions as to legality needs legal backing...ACT and section would be appreciated!

 

Here he is BEGGING for more :friends: :11:

[TopDown 0]

You gonna put your money where your mouth is then? Accusing someone without backing it up is pretty low.