DEFRA lead ban?

[Tiddler66 3]

Does any one else here think that DEFRA are likely to propose a ban on LEAD....If they do, I bet you BASC will back them and that will be the end of that.....So all old shotguns will become redundant overnight.........or you pay £1 a shot for Bismuth or Tin......all of this is happening because some wild fowlers are still using lead over wetlands......and when it happens it will probably include a lead ban on clay shooting and on Air-rifle shooting too.....And its already happened in Holland.......so its less ammo for us and more ammo for the Antis

[sage 0]

Does any one else here think that DEFRA are likely to propose a ban on LEAD....If they do, I bet you BASC will back them and that will be the end of that.....So all old shotguns will become redundant overnight.........or you pay £1 a shot for Bismuth or Tin......all of this is happening because some wild fowlers are still using lead over wetlands......and when it happens it will probably include a lead ban on clay shooting and on Air-rifle shooting too.....And its already happened in Holland.......so its less ammo for us and more ammo for the Antis

Our only hope is a lot of the well paid MP's have nice English guns and wont wont to trade them in for a standard production gun that will shoot steel tin ect slim hope but it will happen in the long run. It sadens me and in a way I am pleased I am 56 and have been privey to the good years. but wont help me in my trade. Sage Gunsmith. Very sorry for the young and keen shooters of today.

[HUnter_zero 58]

I bet you BASC will back them

 

The BASC backed a lead ban on Wildfowling and wetland shooting which was based on no real scientific evidence to support claims that wading birds were picking up lead shot.

The BASC are also backing a lead ban on stalking bullets, again with no real evidence to support the ban.

 

Why would it come as a surprise if the BASC backed a total lead ban

 

John

[slingshot 0]

The problem is the europe has re classified lead in a more toxic band. So will a ban come into force most like, when, I don't know. Will spineless BASC stand up for the shooting people or will they just look at there own jobs and make a few noises like always.

Does any one else here think that DEFRA are likely to propose a ban on LEAD....If they do, I bet you BASC will back them and that will be the end of that.....So all old shotguns will become redundant overnight.........or you pay £1 a shot for Bismuth or Tin......all of this is happening because some wild fowlers are still using lead over wetlands......and when it happens it will probably include a lead ban on clay shooting and on Air-rifle shooting too.....And its already happened in Holland.......so its less ammo for us and more ammo for the Antis

[Deker 3,478]

Does any one else here think that DEFRA are likely to propose a ban on LEAD....If they do, I bet you BASC will back them and that will be the end of that.....So all old shotguns will become redundant overnight.........or you pay £1 a shot for Bismuth or Tin......all of this is happening because some wild fowlers are still using lead over wetlands......and when it happens it will probably include a lead ban on clay shooting and on Air-rifle shooting too.....And its already happened in Holland.......so its less ammo for us and more ammo for the Antis

Our only hope is a lot of the well paid MP's have nice English guns and wont wont to trade them in for a standard production gun that will shoot steel tin ect slim hope but it will happen in the long run. It sadens me and in a way I am pleased I am 56 and have been privey to the good years. but wont help me in my trade. Sage Gunsmith. Very sorry for the young and keen shooters of today.

 

Well, we are a similar age, and I can recall some of the good times as well, pistols still grate with me...anyway MP's and their Old English guns unfortunately I suspect they will vote for the ban when it comes, not realising the implications for their own shotguns!!Dumb or what??

[danw 1,748]

It will be interesting to hear from the CPSA,clay shooting will be damed expensive with non toxic

[Tiddler66 3]

If whilst out rough shooting and a duck gets up off a splash, I have to remove my lead ammo and replace it with bismuth before taking the shot.....Why? The Irish model is much better where if shooting over wetlands you must use non-toxic....ie defined by location, not by quarry........RSPB and Wetlands trust claim people are breaking the law with lead.......possibly because its a crap law ....like hunting with dogs, pistol ban, coastal access, cage ban....all are crap laws that only hurt law abiding people, achieve little....and turn ordanary people into criminals......BASC don't you just love them.......

[pest hunter 151 15]

And on top of all that im sure there are not many accurate pellets that are not lead ,and for airguns that have choke it will damage them

[flytie 1]

I bet you BASC will back them

 

The BASC backed a lead ban on Wildfowling and wetland shooting which was based on no real scientific evidence to support claims that wading birds were picking up lead shot.

The BASC are also backing a lead ban on stalking bullets, again with no real evidence to support the ban.

 

Why would it come as a surprise if the BASC backed a total lead ban

 

John

John, When the lead ban was proposed I was fairly vocal both on a personal and a political level. I still have the studies that were used in evidence to support the ban. There are three of them all concerning swans. Dr John Harradine of the BASC sent them to me. He was exceptionally helpful. He did not give me a copy of "Lead In An Intertidal Ecosystem (Lindisfarne)" by Palmer & Evans 1991. Which is well worth a read, because it shows very little lead impact on ducks feeding in the tidal mudflats on some of the highest concentrations of suspended lead shot in the country in the areas around lindisfarne.

 

But please don't say there was no evidence that lead shot was impacting waders, because there is; Evans & Moon 1981, Mudge 1983, Spray & Milne 1988 to name but a few. You are just peddling a common myth. The best case that could be made for continued usage of lead was a welfare one, cleanest kills etc. When it was proven that there were viable alternatives being used elswhere in the world there was little BASC could do to defend it. Given the choices the BASC were given by the Government, a partial ban was the best we could hope for, and they delivered it.

 

Trying to defend the use of lead, in anything, is increasingly hard when there are viable alternatives. Lead is toxic and poisonous and governments do not like it. You may not agree with all the studies done, and not think that they are fair and impartial, but the x-ray tests showing tiny slivers of lead in the wound channels of shot deer are enough to make any sane person question the need to use lead when there are alternatives available.

 

I get a little sick of the BASC bashing when people have not bothered to check their facts. It is not a perfect organisation, but it is our best hope of influencing Government policy to minimise it's detrimental impact on shooting.

 

Yours hoping for a more reasoned debate, ft.

Edited April 5, 2010 by flytie

[HUnter_zero 58]

John, When the lead ban was proposed I was fairly vocal both on a personal and a political level.But please don't say there was no evidence that lead shot was impacting waders / the x-ray tests showing tiny slivers of lead in the wound channels of shot deer are enough to make any sane person question the need to use lead when there are alternatives available.

 

sick of the BASC bashing

Yours hoping for a more reasoned debate, ft.

 

 

I'll make my position clear right from the start IMHO the BASC are a bunch of *ank*s. How many EEC countries have a wetlands lead shot ban? The BASC backed the UK wide ban 100%. The BASC have publicly opposed a national pigeon shoot, organised by the NGO, why is that? More and more of their members money is being wasted by the year. Where were the BASC during the pistol ban? Remember the countryside march, how long did it take for the BASC to get involved? As for lead in the bullet wound channels, do you really eat meat from these areas? It amazes me why the super markets would risk selling shot game

The list goes on and on, the latest crock of sh!te comes int eh form of a leaflet titled " The Polices officers guide to shooters ", what a bloody joke.

Long gone are the days of paying my subs to them, the magazines are rubbish, the service is poor and the insurance package outrageous. IMHO it's about time they got back to basics and stop trying to become something that the government will never take seriously. In my humble opinion of course.

 

John

[flytie 1]

John, you are a myth peddlar of the first water, seemingly unworried by facts. I cannot take you seriously when you utter such unfounded tosh.

 

ft

[Tiddler66 3]

Why was our current partial lead shot ban based on quarry and not on location? Because I believe that a ban based on location makes more sense......and surely we have a right to expect BASC to have fought the case for the better solution. I do not understand?

[HEDS 0]

The time will come when we will have to stop using lead - who you vote for and what the BASC do wont make any difference.

[flytie 1]

Why was our current partial lead shot ban based on quarry and not on location? Because I believe that a ban based on location makes more sense......and surely we have a right to expect BASC to have fought the case for the better solution. I do not understand?

Tiddler, I totally agree, it would have made far more sense for the lead shot ban to be location based. Unfortunately BASC were faced with a Government who had a total lead ban as their stated agena and they had the science to support them. They fought hard on our behalf, but they are not an organisation with any statutory rights, they can only lobby and advise. They cannot make the Government listen, or make them produce sensible laws. No more than any other single interest group can. That is up to us, the electorate, to pressure our MP's into sensible law making where it impacts on our interests.

 

BASC have a link to standing and prospective MP's web sites and you can fill in your details and find out what your prospective candidates stand for! I actually found out what my prospective MP's think of our sport, giving me an informed choice on who to vote for at the coming election. I liked that.

 

If anyone here thinks they can personally infuence our Government to change their stated policies they are sadly deluded. It is organisations that have the largest membership and funds who bring the most pressure to bear.

 

If you think our representitive organisations are doing a bad job, tell them! Put yourself up for election to the BDS, BASC, CA or NGO and try and change things. If you take the huff, resign then rant and rave over the unfairness and stupidity of it all you achieve nothing and can influence no one.

 

ft

[HUnter_zero 58]

John, you are a myth peddlar of the first water, seemingly unworried by facts. I cannot take you seriously when you utter such unfounded tosh.

 

ft

 

You really are stuck up yourself. Fact is you can not defend the actions of the lead ban, that's the FACT.

 

Was there not a consultation period, which for some of the part was dependant on evidence from the BASC? Is it not a FACT that there was so much more evidence that could have been put forward but was held back, why was that?

 

FOR EXAMPLE: How many geese migrate from green land? How many geese have lead contamination from green land that come to our shores?

FACT: What is the point in a lead ban for the UK, if the birds are already contaminated with lead?

 

FACT: A Green-lander eating 30 LEAD SHOT KILLED DUCKS A MONTH HAD A MEAN BLOOD LEAD LEVEL OF 8.2ug/dl. FACT US safe blood level limit 10ug/dl.

 

FACT: The BASC will go along with more or less anything that makes them look like a grown up organisation, regardless of the detrimental cost to shooting sports in the UK.

 

FACT: We have been eating lead shot meat for more years that the BASC could ever claim to remember. FACT we are all here because of this lead shot meat. FACT I hate being wrapped in cotton wool and actually enjoy eating meat shot with lead shot & lead bullets.

 

John