UNDERSTANDING THE SALUKI

[arcticgun 4,548]

Rio, regarding the 'playing devil's advocate' post, is it your opinion that our past failures to understand this breed coupled with irresponsible breeding for money etc has produced hounds that display 'certain undesirable traits'? in short that we have brought a type of inbred 'neourosis' to our uk bred saluki via lack of undertanding of the breed and poor outdated training methods more suited to westernised type breeds?, obviously the small genepool and interbreeding would also amplify these defects?

 

Im more than aware that both yourself and a few others on this thread have taken the time to travel to the coo lands to see their stock first hand, and wonder if the 'neourosis' 'poor tractability' etc is evident in coo stock, as i said in previous post I blame poor understanding of the breed in general for some of what we see in uk bred saluki, Im thinking that you have not found the above to be true on your travels.

 

Im also interested in what your self and other importers feel about how your new stock will take to working in the uk and our terrain and quarry? obviously it's very hard to say as they are only pups, but are you guys confident? I assume that you are do you think that there will be milage in putting them to exsisting uk lines or would you prefer to import more in the future to sort of create new more sound lines?

 

Regarding all the regional variations such as sloughi.azawakh tazi and the others I am not aware of as yet, could in your opinion our own coursing x's which are usually saturated to death with saluki blood, be counted as a regional variation of saluki as the aforementioned are often reffered to?

 

Love or loath saluki as you like, but its unarguable that they have moved coursing forward since their introduction into the bloodlines, leaving deerhound/greyhound x's in the past, I look back at older lurcher books when a certain writer mentions about 'if lads say their dogs can take 3/3 they are lying' and laugh, the recent article about the Spewers Cup in JD's new book states the comp was ofen won by one or two catches, obviosly there was not as much saluki in the coursing game then, how times have changed, plenty of lads now have dogs that out perform the champs of a couple of decades ago, thaks to the infusion of saluki blood, and that was from a period that appears to have produced 'poor quality' saluki, imagine if the current level of understanding of this breed was evident back then maybe a pure would have won the Forley Cup, I await the incoming barrage from the coursing crew but I am fairly sold on the fact that out Merlin and Eve types are just an extension of saluki whic as some point out is just another lurcher from another land

Edited April 5, 2010 by arcticgun

[bird 10,013]

This might seem lazy and i will probaly get a fair amount of stick for saying it but Im happy with good solid recall, I want and need a hunter, that can think and operate independantly or in conjunction with my other dogs, it also has to be sound running a wide variety of terrain.

 

Sit Stay lay down, moonwalk etc are not of any use to me in the field, nor do they appear to be of any consequnce to the saluki either lol, they do however sit and occaisionaly stay to command and i dare say now the bond is formed and they are maturing I could teach them to a decent satndard, unfortunately myself and the dogs prefer to go out hunting instead.

 

It boils my piss when people say saluki are thick and hard to train cos they don't respond to a quick slap etc, to be honest how can a dog be considered clever because it learns right from wrong via a slap or being yelled at? is it clever to stay around people who slap you? me personaly think it shows more nouse putting a few miles between yourself and the person who belted you.

 

What needs to be considered carefully is that dogs are not humans, the commands we seek to teach them simply mean nothing to the dog concerned they only understand the 'Pack', when we lose control all they see is a pack leader who is not strong enough to lead them, so they simply take over as pack nature dictates. Saluki being more 'primative' than other westernised breeds imho simply need less guidance than typicl breeds or crosses, saluki is born to hunt, course and catch quarry and has done so for centuries with great sucess, to the point it is still one of the most physically sound pure breeds ever. Let them get on with it after introducing recall, you might as well learn there ways cos they don't really need to learn much from you.

 

Work on forming a true bond with your saluki, and in time when he decides to submit to your steady firm leadership he will do anything you ask of him and more.

 

This is only my opinion, from what i have learned and there is so much more that I need and desire to learn, but it has worked for me, my days of looking into the distance as my saluki disappears, murder brewing in my mind followed by worry and eventually complete dispair are well and truly over, now i just simply enjoy working along with my saluki and other dogs, this way we are all happy and my blood pressure is spot on.

 

very good thread mate, i know 2 lads who work (collixgreyx salukixgreys) and both are great dogs. They have great pre-drive and are bidable dogs, not to bad at training. I have a 1x colliexgrey Bryn, who is great rabbit dog day+night.Most of my lurchers over 25 years, have been colliexgreys and bullxs lurchers. And the one thing , you said above is spot on regards training .Nice and steady firm+kind, because if it get's a bit heavy handed any lurcher will feck off (patience) is the key, and we all run out of it sometimes fact.Dont think the salukix is for me, but they are great dogs in the (right) hands.Might get a bullx pup this year, as with any pup firm+kind thats the crack.

[L8SPORTS 19]

THERE A ARABAIN LURCHER NO MORE NO LESS, AND LIKE OUR GREYHOUND THE SAME, THE scottish deerhound , but they are more functinal size wise ,etc and can still do a job so can some good greyhounds giving a chance ,never beenin love with abreed merrie ,just what does a job , i ve saw several coursing some you wouldnt love but some you would love as they run to kill, to me a saluk or any dog has to be performance in the feild , then good dogs other wise ,how do most saluk owners or say the beduion type peole rate them hunting performance etc first or how do the rate them as dogs

 

Beleave me if a Arab lets a dog be part of the family it must be worthy !

Edited April 5, 2010 by L8SPORTS

[riohog 5,823]

bloody hell richard ..answer to first paragraph ..yes,

 

2nd i know and have seen coo sals mybe 2 gen that are that nervious you cant get near them/could be a combination of breeding /and /or upbringing

3rd

 

pray drive instinct with be there know doubt running conditions make know difference ''how good ?cant answer that yetgenerally the western coursing stock kizzy ect has proven to be very fast !! we will see !!

 

4th i dont count azewakh and sloughi as a regional variation of the saluki ....they are totally different breeds !!.....are our lines a regional variation ,,, may be .mybe they have had some help !!/or additions in there ped ..who knows

but after severall thousand years ..what is pure ? think one would be short sighted not to think that other breeds of dog havnt entered the saluki gene pool in general ..coulour influance size ect

Edited April 5, 2010 by riohog

[riohog 5,823]

but I am fairly sold on the fact that out Merlin and Eve types are just an extension of saluki whic as some point out is just another lurcher from another land

 

sorry richard ,merlin and eve an extension of saluki!!! dont know where you got that thinking!!!!

 

or did i misread it

[riohog 5,823]

is this a saluki ?

[whin 463]

its some times intresting reading history but for me its what fills the bag as qauick as you can some nites ,and with no hassle and not spending overly long amounts of time to teach simple commands like in here, or [bANNED TEXT] back to were i strted when out on adark nite ,i never look back much nowadays in history yoused to ,as time moves on maybe not for the better , i believe if the saluk in itsnpure form was a good dog well we would have them and i mean guys who run them hard at times at nite for game , belive in the cross form they exel im maybe wrong ,my unlce saw beduions mybpal was in iraq , saw beduions but never saw many great hunting dogs or game to test them ,ive yet to meet a good nite hunter etc that has a pure pair of salukis , to catch the dinner , and run side by side to some of the dogs ive saw and had , all the facy tazis kurds ,arabain nites doesnt hold it for me ,as i says i do like them but until i see them do what i expect of a good nite dog, then ,well write all these things out of books about history etc to me the give feet in some lines , sometimes running brain ,wind to, but in the big picture the pure is second to the crossas a dog ,maybe not if guys simliar to me have them i dont no the answer but i believe there not what youse seem to [bANNED TEXT] about or belive what they are ,i do like saluks but dont no in apure form if they can hold acandle to a good saluk lurcher be good if they could

[Guest AngelicAcid]

Saluki X?(grey, or Borzoi?)

[riohog 5,823]

its some times intresting reading history but for me its what fills the bag as qauick as you can some nites ,and with no hassle and not spending overly long amounts of time to teach simple commands like in here, or [bANNED TEXT] back to were i strted when out on adark nite ,i never look back much nowadays in history yoused to ,as time moves on maybe not for the better , i believe if the saluk in itsnpure form was a good dog well we would have them and i mean guys who run them hard at times at nite for game , belive in the cross form they exel im maybe wrong ,my unlce saw beduions mybpal was in iraq , saw beduions but never saw many great hunting dogs or game to test them ,ive yet to meet a good nite hunter etc that has a pure pair of salukis , to catch the dinner , and run side by side to some of the dogs ive saw and had , all the facy tazis kurds ,arabain nites doesnt hold it for me ,as i says i do like them but until i see them do what i expect of a good nite dog, then ,well write all these things out of books about history etc to me the give feet in some lines , sometimes running brain ,wind to, but in the big picture the pure is second to the crossas a dog ,maybe not if guys simliar to me have them i dont no the answer but i believe there not what youse seem to [bANNED TEXT] about or belive what they are ,i do like saluks but dont no in apure form if they can hold acandle to a good saluk lurcher be good if they could

cant understand a word of that whin !! what language is it ..jibberish ..lol

[whin 463]

basicaly all the history that surround s salukis is fun but in the hard lite of day and ive hunted in most places with good dog men never see many saluks i would take home as an allround nite time dog etc the saluk is to me one part of the good dog i look for ,arabain nites, beduoins, have maybe not saw our good dogs here , as much as we have saw theres here ,to me the saluki lurcher is a good dog but yet to see pures as consistent , even in the states over the years you only here or see the odd one thats good ,maybe we should breed the british saluki , as an allround hunting dog or we have already ,but with history from here ,like the settlers did when they left europe to the usa ,coyote hounds part scottish deerhound etc we should do the same ,lets not forget we have more game than alot of arab countrys ,there outcrossing saluks now to improve them , and saying there pure ,after 4 generaitions , they shuld call them british saluks now ,for me and lots of others the saluk and i do like them are not the mystuieq dogs of the araibain nites ,there show dogs that have the odd ays coursing yet to see a good saluk to match a good british bred saluki lurcher in the allround stakes of providing game for the table hopefully i will shortly

[whin 463]

rio hog what does a brindle saluk with some silly twat showing it do for the working saluk ,mate apart form couloring, of the grew,ri hog looking forward to seeinhg afew run this season coming be intresting to see what the pures offer a hunting man to the crosses in the uk

[riohog 5,823]

basicaly all the history that surround s salukis is fun but in the hard lite of day and ive hunted in most places with good dog men never see many saluks i would take home as an allround nite time dog etc the saluk is to me one part of the good dog i look for ,arabain nites, beduoins, have maybe not saw our good dogs here , as much as we have saw theres here ,to me the saluki lurcher is a good dog but yet to see pures as consistent , even in the states over the years you only here or see the odd one thats good ,maybe we should breed the british saluki , as an allround hunting dog or we have already ,but with history from here ,like the settlers did when they left europe to the usa ,coyote hounds part scottish deerhound etc we should do the same ,lets not forget we have more game than alot of arab countrys ,there outcrossing saluks now to improve them , and saying there pure ,after 4 generaitions , they shuld call them british saluks now ,for me and lots of others the saluk and i do like them are not the mystuieq dogs of the araibain nites ,there show dogs that have the odd ays coursing yet to see a good saluk to match a good british bred saluki lurcher in the allround stakes of providing game for the table hopefully i will shortly

yeah ok ill go along with that esspecially the bit about the 4 gen back to pure .yes mate it is nonsence ,and yes you may well be right about a saluki lurcher being better suited in the u/k bur whin ..consider this ...if you want to produce good lurchers you need good stock yeah,so you would use the best saluki available at th time to put into the cross..on a personal note i have never said pure salukis were better ...but they suit me im not trying to convince anyone different ,im just giving an oppinion ..

[riohog 5,823]

rio hog what does a brindle saluk with some silly twat showing it do for the working saluk ,mate apart form couloring, of the grew,ri hog looking forward to seeinhg afew run this season coming be intresting to see what the pures offer a hunting man to the crosses in the uk

 

 

i didnt ask for a stupid reply off you whin ..i said ..is this a saluki...

[whin 463]

what does it for me is all these imported breeds of saluks at moment were we have our own saluk here the saluki lurcher, better outcrossing to treid and tested stuff here than traveling paying big money for dogs that are maybe not as good as what we want, just to say IMPORTED SALUKI to me it sounds like a bit snobbery at times , as who has tested the imports parents etc over generaitions not guys like me for sure ,be some show guy with the odd coursing day or lure coursing day , ive saw the average saluki owner over in the states and ive see the odd keen hunter miles apart at times , just like your lurcher show guy and guys who hunt for to eat seell game whatever a big diffrence, i think that is the problem with saluks the ownership is not intended with hunting is the main goal , i rant on but can only say what ive seen at times

[riohog 5,823]

what does it for me is all these imported breeds of saluks at moment were we have our own saluk here the saluki lurcher, better outcrossing to treid and tested stuff here than traveling paying big money for dogs that are maybe not as good as what we want, just to say IMPORTED SALUKI to me it sounds like a bit snobbery at times , as who has tested the imports parents etc over generaitions not guys like me for sure ,be some show guy with the odd coursing day or lure coursing day , ive saw the average saluki owner over in the states and ive see the odd keen hunter miles apart at times , just like your lurcher show guy and guys who hunt for to eat seell game whatever a big diffrence, i think that is the problem with saluks the ownership is not intended with hunting is the main goal , i rant on but can only say what ive seen at times

 

 

whin ,the reason people inport any livestock .is in there belief it will hopefully add something ..good to there gene pool and it can be a gamble ...but if you dont try youll never know ..life is about risk ..and minimise the risk by aquiring what you see as the best opption available ..not the same for everyone ..look faward whin ..not back