Lurcher Judges

[inan 841]

i have done quite a bit of judging over the last 30 odd years and as innan said ive never been able to tell a dogs working proess from looking at it or examining it .and something else in all those years i must have examined thousands of lurchers and all owners say their dog works whether this is true or not is not for me to decide because as the judge for the day all my job is is to pick the best dog in my opinion and i quote my opinion because at the end of the day thats all it is one persons opinion on the day. what i will say is all that glitters is not gold because what looks a stunner from outside the ring is not always what it seems once you have run your hands over it and /or examined it more closely things like over/undershot dirty teeth flat feet turned in elbows weak wrists fleas and other faults are not obvious when looking at the dogs from outside the ring . and remember judges give their time freely with only their fuel as payement and if its a club show or charity do dont even take their fuel most of the time . the last show i judged travelled about 3 hours each way and was way out of pocket but still enjoyed the day and thats what shows are supposed to be for a day out you meet old and new freinds and catch up and enjoy yourself. and so what if some show regiulars take it seriously and pamper their lurchers at least their well looked after which is the main thing .

 

Boyo.

I have had the pleasure of judging with you twice now ,and what you say is entirely true ,picking out a dog from the "civilian side " , of the ropes, and actually being in the ring , putting your hands over it ,and closely watching it move, are two totally different things.

Hands on examination is vital to assess conformation and condition.

There is no wealth to be made from judging ,usually you make one friend , the owner of the dog you picked as your champion, and sometimes ,a few enemies ,the owners of those you did not .

[boyo 1,398]

innan above post is so true and the number of times when outside the ring ive heard that dog isnt worked .well sorry but on the day your never going to know and it doesnt matter whether it does or doesnt as chalkwarren said its a beauty parade of dogs and your picking which you think are the best 3 dogs on conformation looks and condition on the day . and as you know mate sometimes thats hard enough job on its own .

[huntuk 0]

Is the NLRC still going and the obedience/field trial still on good test for lurchers

[skycat 6,173]

Years ago the club for which I was secretary tried to put on a 'working' competition. OK, obviously not a working in the field comp,but there was a retrieving test, a jumping test, a walk round the ring off the lead thingy as well as the beauty show part of it: not many entered: probably because most people's dogs wouldn't have walked to heel round the ring LOL There was not enough interest in the comp to warrant doing it again: IMO, those who really work their dogs to a high standard as opposed to point and slip wouldn't be likely to enter a beauty show. I know there's exceptions but I think that for the most part what I have said is true.

[inan 841]

Years ago the club for which I was secretary tried to put on a 'working' competition. OK, obviously not a working in the field comp,but there was a retrieving test, a jumping test, a walk round the ring off the lead thingy as well as the beauty show part of it: not many entered: probably because most people's dogs wouldn't have walked to heel round the ring LOL There was not enough interest in the comp to warrant doing it again: IMO, those who really work their dogs to a high standard as opposed to point and slip wouldn't be likely to enter a beauty show. I know there's exceptions but I think that for the most part what I have said is true.

It's allways puzzled me why those owners and their dogs who compete in obedience and working trials , get relatively few kudos, whereas a dog that basically looks good ,and is in fine condition,is lauded, for walking round a ring ,doing a triangle to assess movement ,and standing reasonably still while being handled.

[huntuk 0]

It's allways puzzled me why those owners and their dogs who compete in obedience and working trials , get relatively few kudos, whereas a dog that basically looks good ,and is in fine condition,is lauded, for walking round a ring ,doing a triangle to assess movement ,and standing reasonably still while being handled.

 

Thats what got me when i used to judge lurcher show you never see the 1/2 cross working dogs lined up, my old collie/greys and wheaton/grey whould do good in a show, i did once put my 1/2 collie (non hancock)in for a laugh the judge said whats that anygood for ??, myself and the dog went onto win the obedience and chatsworth and the field trails at scotland in 1992,

[Countryside Lass 0]

Totally sympathise on this.

 

I am organising the WNFSC terrier, lurcher and family dog show again this year and getting judges is difficult enough and the job they have to do on the day is even harder. All judges will have a particular type of dog they naturally prefer - whether it be terriers or lurchers. It's only when they get their hands on them in the ring that they can look for the conformation faults like under/over shot jaws, flat/broken toes, turned out hocks and elbows, etc. - but none of these will ever give you an inkling as to how good or bad the dog performs in the field or underground. Most terriers will have visible battle scars but that doesn't necessarily mean they're good workers, it just means they've been bitten by something.

 

All you can ask of a judge is that they judge each dog fairly. My own preference is for judges from out of the area of the show and I want my judges to look at what's on the end of the lead, not who's holding it. John Clarke and Darren Gallagher did a fantastic job last year and we've just about confirmed the 2 judges for this year - again, both will be coming from outside of Norfolk. The one thing as an organiser you must do is stand by the judges' decision - it is final. If the show is a qualifying round for a championship (as our show is), then there is extra pressure on the judges to 'get it right'.

 

There will always be those that think that showing is a game and a waste of money and proves nothing about how good your dog is, but there are a hell of a lot of people who DO enjoy doing it - so don't knock them. Not every one has got a 'wonder worker' that pulls hares over within seconds or bolts foxes just by looking at them - a lot of the showing fraternity support the numerous countrysports organisations just as much as the people that go out into the field and do the actual job - and they get just as much of a buzz from winning a red rosette as many others get from a successful end to a hunt. Our show is as much about having a good day out as it is about winning rosettes - they'll always be moaners but providing you remember that you can't please everyone, you'll soon stop worrying about trying!!.

[inan 841]

Totally sympathise on this.

 

I am organising the WNFSC terrier, lurcher and family dog show again this year and getting judges is difficult enough and the job they have to do on the day is even harder. All judges will have a particular type of dog they naturally prefer - whether it be terriers or lurchers. It's only when they get their hands on them in the ring that they can look for the conformation faults like under/over shot jaws, flat/broken toes, turned out hocks and elbows, etc. - but none of these will ever give you an inkling as to how good or bad the dog performs in the field or underground. Most terriers will have visible battle scars but that doesn't necessarily mean they're good workers, it just means they've been bitten by something.

 

All you can ask of a judge is that they judge each dog fairly. My own preference is for judges from out of the area of the show and I want my judges to look at what's on the end of the lead, not who's holding it. John Clarke and Darren Gallagher did a fantastic job last year and we've just about confirmed the 2 judges for this year - again, both will be coming from outside of Norfolk. The one thing as an organiser you must do is stand by the judges' decision - it is final. If the show is a qualifying round for a championship (as our show is), then there is extra pressure on the judges to 'get it right'.

 

There will always be those that think that showing is a game and a waste of money and proves nothing about how good your dog is, but there are a hell of a lot of people who DO enjoy doing it - so don't knock them. Not every one has got a 'wonder worker' that pulls hares over within seconds or bolts foxes just by looking at them - a lot of the showing fraternity support the numerous countrysports organisations just as much as the people that go out into the field and do the actual job - and they get just as much of a buzz from winning a red rosette as many others get from a successful end to a hunt. Our show is as much about having a good day out as it is about winning rosettes - they'll always be moaners but providing you remember that you can't please everyone, you'll soon stop worrying about trying!!.

A day out at a country fair should be fun ,whether you are showing, swapping lies in the beer tent with old friends, whatever,it can also be a valuable PR as hopefully the best side of field sports is presented to the uncommitted public.The worst thing is for folk to take showing too seriously ,at the end of the day it is only one person's opinion.Many people drive considerable distances to compete at shows , and they are entitled to expect a competent judge to give their dog a proper hands on going over, but if, on the day, they are not among the rosettes well ,life goes on.I do think obtaining judges from out of the area is a good idea though.

["Earth!" 503]

innan above post is so true and the number of times when outside the ring ive heard that dog isnt worked .well sorry but on the day your never going to know and it doesnt matter whether it does or doesnt as chalkwarren said its a beauty parade of dogs and your picking which you think are the best 3 dogs on conformation looks and condition on the day . and as you know mate sometimes thats hard enough job on its own .

[/quot

theres a chance you will be judging my lurcher ring next year if you are lucky,especially as you wont charge as it will be a charity event .hope to see you at this years,i will tell chris you want to help with the simulated coursing .just ordered all the shields etc,never thought they were that dear ,still managed to barter the fella though

[tango 221]

Totally sympathise on this.

 

I am organising the WNFSC terrier, lurcher and family dog show again this year and getting judges is difficult enough and the job they have to do on the day is even harder. All judges will have a particular type of dog they naturally prefer - whether it be terriers or lurchers. It's only when they get their hands on them in the ring that they can look for the conformation faults like under/over shot jaws, flat/broken toes, turned out hocks and elbows, etc. - but none of these will ever give you an inkling as to how good or bad the dog performs in the field or underground. Most terriers will have visible battle scars but that doesn't necessarily mean they're good workers, it just means they've been bitten by something.

 

All you can ask of a judge is that they judge each dog fairly. My own preference is for judges from out of the area of the show and I want my judges to look at what's on the end of the lead, not who's holding it. John Clarke and Darren Gallagher did a fantastic job last year and we've just about confirmed the 2 judges for this year - again, both will be coming from outside of Norfolk. The one thing as an organiser you must do is stand by the judges' decision - it is final. If the show is a qualifying round for a championship (as our show is), then there is extra pressure on the judges to 'get it right'.

 

There will always be those that think that showing is a game and a waste of money and proves nothing about how good your dog is, but there are a hell of a lot of people who DO enjoy doing it - so don't knock them. Not every one has got a 'wonder worker' that pulls hares over within seconds or bolts foxes just by looking at them - a lot of the showing fraternity support the numerous countrysports organisations just as much as the people that go out into the field and do the actual job - and they get just as much of a buzz from winning a red rosette as many others get from a successful end to a hunt. Our show is as much about having a good day out as it is about winning rosettes - they'll always be moaners but providing you remember that you can't please everyone, you'll soon stop worrying about trying!!.

have to agree and add that there are always those who are always ready to run down a show or a judge,as someone who has and does run a show i can say to those people,firstly i work my dogs,there are people who hunt more than me but i work them all the same,it takes a hell of alot to get a show running well and believe it or not the people who are after the prizes are the people who allow the show to happen in the first place as its there entries that pay the bills,a judge can only go on looks as thats what he sees in the ring and generally its the dog they personally would have at home,ive seen dogs at shows that ive been told are super dogs and when i seen them in the field they were crap,on the same hand i have a mate with a dog that after a month of in the summer you would say he was a show dog that same dog has well over 40 foxes to his credit,so lets give the shows and judges a bit more credit as everyone makes mistakes

[heart of wales 19]

I would like to go along with what has already been said in that a Judge can never see the Heart of a dog when its been coursing a rabbit, or something else until it lungs are nearly bursting,or how much pain its prepared to endure when faced with charlie down some deep wet cliff face.Or how long it will stay alert waiting for a bolt in driving freezing rain.

However no matter what we think lurcher and terrier shows big or small,play an important role within the countryside in promoting the good side of fieldsports.

I have probably been judging and involved with running several shows, racing, and coursing events, for the last twenty Years,and I have made plenty of mistakes in judging lurchers and organising shows.

However when a ring full of Lurchers or terriers all assemble in front of You to be judged ,the majority of which are in perfect knick,it only sends a message to the knockers, anti scum, labour thieving MP about how we care and look after for our dogs.

In organising events I have had many a sleepless night,trying to please everyone,what makes all worthwhile because it certainly not the money,is seeing kids chuffed with picking up prizes,these will go on to keep hunting and field sports alive.Meeting mates I haven't seen for Years,having a pint and laugh in the night about what went right and what went wrong.

Whenever I have judged and I have picked all types and crosses because I favour none,for me it down to the condition and shape of the dog on the Day,the main thing is to stand by your decision, and be prepared to explain to someone after the show why you didn't pick their dog.

I have never been paid not even petrol money or bridge toll fees,many have tried to give me money and I have put in the show funds,I have received the odd bottle.And have also been bitten three times Twice in the same show by litter brother and sister.

[Timid Toad 18]

can i ask

 

when judging, what is it you look at

 

is it the closest to the perfect lurcher, conformation wise???

 

or is it, prettiest?? or the dog you would most like to own, you being the judge???

 

 

Tell you one thing mate, some of the dodgy shite you see at shows .............. I'd be picking the one that didn't bite me!

i agree on that one he he

[Timid Toad 18]

I would like to go along with what has already been said in that a Judge can never see the Heart of a dog when its been coursing a rabbit, or something else until it lungs are nearly bursting,or how much pain its prepared to endure when faced with charlie down some deep wet cliff face.Or how long it will stay alert waiting for a bolt in driving freezing rain.

However no matter what we think lurcher and terrier shows big or small,play an important role within the countryside in promoting the good side of fieldsports.

I have probably been judging and involved with running several shows, racing, and coursing events, for the last twenty Years,and I have made plenty of mistakes in judging lurchers and organising shows.

However when a ring full of Lurchers or terriers all assemble in front of You to be judged ,the majority of which are in perfect knick,it only sends a message to the knockers, anti scum, labour thieving MP about how we care and look after for our dogs.

In organising events I have had many a sleepless night,trying to please everyone,what makes all worthwhile because it certainly not the money,is seeing kids chuffed with picking up prizes,these will go on to keep hunting and field sports alive.Meeting mates I haven't seen for Years,having a pint and laugh in the night about what went right and what went wrong.

Whenever I have judged and I have picked all types and crosses because I favour none,for me it down to the condition and shape of the dog on the Day,the main thing is to stand by your decision, and be prepared to explain to someone after the show why you didn't pick their dog.

I have never been paid not even petrol money or bridge toll fees,many have tried to give me money and I have put in the show funds,I have received the odd bottle.And have also been bitten three times Twice in the same show by litter brother and sister.

first i have to appologise for you getting bitten as you were covering for me at that show as i was unable to make it to judge oops and as you say its a day out a bit of fun and a chance to meet up with like minded people . yes there are those people who take it SOOO SERIOUS that they want to kill the judge after the show because they didnt get their bit of ribbon and thats all it is people a bit of ribbon and by the next show it will be forgotten so lets just enjoy the day and show our children a good day out to in the beutifull contryside we are lucky enough to live in and to end i hope to see you all at as many shows through the summer that i can make as i have made a hell of a lot of very good mates through the shows over the last 27 yrs or so showing my age now see

[Guest jt750]

Personally i've not been a regular show goer because the first one i entered the judge asked the dog if i was a worker :icon_eek:

 

In all truth a good read from the judges side

[runforyourlife 361]

i persanoly think these WORKING shows are a load of bolloks with people taking there pets there and winning never seeing a days work in there life, its more like crufts these days the prittiest dog wins not the workers, good luck finding some judges

 

 

Not always true! My beddyx won 7 out of 8 shows last year. beating some worthy dogs off this forum. He works everyday of his life... Kills all game. and wades into any underbrowth, thickets etc( in all i have put over 40 stitches in the dog) ...

 

i would put very good money down on him in a "marking contest" .... so your wrong my friend...

 

And you ask why does he win then. The reason.... As 99% of the judges which feel him say straight away.. "how often do you work this dog" when i say everyday they almost always say they can tell..

 

the judge at earth dog running dog show, who had just judged the champion bullx ring. Then did the beddyx, saying to me when i won the shield that "he was the finest working beddy x he had ever felt, and that i must carry on working him and showing him!"