feeding raw chicken

[Cobra 0]

Hi my vet has told me under no circumstances to feed raw chicken /chicken carcases/bones etc to my dogs as they will get salmonella and the bones will damage the dogs guts.I can get frozen minced chicken carcases in kilo blocks cheap enough which i boiled up and mixed with omega tasty dry dog food but the vet said that the minced carcases had next to no food value. Now this does not sound right to me but i am no expert on dog food so should i A stop using the chicken altogether. B feed it as i have been doing with the omega or another mixer ( any suggestions) or feed the chicken raw on its own or with omega. These may sound like stupid questions to you guys but i just want to give the dogs the best diet i can. Any advice would be very helpful. Cheers.

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

Hi my vet has told me under no circumstances to feed raw chicken /chicken carcases/bones etc to my dogs as they will get salmonella and the bones will damage the dogs guts.I can get frozen minced chicken carcases in kilo blocks cheap enough which i boiled up and mixed with omega tasty dry dog food but the vet said that the minced carcases had next to no food value. Now this does not sound right to me but i am no expert on dog food so should i A stop using the chicken altogether. B feed it as i have been doing with the omega or another mixer ( any suggestions) or feed the chicken raw on its own or with omega. These may sound like stupid questions to you guys but i just want to give the dogs the best diet i can. Any advice would be very helpful. Cheers.

 

 

Your Vet is wrong.....

 

RAW Chicken carcases,.fed RAW,... are ideal for lurchers.....

[Hollie 21]

RAW chicken is fine, NEVER EVER feed cooked bones of any sort, they splinter and can cause serious damage.

 

Many vets use the scare tactic because they would rather you feed a dry food that they get comission on!!

 

Dogs guts are completly different to ours, they will not get ill from eating raw meat/bones!

[Born Hunter 17,751]

Vets dont know feck all about feeding raw, just humour them and do your own research, as you are

[kill um with crisps 7]

I give mine a raw chicken at least once a week. There perfectly healthy.

[salclalin 240]

Your Vet is Talking Bollox,i Reared my young Bitch on Chicken Carcasses.

[skellyb 8]

Nothing wrong with raw, but better as carcases than minced.

 

http://www.ukrmb.co.uk for details http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipe/List for recipes and to dispel some feeding myths http://www.rawfed.com/myths/

[Cobra 0]

Thanks for the info fellas time to find a new vet i think. Cheers

[blackpack 70]

as said chicken and carcasses are spot on dog food, but feed raw only mate, like all meat and bones feed raw.

[budgie123 163]

I currently purchase chicken carcases and have been feeding my dogs on them for over 12 months with no problems just fit and healthy dogs.I have just reared a pup with 60% of the diet being whole chicken wings from 7 weeks no problems at all.I also purchase the minced chicken carcases which i feed raw with no problems.My vet was also dismisive of feeding this way.

[blacktabs 3]

Dont bother with minced carcasses as its probably mostly bone as most of the meat will have been removed try your local supermarket thighs and drumsticks for us is cheaper there than pet food,

Ive fed chicken carcasses for thirty five years with brown bred and veg the dogs never go the vets for anything but jabs and bad accidents never had skin trouble or loss of condition frozen when bought and defrosted night before they get it personally id change the vet atb.

[pointer 543]

ive fed thousands of chicken carcases to dogs,ive fed them to young pups aswell.your vet is completely wrong,its a very good food.

Edited March 22, 2010 by pointer

[sandymere 8,263]

I feed a proportion of raw meat but do so in the knowledge of the risk this entails.

As mentioned above the minced will most likely have had most of the meat removed and be the residual bone and skin, that’s still a good source of fat and protein but very high in calcium which may be a problem if fed a lot. There are risks feeding raw and the reason vets are nervous as they see the results rather than selling alternatives. One problem is the increased incidence of bacterial infection in pet quality raw feeds. Dogs are able to deal with a certain amount of these but continuous high doses especially when working may have a negative effect long term. Then there are the risks of cross contamination to humans, especially children, as the bacteria are pretty dangerous and can remain for a long time on your dog and in your garden even if you clear up. So in conclusion small amounts of it may be ok but if you’re looking for a meat supplement then spending a little more and getting real meat may work out cheaper as you’re not just buying bone and lastly do so in the knowledge that there are real risks of raw feeding to both the dog and people coming into contact.

Sandymere.

[skellyb 8]

I feed a proportion of raw meat but do so in the knowledge of the risk this entails.

As mentioned above the minced will most likely have had most of the meat removed and be the residual bone and skin, that’s still a good source of fat and protein but very high in calcium which may be a problem if fed a lot. There are risks feeding raw and the reason vets are nervous as they see the results rather than selling alternatives. One problem is the increased incidence of bacterial infection in pet quality raw feeds. Dogs are able to deal with a certain amount of these but continuous high doses especially when working may have a negative effect long term. Then there are the risks of cross contamination to humans, especially children, as the bacteria are pretty dangerous and can remain for a long time on your dog and in your garden even if you clear up. So in conclusion small amounts of it may be ok but if you’re looking for a meat supplement then spending a little more and getting real meat may work out cheaper as you’re not just buying bone and lastly do so in the knowledge that there are real risks of raw feeding to both the dog and people coming into contact.

Sandymere.

http://rawfed.com/myths/zoonotic.html

Myth: RAW-FED ANIMALS POSE A SIGNIFICANT HEALTH RISK TO HUMANS.

This is a myth made possible by our society's pathological fear of bacteria. Of the millions of bacteria on this earth, it is estimated that less than 1% are harmful. Media and society as a whole have played up bacteria, painting it as an evil nemesis that must be stomped out with disinfectants, antibacterial everything, and unnecessary vaccination. This has resulted in the emergence of super-bacteria and "super-viruses", no thanks to the improper use of antibiotics and the plethora of antibacterial soaps and products. Developmental biologists have recently learned that bacterial exposure is absolutely necessary for the development of a healthy immune system, among other things. Humans and dogs have evolved in the presence of bacteria, and insisting on a sterile environment has created more damage than good. So where does this intersect with raw feeding?

 

Raw diet critics tout this myth as a main reason for not feeding raw. Yes, there is bacteria in raw meat. Yes, this bacteria can harm you. Yes, this bacteria is sometimes shed in dogs' feces. So if a raw-fed dog licks you, are you going to get sick? I suppose all things are possible, but on the whole: no, you will not get sick. This bacteria does not persist in the mouth of a raw-fed canine. Canine saliva contains lysozyme, an enzyme that lyses and destroys bacteria, but more importantly, the absence of plaque means the dog's mouth is no longer a hospitable place for bacteria to inhabit. A kibble-fed dog's mouth, however, provides the perfect environment for bacteria growth: plaque-covered teeth with sugary and starchy complexes provide both food and shelter for bacteria. The bacteria thrive in the mouth of a kibble-fed dog because it provides both a perfect atmosphere and a good food source (Lonsdale, T. 2001. Raw Meaty Bones.). Why does a kibble-fed dog have stinky dog breath? Because of the bacteria in their gums and on their teeth (just like the bacteria in our mouths gives us halitosis). A raw-fed dog's mouth provides neither food nor a viable atmosphere for bacteria, which is why a raw-fed dog has odorless breath. So which dog would you be more worried about being kissed by and contracting disease from? I personally would be quite leery of the stinky-breathed, bacteria-laden kibble-fed dog. If one is still worried about being licked by a raw-fed dog, one has several solutions. Teach the dog not to lick, or avoid being licked. But if you have a healthy immune system, being licked and in contact with a raw-fed dog will not affect you other than boosting your immune system. This is the same thing for kids: being around and licked by a raw-fed dog will do nothing but boost their immune systems and help them grow up into happy, healthy adults.

 

As for dogs shedding bacteria in their feces: do not eat dog poo and wash your hands after feeding your dogs or cleaning up after them. Handle the raw meat you feed your dogs the same way you handle your own raw meat (which can get you sick if you eat it raw or do not clean up well enough afterward; do the experts really think that people are not smart enough to figure out that they should wash their hands and countertops after preparing raw meaty bones for their dogs? Apparently so.). If you have kids, teach the children not to eat dog poo and clean up immediately after your dog, and you will not need to worry. Bacteria is absolutely everywhere. You are just as likely, if not more likely, to get sick from your produce or a strange bathroom. You do not need to worry about the dog tracking bacteria through the house; there is plenty of bacteria throughout the house anyway, so any additional bacteria a raw-fed dog might add is negligible. Thousands of people—even immunocompromised people—feed their dogs raw with no bacteria issues and with stronger immune systems as a result.

 

Anti-raw people protest that raw-fed dogs pose a serious health risk to immunocompromised people and people with auto-immune disorders. Oddly enough, it is these immunocompromised people who have a better understanding of the important role nutrition plays in strengthening the immune system. A quick tour of the Yahoo! Rawfeeding group will reveal quite a few people who have an auto-immune disorder but have been feeding their dogs raw for many years with no ill results whatsoever. Anti-raw people (vets included) make it sound like immuno-compromised people (and most other people) are incapable of properly handling raw meat and cleaning up afterwards. The solution proposed—do not feed raw meaty bones!—is absurdly condescending (they assume we cannot clean up after ourselves and are incapable of feeding our dogs because we lack a credential in pet nutrition), and skips the most logical step: simply observe proper hygiene and use the same precautions you use in preparing your own meat. It is not that difficult, honestly.

 

People proclaiming this "serious health risk" claim seem to think people are incapable of a) properly feeding their dogs and cleaning up after themselves. Use good hygiene practices: clean countertops and utensils used to feed dogs, and wash your hands. Feed the dog outside or inside on a towel or plastic-type tablecloth you can reuse and wash when needed. Or feed the dog in its crate, or on an easy-to-clean surface. By training the dog to eat in one place, you will not have to "worry" about him tracking a mess or bacteria through the house. If you are still concerned about bacteria, clean your dog's paws, mouth, etc. with a mild, safe antimicrobial like diluted white vinegar. Honestly, as long as proper hygiene is observed, the bacteria are a non-issue. Remember, you are sharing your life with an animal that licks its own rear and eats cat poop before licking your face.

 

http://rawfed.com/myths/bacteria.html

Myth: THE BACTERIA IN RAW MEAT WILL HURT YOUR DOG.

This is discussion purely about bacteria and your dog. If you are looking for a discussion about dogs spreading bacteria to humans, go here.

 

Yes, the bacteria in raw meat might hurt your dog IF the dog already has an immunocompromised system or some underlying problem. Raw diets have also been blamed for causing things like pancreatitis and kidney disease, when in reality the underlying disease was already there and was brought to light by the change in diet. Dogs are surprisingly well-equipped to deal with bacteria. Their saliva has antibacterial properties; it contains lysozyme, an enzyme that lyses and destroys harmful bacteria. Their short digestive tract is designed to push through food and bacteria quickly without giving bacteria time to colonize. The extremely acidic environment in the gut is also a good bacteria colonization deterrent. People often point to the fact that dogs shed salmonella in their feces (even kibble-fed dogs do this) without showing any ill effects as proof that the dog is infected with salmonella. In reality, all this proves is that the dog has effectively passed the salmonella through its system with no problems. Yes, the dog can act as a salmonella carrier, but the solution is simple—do not eat dog crap and wash your hands after picking up after your dog.

 

Even kibble-fed dogs regularly shed salmonella and other bacteria. Most of the documented cases of severe bacterial septicemia are from kibble-fed animals or animals suffering from reactions to vaccines. Commercial pet foods have been pulled off shelves more than once because of bacteria AND molds that produce a deadly toxin. The solution? Use common sense. Clean up well and wash your hands. And think about your dog—this is an animal that can lick itself, lick other dogs, eat a variety of disgusting rotting things, and ingest its own feces or those of other animals with no ill effects. The dog, plain and simple, can handle greater bacterial loads than we can. Can dogs get sick from the bacteria? I suppose they can. But it is rare and usually indicative of an underlying problem, especially when one stops to consider how much bacteria that dog probably comes in contact with every single day. One must ask "Why this dog? Why now? What has made this particular dog susceptible to bacterial overgrowth?" Something is not 'right' regarding the dog's health—a healthy dog does not suffer from bacterial infections or bacterial septicemia. That is just common sense. A dog suffering from "salmonella poisoning" is obviously not healthy, especially when compared to a dog that ate the same food with the same salmonella load but is perfectly healthy and unaffected. The first dog has suffered a 'breakdown' in its health that allowed the bacteria to become a problem; if one is talking in homeopathic medicine terminology, this is simply one more symptom that shows the dog is suffering from chronic disease (see the Vaccines page for more information).

 

I put forth that it is the kibble, not the raw meat, that causes bacterial problems. Kibble in the intestine not only irritates the lining of the bowels but also provides the perfect warm, wet environment with plenty of undigested sugars and starches as food for bacteria. This is why thousands of processed food-fed animals suffer from from a condition called Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth, or SIBO (Lonsdale, T. 2001. Raw Meaty Bones. pg 85). Raw meaty bones, however, create a very inhospitable environment for bacteria, as RMBs are easily digestible and have no carbohydrates, starches, or sugars to feed the bacteria.

 

Can raw-fed dogs make other dogs sick? If the other dog has a suppressed immune system or some underlying problem, then perhaps a raw-fed dog can make another dog sick. But keep in mind the inordinate amount of bacteria dogs usually ingest anyway, not to mention the plaques of bacteria covering the teeth and gums of the kibble-fed dogs. People recall raw-fed dogs being the only dogs at dog shows that did not get sick with some communicable disease of some sort, and then instantly assume that it was those dogs that got all the other dogs sick. A more plausible explanation is that the raw-fed dogs have a much stronger immune system and are thus better equipped to fight off diseases and "canine common colds" that circulate at shows (and possibly that they have been vaccinated less than their kibble-fed counterparts, which results in a stronger immune system). For a more in-depth discussion of how processed foods suppress the immune system, please refer to Raw Meaty Bones.

 

Just some final thoughts on bacteria and raw: this is what finds its way into the "sterile" kibbled commercial foods:

 

"Meat products not intended for human consumption, such as inedible tissues, condemned portions of carcasses, and entire carcasses of condemned animals (eg, animals found to be dead, dying, disabled, or diseased at the time of slaughter), are also used for dog food. Because of the inherent nature of these products and the less stringent handling requirements, compared with products approved for human consumption, these products may contain high levels of bacterial contamination." (LeJuene, J.T. and D.D. Hancock. 2001. Public health concerns associated with feeding raw meat diets to dogs. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 219(9): 1222.)

 

 

And as for commercial foods being "bacteria free" (an assumption that is often inferred when people put down raw diets because of the bacteria):

 

"Pet foods, commercial or homemade, provide an ideal environment for bacterial proliferation." (LeJuene, J.T. and D.D. Hancock. 2001. Public health concerns associated with feeding raw meat diets to dogs. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 219(9): 1224.)

 

 

So do not be fooled into thinking kibbled, commercial pet food is a sterile, bacteria-free source of food! The starches, rancid fats, and sugars in kibbled foods provide much better food sources for bacteria than the proteins in raw meat.

[Born Hunter 17,751]

and it begins AGAIN...