khan or mallignaggi

[gnasher16 30,118]

there is a huge difference between being exposed for a glaring weakness you have and being beaten at the fight youve fought since day one by a more technical fighter,no-one learned anything new about benn, it was however confirmed khan has absolutely no chin that can't be improved and his other attributes cant imo cover for that consistently at the elite level (like they could with Hearns

 

 

Blan are you a barrister by day ?....you have a clever way of putting a spin on things to suit your argument.....

How can you possibly say that the loss Benn suffered to Watson was any different to the loss Khan suffered to Prescott ?....they were both losses through a severe and glaring weakness.....and that weakness was a poor defence brought about by overconfidence......to say one was different to the other is just plain wrong....i hate to name drop as its muggy.....but Benns trainer in later years is a friend of mine since childhood so i did occasionally get to have a natter with Benn from time to time and he was the first to admit he didnt have the best chin and he had no defence,but what he did have was true fighting heart,something i personally dont think Khan has.

 

My belief is Benn was a natural fighter who was taught to box.

Khan is a natural boxer who is being taught to fight,and that doesnt work in my opinion as you cant put in what nature left out.......so when the time comes that Khan needs to show his fighting heart thats when i think he will be found wanting.

This " chin " issue you make.....do you seriously think Freddie Roach would have taken Khan under his wing if he was so brittle.....or just maybe he knows like most others do that Khans is a defensive issue not a chin issue.

 

Just a quick comparison from years ago regarding Hearns....when Hearns was at his peak Emannuel Steward had both Hearns and a stablemate named Milton Mccrory at the Kronk gym in Detroit,both were mirror images of each other in their physiques and both world champions.Steward said at the time if he could put Mccrorys chin on Hearns body he would have the complete fighter.In the same year he said that Hearns was outpunched by Hagler and Mccrory was knocked out cold by Don Curry.....which just go,s to show how unpredictable what we think is predictable can be.

Edited June 6, 2010 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 30,118]

 

And, in my opinion,.you are also an extremely accurate, informative. and erudite boxing pundit..

 

 

Im not exactly blessed in the brains department and have absolutely no idea what erudite means but i like the sound of it i might use that one ....no doubt i,ll use it in the complete wrong context but we live and learn

All the best

[Malt 379]

And, in my opinion,.you are also an extremely accurate, informative. and erudite boxing pundit..

 

 

Im not exactly blessed in the brains department and have absolutely no idea what erudite means but i like the sound of it i might use that one ....no doubt i,ll use it in the complete wrong context but we live and learn

All the best

 

It means you know exactly how to put your point across in a clear & understandable way!

 

(I think!)

[gnasher16 30,118]

 

i hate criticize khan's career because he is staying active unlike a lot of others,but i hear he's fighting Casa now? I'd hate to see his whole career wasted fighting smaller/shot/feather-fisted fighters but i think thats were he's going.

 

 

Unlike those 2 immortals of the British ring Hatton and Calzaghe eh .....who were loved for fighting over the hill names ! Calzaghe was the biggest waste of talent ive ever seen and Hatton was the best conman ive ever seen yet they are both idolized by the British public.....how dare Khan pick fights

 

I think your Benn argument has run out of steam a little as it doesnt take a huge boxing fan to see the likeness of their losses at the same stage of their career for the same reasons and it seems you wont even accept what comes from the horses mouth so we,ll have to leave that one !!!...nice to hear your thoughts anyway

 

Maltenby thanks for the explanation....im ok with boxing or dogs its 3 plus 2 i struggle with

[dave1979 77]

watch michael "the lurcher jennings" fighting for british title either this or nxt friday... local to me and into his running dogs!!!

[gnasher16 30,118]

actually i change my mind youre right

 

khan was beaten in an epic battle that will go down in boxing history as the day; the great,the magnificent, the only, 'Sugar Ray Prescott' first rose to fame

 

 

Since when was benn/watson an " epic battle " ? it was a non title bout that turned out to be a big upset nothing more nothing less....no different to khan/prescott.....

 

You seem to be fixated on this theory that Benn was not exposed by Watson but outshined in a tactical battle.....so why then did Benn immediately change his style of fighting ? why did he shortly after change trainers and concentrate on his defense ?....im not giving you thoughts im giving you facts !....Benn has said from his own mouth this was what happened,his trainer said this was what happened.... should we ignore this and accept what you think because you know better

I guess you,ll just have to accept whatever you like Blan but common sense tells me that if the people at the centre of the debate say thats how it was,then thats how it was....

[Attack Fell Terrier 864]

 

I don't know Gnasher, Khan has had 24 pro bouts within 5 years, Benn had the same amount of bouts in 2 years. In 5 years Benn had fought Eubank, Barkley, Watson, DeWitt and Malinga amongst others. Khan hasn't fought that calibre of fighter in the same time period IMO.

 

 

 

Nobody in todays times would get away with what Benn did in the first few years of his career,he fought absolute no hopers,Benns manager at that time was Burt Mcarthy who was a buiseness man not a boxing manager,he financed Benns early career and wanted money back on his investment,Benn didnt fight a live opponent until Watson,if i remember right he fought Darren Hobson who was vaguely decent.

 

The stage of career Khan is at now is the stage Benn was at when he beat Barkley,he had come back from a defeat,won a world title and defended it.....in my opinion a Khan fight with a Timothy Bradley is a tougher prospect than Benns next few fights with Kid Milo,Robbie Simms and a few others i forget who now....but of course Benn went on to fight big fights mainly through his rivalry with Eubank which Khan wont have.....but anyway its up to the kid himself now he,s done the easy part now lets see if he can do the hard part.....i believe the thing that time will show is that Khan is not a fighter in his heart.....and Benn was....and its this that will bring a fighter through when the chips are down.

 

I can see you're into your boxing, but apart from the last bit I still don't agree with the comparisons whether it be the fighter or their careers.

 

As I pointed out earlier in the thread within 5 years Benn had fought many more times and against some serious opponents and fighters that posed a real threat. To date Khan has fought Malinaggi, who IMO never was as good as the hype that surrounded him and didn't have the punch to take advantage of Khan's major weakness.

 

I think the comparisons will be best made when Khan has retired, it's too early to make comparisons with warriors like Benn IMO.

[gnasher16 30,118]

benn changed because he could, all he lacked was some schooling,he didnt lack chin/heart/spirit etc

what khan lacks is built in,you've got it or you havent

 

im not denying why benn lost,he lost because his defence was no part of his game plan khan got caught,the fight didnt last long enough for defence to play a part,he only got caught once and the fight should have been stopped.its not like his defence was poor and was getting tagged time and time again was it?

 

no matter how talented he is he proved he cant take a decent punch, no matter how much he improves he will never have any consistency, he can fight all the bin men and 40 year olds he wants,he cannot consistently beat top tier fighters.

 

thats how he was exposed

 

in a nutshell khan was exposed because he cannot improve enough to nullify his weaknesses at the top level

 

benn could

 

hearns could

 

lewis could

 

audley harrison couldnt

 

i could go on

 

 

So Benn losing due to a lack of defence and Khan losing due to a lack of defense is somehow different in your book just because one was knocked spark out and the other wasnt.....

 

I say it again,Benn has stated from his own mouth what ive told you,so has his former trainer.....but you know better.

 

The fact both these fighters careers followed a similar path and were exposed in a similar way and how both went away and worked on their faults and came back is where the comparison stops.....

Benn was a fighter in his heart and went on to the very top level of world boxing.....i have my doubts Khan is a fighter in his heart and for this reason i dont think he will go on to the very top level of world boxing.

 

Where Harrison or Lennox lewis come into it i dont know.

Edited June 6, 2010 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 30,118]

Attack Fell Terrier....If i remember right Benn fought around 20 fights in 2 years never going past 4 rounds until he met Watson and was exposed.

Khan fought around 18 fights in 3 years going the distance once i think before he met Prescott and was exposed.

 

Both being excellent punchers who knocked out lesser opponents but were exposed defensively when they stepped up in class....both who went away and worked on those weaknesses and came back....of course you cant compare any further than that as Khans career is in progress,but up till now they are similar careers.

 

Incidentally,i would say the only true top level world class fighter Benn beat was Mclellend.....if you can think of another let me know,possibly Barklay but im not sure he was real top level.

Edited June 6, 2010 by gnasher16

[Attack Fell Terrier 864]

Attack Fell Terrier....If i remember right Benn fought around 20 fights in 2 years never going past 4 rounds until he met Watson and was exposed.

Khan fought around 18 fights in 3 years going the distance once i think before he met Prescott and was exposed.

 

Both being excellent punchers who knocked out lesser opponents but were exposed defensively when they stepped up in class....both who went away and worked on those weaknesses and came back....of course you cant compare any further than that as Khans career is in progress,but up till now they are similar careers.

 

Incidentally,i would say the only true top level world class fighter Benn beat was Mclellend.....if you can think of another let me know,possibly Barklay but im not sure he was real top level.

 

The point is he fought who he could and who was about at the time. I know the bout with Jones Jnr didn't come off or with Toney (and I don't think he'd of beat either of them, infact I think he'd of been annihilated) but he would of fought anyone including either of them if he had the opportunity to do so, Khan on the other hand has no interest in fighting anyone other than those he knows he could easily beat if his career to date is anything to go by.

 

How did you score the second bout between Benn and Eubank mate?

[gnasher16 30,118]

funny how khan,short of opponents apparently, hasnt opted to re-match sugar ray prescott

 

you really dont seem to understand the fundamental difference between a fighter being out classed and a fighter being exposed for what they really are

 

can i safely assume you're pakistani/muslim?

 

 

funny as f**k !!.....im a proud white Englishman from East London who had to move away from East London to get away from the pakies....i am about as far from a khan/muslim fan as you could possibly get !

 

However....ive been around enough gyms over enough years to know a decent prospect and have a decent understanding of how the sport works.....

 

Now,ive told you what both Benn and his trainer both said,but you wont have it.

 

What will it take for you to accept that Benn had a poor chin and no defence and that was the reason for his loss to Watson.....they are the words Benn himself has said,but you are actually saying you know him better than he knows himself just because you have watched his fights on tv .....

We are going round in circles so you have the last word lad i think thats what your after.........

[gnasher16 30,118]

[quote name='Attack Fell Terrier' date='06 June 2010 - 04:24 PM'

The point is he fought who he could and who was about at the time. I know the bout with Jones Jnr didn't come off or with Toney (and I don't think he'd of beat either of them, infact I think he'd of been annihilated) but he would of fought anyone including either of them if he had the opportunity to do so, Khan on the other hand has no interest in fighting anyone other than those he knows he could easily beat if his career to date is anything to go by.

 

How did you score the second bout between Benn and Eubank mate?

 

Benn didnt actually duck anyone i grant you,but the fight with Roy Jones was a big possibility at one point of his career yet he stepped aside to allow somebody else ( i forget who now ) to challenge Jones as he wanted the Lou Gent fight instead...this was a big fight at Earls Court as it was local rivalry and it was a great fight as it happened....Benn later said it was a big mistake as the Jones fight then passed by and he never got the opportunity again...i agree Toney or Jones would probably have destroyed him.

At that stage of Benns career he had already had about 13 fights since first winning the title and was ready for the career defining fights.....Amir Khan has only held a title a few months so to expect him to fight career defining fights at this stage is just not how the sport works.

 

Benn/Eubank 2.....pretty sure i had Benn by 1 or 2 rounds,i remember feeling completely deflated when the draw was announced anyway....how about yourself ?

Edited June 6, 2010 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 30,118]

 

khans chin is so glaringly poor no amount of defence will protect him,he will never consistently beat genuine top tier fighters because he will get tagged!

 

 

 

What a ridiculous thing to say !!!.....so what your saying is the worlds greatest trainer Freddie Roach cannot possibly make improvements to Amir Khan as a boxer....

 

Jimmy Tibbs improved Nigel Benn as a complete boxer but Freddie Roach cant improve Amir Khan.....well what a fool Freddie Roach must be maybe he should listen to people like you rather than wasting his time training no hopers,makes you wonder why Manny Paquiao doesnt get himself a top trainer instead of a fool like Roach !

Edited June 6, 2010 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 30,118]

it can improve him yes but not make him untouchable,he can still do well as protected fighter,fighting only those who cant smash porcelain

 

 

Who said anything about Khan being untouchable,your bouncing from one extreme to another.You see,you wont remember as you was only a kid......but i remember people saying exactly the same about Nigel Benn went he went with Jimmy Tibbs....but he became so defensively sound that he didnt have to duck anyone even though his chin was still poor.

And if you think Khan is the only fighter who will go through his career being protected then you are possibly as deluded as you sound.Joe Calzaghe will go down as one of the all time great British fighters,you wont find a more protected fighter than him yet he was loved for it !

If your going to debate a subject like this at least be sensible about it.

Edited June 7, 2010 by gnasher16

[Attack Fell Terrier 864]

Benn didnt actually duck anyone i grant you,but the fight with Roy Jones was a big possibility at one point of his career yet he stepped aside to allow somebody else ( i forget who now ) to challenge Jones as he wanted the Lou Gent fight instead...this was a big fight at Earls Court as it was local rivalry and it was a great fight as it happened....Benn later said it was a big mistake as the Jones fight then passed by and he never got the opportunity again...i agree Toney or Jones would probably have destroyed him.

At that stage of Benns career he had already had about 13 fights since first winning the title and was ready for the career defining fights.....Amir Khan has only held a title a few months so to expect him to fight career defining fights at this stage is just not how the sport works.

 

Yeah I appreciate that, Khan still has time on his side to prove me wrong, but I don't think he ever will want to take on the big names. He's a talented little Paki I'll give him that but I see him picking his way through his career. That pony Paulie Malinaggi fight was a prime example of that.

 

Benn/Eubank 2.....pretty sure i had Benn by 1 or 2 rounds,i remember feeling completely deflated when the draw was announced anyway....how about yourself ?

 

I think I had it the same, I know I had Benn winning and he should of done BUT! the Draw was down to politics.

 

Remember Don King promoted that bout and had it down in the contract that whether win or lose both fighters would sign with him after the bout, But there was nothing in the contract about a DRAW!!!! So both fighters could and did go their own way and didn't have to sign with King.

 

King was f*cking furious he had been hustled out of having two of the biggest stars in British boxing at the time.