foolish move

[dave1372 83]

Glad to hear it worked out aok in the end. Mind you when you try to read the Section 47 & 48 stuff I can understand how difficult it is to interpret whether you should or shouldn't have to carry your license and you can imagine the shit that the cops would be in if they stopped someone and let them go when they shouldn't.... I guess what it comes down to is how they handled it....ie were they being arrogant arses or could have explained politely that given the circumstances it was something that would have to be checked and rectified in the morning and apologise for having to remove the rifles....I am sure then you would have seen it from their point of view. Shame they were probably just arses!

[chimp 299]

discraceful !!!

 

im sure your rifle got damaged in there care

[Mr_Logic 5]

As I've said on Pigeonwatch, the officer actually acted wholly in compliance with the law. If you look back at the actual Firearms acts, you will see that if you cannot prove you are the legal, licensed owner of a firearm, the police have the right to confiscate it until such time as you prove this.

 

The onus is on you to do this, the police officer does not have any requirement to check it. This means that while you don't need the FAC on you, it helps because this proves legal ownership. PNC merely says you are an FAC holder.

 

Personally I think the police officer was wrong, he handled it badly and from the sounds of things his knowledge wasn't what it should be, BUT legally you have no grounds for complaint, sadly.

[bignoel 14]

ah but as my fao's boss this being the last man to sign your firearms cert said on a PNC check now it takes less time to check you guns are registerd to you after produceing some form of ID driveing license . if i wanted i could claim loss of work as my firearms are my work also the rifle left my procession would now need a full service and resighting as it maywell have been tamperd with .not to mention all the running around to get it back again another day lost at work .but i am not going down that road as the price would be to high to pay for getting there backs up .i have been advised the officer was in the wrong and just being a ass hole . and this is not a offence and your license is not revokible he was wrong but got me thinking enough to get in touch with a certain well known insurance company for advise .which i never received. a phone call does not cost the fee i pay them every year canceld as from today.

[paulus 26]

as i said at the begining of this thread if they issued a tempory cert by return post upon recipt of the origanal sent in for variation, renewall etc, then most problems would be avoided. even if you didnt carry it with you, you could still produce it if required.

[JonathanL 4]

As I've said on Pigeonwatch, the officer actually acted wholly in compliance with the law. If you look back at the actual Firearms acts, you will see that if you cannot prove you are the legal, licensed owner of a firearm, the police have the right to confiscate it until such time as you prove this.

 

The onus is on you to do this, the police officer does not have any requirement to check it. This means that while you don't need the FAC on you, it helps because this proves legal ownership. PNC merely says you are an FAC holder.

 

Personally I think the police officer was wrong, he handled it badly and from the sounds of things his knowledge wasn't what it should be, BUT legally you have no grounds for complaint, sadly.

 

To be a little pedantic - an FAC proves a legal entitlement to posseess the gun. It doesn't prove you as the legal owner.

 

I'm not sure if I agree that the cop handled it badly. If the PNC shows the details of all the guns on your cert then yes he did. If not though then what else was he to do? He doesn't know whether you are authorised to possess that particular gun. It may have been one that you had illegally.

 

J.

[JonathanL 4]

as i said at the begining of this thread if they issued a tempory cert by return post upon recipt of the origanal sent in for variation, renewall etc, then most problems would be avoided. even if you didnt carry it with you, you could still produce it if required.

 

I agree that this should be automatic. Certs in my area are taking an age to renew - knocking on for 12 weeks at present which is a joke, quite honestly. Lots of people are having to arrange storage with dealers because stuff isn't getting renewed on time. I know of one dealer alone who in the space of a fortnight has taken in 50 firearms from various people because their tickets have expired. It's an absolute disgrace!

 

J.

Edited March 18, 2010 by JonathanL

[bignoel 14]

As I've said on Pigeonwatch, the officer actually acted wholly in compliance with the law. If you look back at the actual Firearms acts, you will see that if you cannot prove you are the legal, licensed owner of a firearm, the police have the right to confiscate it until such time as you prove this.

 

The onus is on you to do this, the police officer does not have any requirement to check it. This means that while you don't need the FAC on you, it helps because this proves legal ownership. PNC merely says you are an FAC holder.

 

Personally I think the police officer was wrong, he handled it badly and from the sounds of things his knowledge wasn't what it should be, BUT legally you have no grounds for complaint, sadly.

 

To be a little pedantic - an FAC proves a legal entitlement to posseess the gun. It doesn't prove you as the legal owner.

 

I'm not sure if I agree that the cop handled it badly. If the PNC shows the details of all the guns on your cert then yes he did. If not though then what else was he to do? He doesn't know whether you are authorised to possess that particular gun. It may have been one that you had illegally.

 

J.

but then if he thought the gun was held illeagaly why was,nt i arrested for haveing a unlicensed firearm in my procession ? penalty max 5 years

[JonathanL 4]

As I've said on Pigeonwatch, the officer actually acted wholly in compliance with the law. If you look back at the actual Firearms acts, you will see that if you cannot prove you are the legal, licensed owner of a firearm, the police have the right to confiscate it until such time as you prove this.

 

The onus is on you to do this, the police officer does not have any requirement to check it. This means that while you don't need the FAC on you, it helps because this proves legal ownership. PNC merely says you are an FAC holder.

 

Personally I think the police officer was wrong, he handled it badly and from the sounds of things his knowledge wasn't what it should be, BUT legally you have no grounds for complaint, sadly.

 

To be a little pedantic - an FAC proves a legal entitlement to posseess the gun. It doesn't prove you as the legal owner.

 

I'm not sure if I agree that the cop handled it badly. If the PNC shows the details of all the guns on your cert then yes he did. If not though then what else was he to do? He doesn't know whether you are authorised to possess that particular gun. It may have been one that you had illegally.

 

J.

but then if he thought the gun was held illeagaly why was,nt i arrested for haveing a unlicensed firearm in my procession ? penalty max 5 years

 

This is a point but arrest is always discretionary. In fact, PACE lays down certain criteria before you can be arrested - simply being suspected of an offence isn't enough. They know who you are and where to find you when it comes down to it.

 

Thinking about it; although there isn't a requirement in law to carry your cert with you, the section allowing a police officer to seize the gun if you don't have it is a type of encouragement to do so without going so far as to impose a criminal sanction.

 

J.

[Cheshire JP 0]

popt out for a couple of hours last night lamping and on the way home at 1am i had a brake light out and guess who pulled me the armed response unit and they told me off with a slap wrist ? but then asked what guns i had which was the 243 then they asked for my license and guess what its in haveing a section 5 added to it so i was told i had a unlicensed firearm ? and they confronscated [sp] it and ammo and i have to go to cop shop as soon as i get my license back to see what is going to happen .anyone else had this and what outcome was there .

 

 

I'm totally confused, ALL firearms records are now on PNC, if the PNC told them you had a Firearm then they can also check instantly you have a FAC.

 

There is NO legal requirement to carry your FAC (although a copy can be useful).

 

Just don't understand the issue here??

 

Kick me someone if I have missed something!!

 

This is right.. All FAC holders are now on a system so they can get you info there and then. " like they do with the DVLA " So Why the wanted your driving licence i have no idea.

 

Sounds to me that the nobs that pulled you " one of wich " has only just passed over to armed reponce and wanted his 1st collar "TWAT"

 

You do have th right to hold on to the bolt. AND! follow them to see that its booked in with all ammo " counted "

 

this is total cock up they made and trying to hide it hoping you dont know what your talking about.. kick em up the ass for me ..

[Mr_Logic 5]

The PNC does not show all the details of the firearms AFAIK. It shows you hold an FAC.

 

To access the firearm details, someone has to access the national firearms DB.

 

When Deker and I ran into the police (they were out at the shoot for other reasons, but checked us out when they bumped into us) one time, they checked my FAC, which I had with me, but since they had never seen one, they were going to call an ARV - I pointed out the national database and this was checked quickly enough, but when they radioed through someone had to find out how to log into it, and then check the details. It certainly wasn't something these guys were using every day.

 

On that basis, the copper was legal, but heavy-handed.