Balistic tip "hunting"

[john robbo 30]

there isnt much meat on a roe rib cage

and i will take neck head shots on occasion

but have you never heard of best practice.

head shots are a no no if you shoot many deer off sticks there is too much can go wrong.

[langouroux 14]

just out of interest isnt 165g bullet a bit on the heavy side for roe?

 

i am about to go to 120g BT's homeloaded for my 6.5x55 as my friend uses them as he shots everyting from fox to big cornish reds with them. the meat dmamage doesn;t seem that bad al at all to be honest!

[Treacle Trackpad 6]

just out of interest isnt 165g bullet a bit on the heavy side for roe?

 

i am about to go to 120g BT's homeloaded for my 6.5x55 as my friend uses them as he shots everyting from fox to big cornish reds with them. the meat dmamage doesn;t seem that bad al at all to be honest!

 

I originally used 120grn BT's in my 6.5 but the amount of damage they were causing on deer put a stop to that straight away. I have moved onto 140grn SP which I find much better. I will only use BT's on fox and varmints now.

[john robbo 30]

To my mind its speed what tends to blow roe up.

heavy for calibre bullets of s/p nature tend to do a lot less damage, as they are slower and heavily constructed and dont over expand causing massive tissue damage.

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Am i being stupid here but are not bt's designed to fragment on impact ? Hardly condusive to meat production and unlawful i think .Weve all tried it but these days they are kept to the .222 only .Dont make me put up a retard thread on here too .lol.

[flytie 1]

Am i being stupid here but are not bt's designed to fragment on impact ? Hardly condusive to meat production and unlawful i think .Weve all tried it but these days they are kept to the .222 only .Dont make me put up a retard thread on here too .lol.

FD, There are two different types of BT made by Nosler, the "Varmint" and the "Hunting"; http://www.nosler.com/bullets.htm

 

They react in very different ways

 

ft

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Am i being stupid here but are not bt's designed to fragment on impact ? Hardly condusive to meat production and unlawful i think .Weve all tried it but these days they are kept to the .222 only .Dont make me put up a retard thread on here too .lol.

FD, There are two different types of BT made by Nosler, the "Varmint" and the "Hunting"; http://www.nosler.com/bullets.htm

 

They react in very different ways

 

ft

 

Cheers mate

[john robbo 30]

hunting btips are in my experience still TO violent for roe at close woodland ranges.

Edited March 17, 2010 by john robbo

[flytie 1]

hunting btips are in my experience still TO violent for roe at close woodland ranges.

John, I have asked this before, but I will ask again cos I'm interested;

 

Is it all plastic tipped bullets, like the Hornady SST etc, that are the problem, or just the Nosler's?

 

ft

Edited March 17, 2010 by flytie

[john robbo 30]

no there are good and bad.MY FINDINGS are,

Vmax, b/tip, blitzkings usually very violent,

sst's are very unpredictable either failing to expand or blowing up.

swifts, interbonds, are stronger but very expensive.

I find it easier to ban all plastic points unless client buying the venison.

Its just easier for me.

I dont deal with gamedealers just butchers and private use so the meat damage is a real issue.

Same for hollow points actually but not many use them and the sierra gamekings are quite controlled expansion.

[HUnter_zero 58]

 

Is it all plastic tipped bullets, like the Hornady SST etc, that are the problem, or just the Nosler's?

 

ft

 

 

By definition polymer tip bullets are illegal for shooting deer in the UK, sooner or later it will end up in court. BT's and variants like V-max are neither soft nose or hollow nosed bullets as required by the Deer act.

 

John

[Mr_Logic 5]

Hunter_Zero, we have had this discussion before.Tell you what, you want to see a court case - I have shot deer with numerous polymer tip bullets. All have died cleanly. I admit to this - so bring a private prosecution. I hope you have deep pockets to pay all my costs when you lose.The Deer Act says soft nosed or hollow point, as you say. It does not elaborate on these, which means that it does NOT specifically mean the 'traditional' view of these. It is a legal document and where a term is not defined it must be taken at face value.A polymer tip bullet has:* A plastic tip, which is SOFTER than copper. So a SOFT point then..* a bloody great cavity under the polymer tip, in the nose of the bullet. So that's a hollow nose, then.Where in HunterZeroLand do these bullets not qualify? Whether you consider them the right choice is a matter of opinion, but they most definitely ARE legal.

[flytie 1]

no there are good and bad.MY FINDINGS are,

Vmax, b/tip, blitzkings usually very violent,

sst's are very unpredictable either failing to expand or blowing up.

swifts, interbonds, are stronger but very expensive.

I find it easier to ban all plastic points unless client buying the venison.

Its just easier for me.

I dont deal with gamedealers just butchers and private use so the meat damage is a real issue.

Same for hollow points actually but not many use them and the sierra gamekings are quite controlled expansion.

John, I find your comments very interesting indeed! Much food for thought.

 

I have been using RWS 140gn hollow points, and just occasionally I have one do a huge amount of damage. I think i will use up what i have and try some other types.

 

The SST's i have have just been used for load development so far, and two unfortunate foxes who happened across us as we were setting up our targets. Again I think they will be used and replaced with something else. Probably a soft point, boat tailed jobbie.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Atb, ft

[HUnter_zero 58]

Hunter_Zero, we have had this discussion before.Tell you what, you want to see a court case - I have shot deer with numerous polymer tip bullets. All have died cleanly. I admit to this - so bring a private prosecution.

 

 

Actually, even the manufactures of these bullets openly admit that the bullets are neither soft nose or hollow nose, do you REALLY know better than the manufacturers?

Now let us state facts here and not opinions.

 

Deer act 1991 states :

 

SCHEDULE 2

 

Prohibited firearms and ammunition

 

Firearms

 

1

Any smooth-bore gun. .

2

Any rifle having a calibre of less than .240 inches or a muzzle energy of less than 2,305 joules (1,700 foot pounds). .

3

Any air gun, air rifle or air pistol. .

Ammunition

 

4

Any cartridge for use in a smooth-bore gun. .

5

Any bullet for use in a rifle other than a soft-nosed or hollow-nosed bullet.

 

I made a resent enquiry to Hornady with regards to how THEY the manufacturers would describe their bullets and this is the reply:

 

From: Hornady Manufacturing, Inc [mailto:webmaster@hornady.com]

Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:49 AM

To: tech

Subject: "Technical Inquiries" Contact from John Young

 

 

This is a response sent by John Young using the feedback form on the website. The details of the message follow below:

 

Subject: Technical Inquiries

First Name: John

Last Name: *****

Email: mr.*******

Address1: *********

Address2: *********

City: *********

State: pontypridd

Zip: ********

Phone: *********

Comments:

Hi, just wondering if you could advise me if you class your V-max bullets as either soft nose or hollow nose bullets?

 

Kind regards

 

John

 

John, They are neither. They are polymer tipped fragmenting bullets. Thanks

 

 

Okay these are the facts, not opinions. Please supply FACTS to the contrary If you really wish to bring a test case, I'll link this page to your local police force?

 

 

John

[Mr_Logic 5]

Your email to Hornady proves nothing - you have asked a loaded question. You miss the point entirely - I agree completely that in shooting terminology, a polymer tip is neither a soft nosed or hollow nosed bullet. The POINT, and this is FACT, is that we are talking legal definitions here.

 

Nowhere in the Act does it define what it means by the term Soft-nosed or hollow-nosed. Consequently, with no definition, they must be taken literally. Therefore, the question you must ask is - does a polymer tip have a soft or hollow nose. As I have pointed out before, a polymer tip is technically a soft nose - polymer is softer than the copper jacket. Otherwise how do you define a soft-nose for the law? It doesn't say exposed lead core, or deal with the softness of lead, or anything like that.

 

In addition, there is a hollow cavity under the polymer tip, which by definition is a hollow nose. Does the bullet fit the typical shooting definition of a hollowpoint? No it doesn't, which is why Hornady have said what they've said. Ask them about the legality of their SST bullets for shooting deer in the UK, see what they say about that one...

 

You need to examine why the law says what it says, too - it's to stop people using FMJ on these animals, which is definitely inhumane. FMJ is clearly neither, since the point is hard copper and the lead extends all the way up to that point. The definition is left vague to cover all types of expanding ammunition, which they intend to be used.

 

I know you don't like the use of this type of bullet, that is your opinion and your right. But please don't try to make out that the rest of us are criminals because of your opinion. We aren't, and that really is a fact.