English Bull's

[hogdog 61]

I genuinely didn't know what you meant...mainly becaause I didn't know whether you were talking about the Bull Terrier in general or this particular line. The Bull Terrier was never originally bred as a fighting dog and the old tales of Puss have been largely discredited. They were certainly capable of it and crosses of them made some of the best fighting dogs of all time but to breed them for that (morality and legality aside) would be a departure from their original purpose and also pretty pointless...selective breeding for that would end up with you breeding Pit Bull type Bull and Terriers, you might as well save yourself the bother and buy a Pit Bull.

 

Bull Terriers (the good ones anyway) are distinct in character and ability from the Pit based Bull and Terriers and that's why they have a far more extensive history in hunting and gaurding.

[Pops 19]

ALL bull & terriers were invented for matching. it just so happened that the same speed, grit & agility made them good in the rat pits & badger baits. Hinks may well have invented his cross for the show ring but plenty were pitted and did well. as for hunting well the Ozzies used EBT for a long time until they got good APBTs. then they switched in droves for a reason.

as a whole bull & terriers have been & still are crap for guard dogs. yeah there are exceptions that excelled at it but THEY ARE THE EXCEPTIONS. you need more bulldog or mastiff to CONSISTANTLY get good guards.

there just aren't enough well built EBTs for work. i would gladly give your dog & the thunderrock dogs a go if i could pick one up w/o taking out a second mortgage for price, shipping etc.

[Bullcat 12]

Father Bull Terrier x Greyhound

 

Mother Staghound(Lurcher) x Whippet

 

Pup only 14 weeks old in this pic.

 

[Gitano 17]

Pops hit the nail on the head for me-the second mortgage quip. I can't justify paying big bucks when I can just pick up a pit cross from the local pound that'll get all jobs done; however, I would still be interested in seeing how any working EBT lines are going because they look a nice dog, these more athletic types.

[hogdog 61]

You can't compare an APBT cross to an Ingles Bull, ask anyone that owns one. These dogs have been bred for generations as hunting and sporting dogs and it shows. It's like saying don't buy a well bred Patterdale from proven lines when there are plenty of Yorkshire Terrier crosses in rescue centres that will do the job. You shouldn't make assumptions about the Ingles lines based on what you know of other lines, they are different. If you don't want to pay good money for them then fair enough but to say an APBT cross is a fair approximation is just wrong. If you don't know what the differences are between a APBT and an IBT then it might be worth investing in an Ingles Bull and you'll find out. I think you'll be surprised.

 

If you've researched the history of the Bull Terrier then I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that they were either fighting or show dogs. I don't accept either of the two most commonly punted explainations, there are things that discredit both those theories and point towards the Bull terrier being a general purpose sporting and gaurding breed.

Edited August 20, 2010 by hogdog

[pongopalmer 19]

I genuinely didn't know what you meant...mainly becaause I didn't know whether you were talking about the Bull Terrier in general or this particular line. The Bull Terrier was never originally bred as a fighting dog and the old tales of Puss have been largely discredited. They were certainly capable of it and crosses of them made some of the best fighting dogs of all time but to breed them for that (morality and legality aside) would be a departure from their original purpose and also pretty pointless...selective breeding for that would end up with you breeding Pit Bull type Bull and Terriers, you might as well save yourself the bother and buy a Pit Bull.

 

Bull Terriers (the good ones anyway) are distinct in character and ability from the Pit based Bull and Terriers and that's why they have a far more extensive history in hunting and gaurding.

WELL SAID HOGDOG its about time some one stuck up for the EBT coz there are good fit ones out there an obviosley there are unfit ones out there too. am not sayin every EBT will make a working dog but there are good lines out there . there are many dogs from popular working breeds that fail when put out in the field in my opinion ov corse ..........

[pongopalmer 19]

You can't compare an APBT cross to a well bred Ingles Bull, ask anyone that owns one. These dogs have been bred for generations as hunting and sporting dogs and it shows. It's like saying don't buy a well bred Patterdale from proven lines when there are plenty of Yorkshire Terrier crosses in rescue centres that will do the job. You shouldn't make assumptions about the Ingles lines based on what you know of other lines, they are different. If you don't want to pay good money for them then fair enough but to say an APBT cross is a fair approximation is just wrong.

 

If you've really read into the history of the Bull Terrier then I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that they were either fighting or show dogs. There are many opinions on this and I don't accept the two most commonly punted explainations, there are things that point away from both those theories.

[hogdog 61]

Could you tell us a bit more about your Dog please Pongopalmer?

 

He's a great looking Dog, with an unexaggerated head and body type. What's his drive, temperament, health etc like? Any breeding plans for the future? What's his breeding?

 

Same to Samuri, nice looking Dog in your avatar.

Edited August 20, 2010 by hogdog

[pongopalmer 19]

ALL bull & terriers were invented for matching. it just so happened that the same speed, grit & agility made them good in the rat pits & badger baits. Hinks may well have invented his cross for the show ring but plenty were pitted and did well. as for hunting well the Ozzies used EBT for a long time until they got good APBTs. then they switched in droves for a reason.

as a whole bull & terriers have been & still are crap for guard dogs. yeah there are exceptions that excelled at it but THEY ARE THE EXCEPTIONS. you need more bulldog or mastiff to CONSISTANTLY get good guards.

there just aren't enough well built EBTs for work. i would gladly give your dog & the thunderrock dogs a go if i could pick one up w/o taking out a second mortgage for price, shipping etc.

 

i dont no what your EBT are like in the states but for one thing mate my EBT isnt 1 year old yet an makes an excellent guard dog, his hearing an sences are outstanding.. some one only has to come near house or truck or kids even an he wants to eat them , an very capable too ... if u wanna get on a plain an see for ya self your very welcome , :11: av started working him now an he showing alot ov promise

[nobo 1]

IBT are in a different League to the every day show bred bull terrier and well done to him, i have been around many of his BT from his yard, but i am sorry they ant got a patch on the working bred pit bull not from the right stock any way, these dogs have been bred to work and work hard over many many years not just a few generations with the odd good out cross. very nice BT that look a lot like the dogs of old but even them had to be out crossed to the working bull and terrier in the early 1900 by a hunter who had been working his bull terriers in india and was disappoint with the stock back in the UK, dont get me wrong there have been some top working dogs and lines from around the would over the last 100 years but they ant as good as the working pit bull

[hogdog 61]

The trouble is that good working Pit Bulls tend to be very Dog aggressive so make working as a pack tricky if not impossible, especially when they're hyped up. They have comparatively little natural hunting instict, they don't know the meaning of 'let go' and although they apperently have a good nose they tend not to be as willing to use it as an IBT.

 

If you want a wrecking machine with balls of steel and loads of drive then a game bred Pit is what you want.

 

If you want a Dog that can work in a pack, use it's nose without training, have huge natural hunting instinct and will let go when you want it to then the IBT is the way to go.

 

If you want a gaurd Dog then the IBT is also a much better choice.

 

Horses for courses, they're not the same type of Dog.

[nobo 1]

The trouble is that good working Pit Bulls tend to be very Dog aggressive so make working as a pack tricky if not impossible, especially when they're hyped up. They have comparatively little natural hunting instict, they don't know the meaning of 'let go' and although they apperently have a good nose they tend not to be as willing to use it as an IBT.

 

If you want a wrecking machine with balls of steel and loads of drive then a game bred Pit is what you want.

 

If you want a Dog that can work in a pack, use it's nose without training, have huge natural hunting instinct and will let go when you want it to then the IBT is the way to go.

 

If you want a gaurd Dog then the IBT is also a much better choice.

 

Horses for courses, they're not the same type of Dog.

i have been around and trained both, some pits mite not work in a pack some can, it is [bANNED TEXT] you put in to your dog from the very start, as for a gaurd or a PP dog give me a pit bull from the right stock, i have trained both for this and the pit bull shits all over the them,

[hogdog 61]

I'd rather work with a Dog's natural instincts than having to work against them. I wouldn't buy a Pit and attempt to train it not to be Dog aggresive, that's like buying a Spaniel and training it not to sniff.

[nobo 1]

I'd rather work with a Dog's natural instincts than having to work against them. I wouldn't buy a Pit and attempt to train it not to be Dog aggresive, that's like buying a Spaniel and training it not to sniff.

not every pit bull is kill crazy, have you ever been around a pit bull and i dont mien shit bulls. pit bull are used as a holding dog as well as a pit fighter. so if you did have a pit bull or a dog aggressive bull terrier are you saying that you would not train it to be a good dog, your boy is still young he might not show dog aggression at the moment but dont forget he is a bull and terrier that is bred from spunky stock.

[ERYRI 1]

If you want a wrecking machine with balls of steel and loads of drive then a game bred Pit is what you want.

 

sorry but have to disagree. i think people stick to what they know because they have the animal to do the job. and there is nothing wrong with that at all.

 

i was brought up with show bred ebt's and have seen the odd one with very high prey drive and temper. these dogs showed massive pottential in the field. although i dont like the look of the show dogs today i think there are many out there with the mentality to work. but sadly these dogs main purpose now is to be lead around a ring which obviously has made less dogs with the potential to work.

 

heres a link to see a ebt which i think would make a worker.