shotgun

[Lab 10,979]

Can anyone tell me for certain what the rule is on this......................If i take a friend on my land to shoot(standing beside me) and he uses my gun but he does not have a license have i broken the law. This has always been my understanding but i have been recently told that i am doing wrong. Is it the same all over the UK? Cheers.

[watchman 256]

not 100% mate but i think you have to be in the presense of the land owner for him to be able to shoot,that being you,i can see no problem

Edited February 22, 2010 by watchman

[longdog13 36]

I've always shot using a friends gun under the impression that it was allowed on a day out?

Be interesting to find out for sure........................

[spade 224]

There must be sime rule to allow shooting without a licence. Thinking of the have a go clay shoots at country fairs etc.

[Colster 1]

This was covered on another forum not long ago: If you are the owner or occupier of the land then you can lend a gun (including FAC) to a non-license holder to use while in your presence (ie within sight and sound of them)

 

Owner is obvious but occupier extends to include tenant farmers and anyone with shooting rights on the land so it doesn't have to be your land, you just need permission to shoot from the landowner. It would be a worthwhile courtesy in cases when you're not the landowner to have their permission to bring others onto their land to shoot but that's between you and the landowner, it's not covered by law.

[Lab 10,979]

This was covered on another forum not long ago: If you are the owner or occupier of the land then you can lend a gun (including FAC) to a non-license holder to use while in your presence (ie within sight and sound of them)

 

Owner is obvious but occupier extends to include tenant farmers and anyone with shooting rights on the land so it doesn't have to be your land, you just need permission to shoot from the landowner. It would be a worthwhile courtesy in cases when you're not the landowner to have their permission to bring others onto their land to shoot but that's between you and the landowner, it's not covered by law.

Thats the post i was hoping to see, thanks. I can now go back and tell the boy who told me i was in the wrong that he is slavering sh**e.

[SportingShooter 0]

This was covered on another forum not long ago: If you are the owner or occupier of the land then you can lend a gun (including FAC) to a non-license holder to use while in your presence (ie within sight and sound of them)

 

Owner is obvious but occupier extends to include tenant farmers and anyone with shooting rights on the land so it doesn't have to be your land, you just need permission to shoot from the landowner. It would be a worthwhile courtesy in cases when you're not the landowner to have their permission to bring others onto their land to shoot but that's between you and the landowner, it's not covered by law.

 

Well put

[Deker 3,478]

THE RULES!!!!

 

 

 

Probably a bit too much information here, also covers Rifles, but 1968 Firearms Act and Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to the Police, bit of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 as well!!

 

If in any doubt..COPY/EDIT and carry with you!!

 

ATB!!

 

 

 

 

EXEMPTIONS FROM THE REQUIREMENT TO HOLD A CERTIFICATE

 

1968 Firearms Act

 

Shot guns

6.14 Section 11(5) of the 1968 Act allows

an individual, without holding a shot gun

certificate, to borrow a shot gun from the

occupier of private premises and use it on

those premises in the occupier’s presence.

The presence of the occupier is normally

taken to mean within sight and earshot of the

individual borrowing the firearm. The term

“occupier†is not defined in the Firearms

Acts, nor has a Court clarified its meaning.

However, the Firearms Consultative

Committee in their 5th Annual report

recommended that the provisions of section

27 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981

be adopted. This states that ‘“occupier†in

relation to any land, other than the foreshore,

includes any person having any right of

hunting, shooting, fishing or taking game or

fish’. In the absence of any firm definition

for firearms purposes, it is suggested that

each chief officer of police may wish to make

use of this definition. On some occasions

though, where the status of a certificate

holder acting as an occupier is an issue, the

chief officer may need to consider seeking

the advice of counsel. Section 57(4) provides

that “premises†shall include any land. The

borrower may be of any age but an offence

may be committed under section 22(3) if a

minor under the age of 15 is not supervised

by a person over 21 years of age.

 

 

6.15 Similarly, section 11(6) of the 1968 Act

allows an individual, without holding a shot

gun certificate, to use a shot gun at a time

and place approved for shooting at artificial

targets by the chief officer of police for the

area in which that place is situated. As the

approval of such time and place is prescribed

by law and there may be duty of care issues

involved, chief officers may wish not only

to satisfy themselves that such events are

properly conducted and supervised, but also

to establish that there are no public safety

issues involved. When an exemption is

granted, the chief officer should advise

the organiser that they are responsible for

ensuring, so far as is practicable, that

adequate precautions are taken for the safety

of the participants and any spectators. Shoots

at which participants hold certificates do not

require an exemption under section 11(6).

Organisers operating in conjunction with

business, such as corporate entertainment,

will have additional responsibilities under

the Health and Safety at Work Act.

 

 

Borrowed rifles on private premises

6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a

person to borrow a rifle from the occupier

of private premises and to use it on those

premises in the presence of either the

occupier or their servant without holding a

firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. It

should be noted that this gives slightly more

flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than

is permissible with the use of a shot gun

as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the

borrowed rifle can also be used in the

presence of the servant of the occupier.

However, the occupier and/or their servant

must hold a firearm certificate in respect of

the firearm being used, and the borrower,

who must be accompanied by the certificate

holder (whether it is the occupier or their

servant), must comply with the conditions

of the certificate. These may include a

safekeeping requirement and, in some cases,

territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the

1968 Act defines “premises†as including any

land. The effect of the provision is to allow

a person visiting a private estate to borrow

and use a rifle without a certificate. The

exemption does not extend to persons under

the age of 17 or to other types of firearm.

There is no notification required on the

loan of a firearm under these circumstances.

A borrowed rifle should not be specifically

identified as such on a “keeper’s†or

“landowner’s†firearm certificate. The term

“in the presence of†is not defined in law

but is generally interpreted as being within

sight and earshot.

6.17 Section 16(2) of the 1988 Act provides

for a person borrowing a rifle in accordance

with section 16(1) of the 1988 Act to

purchase or acquire ammunition for use in

the rifle, and to have it in their possession

during the period for which the rifle is

borrowed, without holding a certificate. The

borrower’s possession of the ammunition

must comply with the conditions on the

certificate of the person in whose presence

they are and the amount of ammunition

borrowed must not exceed that which the

certificate holder is authorised to have in

their possession at that time. It should be

noted that the borrower may only take

possession of the ammunition during the

period of the loan of the rifle at which time

they will be in the presence of the certificate

holder. If the persons selling or handing

over the ammunition are not certificate

holders, it may be necessary for them to

see the certificate to satisfy themselves that

the terms of this section have been met and

that the amount of ammunition the borrower

wishes to acquire is no greater than that

which the certificate holder is authorised

to possess. However, the details of the

transaction need not be recorded on

the certificate.

[Colster 1]

Thats the post i was hoping to see, thanks. I can now go back and tell the boy who told me i was in the wrong that he is slavering sh**e.

 

Happy to help mate, if he wants convincing tell him to have a look at the 1968 and 1988 Firearms Acts with particular regard to the section on EXEMPTIONS FROM THE REQUIREMENT TO HOLD A CERTIFICATE, it's all in there.

 

6.14 Section 11(5) of the 1968 Act allows

an individual, without holding a shot gun

certificate, to borrow a shot gun from the

occupier of private premises and use it on

those premises in the occupiers presence.

The presence of the occupier is normally

taken to mean within sight and earshot of the

individual borrowing the firearm.

 

Borrowed rifles on private premises

6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a

person to borrow a rifle from the occupier

of private premises and to use it on those

premises in the presence of either the

occupier or their servant without holding a

firearm certificate in respect of that rifle

 

Couldn't find the post before but found it now, that should shut him up!

 

The definition of occupier is taken from the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, in the firearms act it suggests FLO's could adopt this definition

 

occupier in

relation to any land, other than the foreshore,

includes any person having any right of

hunting, shooting, fishing or taking game or

fish.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Colster

[Colster 1]

THE RULES!!!!

 

 

 

Probably a bit too much information here, also covers Rifles, but 1968 Firearms Act and Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to the Police, bit of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 as well!!

 

If in any doubt..COPY/EDIT and carry with you!!

 

ATB!!

 

Synchronised posting!

 

Anyone want to hazard a wild guess at which knowledgeable forum member sorted me out on the post on another forum when this came up.

 

Deker is a legend, trust what he says!

[Fidgety 8]

http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/HO-Firearms-Guidance.html

 

A very good read....

[Deker 3,478]

THE RULES!!!!

 

 

 

Probably a bit too much information here, also covers Rifles, but 1968 Firearms Act and Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to the Police, bit of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 as well!!

 

If in any doubt..COPY/EDIT and carry with you!!

 

ATB!!

 

Synchronised posting!

 

Anyone want to hazard a wild guess at which knowledgeable forum member sorted me out on the post on another forum when this came up.

 

Deker is a legend, trust what he says!

 

 

You are a Gentleman

[Deker 3,478]

http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/operational-policing/HO-Firearms-Guidance.html

 

A very good read....

 

 

It may well seem sad to many, but depending how far you want to get into this malarkey Fidgety is right...this is fascinating stuff, and will cause many surprises if you can find the time to read it.....

 

Available from HMSO, about £16-£18 I think, or you can down load/print on line (may I suggest you try and find a quiet time at work).......I never said that!!!!!......Over 200 pages last time I looked!!

[SportingShooter 0]

The definition of "Occupier" is, as you all say, meant to be that in Sect 27, WCA. But I've encountered three FEO's, in two different police forces, who have told me that they still stick to the old "Estate Condition" wording on Occupier and not that of Sec. 27. Which is both farcical and potentially dangerous to the health of your FAC

[Lab 10,979]

THE RULES!!!!

 

 

 

Probably a bit too much information here, also covers Rifles, but 1968 Firearms Act and Home Office Firearms Law Guidance to the Police, bit of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 as well!!

 

If in any doubt..COPY/EDIT and carry with you!!

 

ATB!!

 

 

 

 

EXEMPTIONS FROM THE REQUIREMENT TO HOLD A CERTIFICATE

 

1968 Firearms Act

 

Shot guns

6.14 Section 11(5) of the 1968 Act allows

an individual, without holding a shot gun

certificate, to borrow a shot gun from the

occupier of private premises and use it on

those premises in the occupier’s presence.

The presence of the occupier is normally

taken to mean within sight and earshot of the

individual borrowing the firearm. The term

“occupier†is not defined in the Firearms

Acts, nor has a Court clarified its meaning.

However, the Firearms Consultative

Committee in their 5th Annual report

recommended that the provisions of section

27 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981

be adopted. This states that ‘“occupier†in

relation to any land, other than the foreshore,

includes any person having any right of

hunting, shooting, fishing or taking game or

fish’. In the absence of any firm definition

for firearms purposes, it is suggested that

each chief officer of police may wish to make

use of this definition. On some occasions

though, where the status of a certificate

holder acting as an occupier is an issue, the

chief officer may need to consider seeking

the advice of counsel. Section 57(4) provides

that “premises†shall include any land. The

borrower may be of any age but an offence

may be committed under section 22(3) if a

minor under the age of 15 is not supervised

by a person over 21 years of age.

 

 

6.15 Similarly, section 11(6) of the 1968 Act

allows an individual, without holding a shot

gun certificate, to use a shot gun at a time

and place approved for shooting at artificial

targets by the chief officer of police for the

area in which that place is situated. As the

approval of such time and place is prescribed

by law and there may be duty of care issues

involved, chief officers may wish not only

to satisfy themselves that such events are

properly conducted and supervised, but also

to establish that there are no public safety

issues involved. When an exemption is

granted, the chief officer should advise

the organiser that they are responsible for

ensuring, so far as is practicable, that

adequate precautions are taken for the safety

of the participants and any spectators. Shoots

at which participants hold certificates do not

require an exemption under section 11(6).

Organisers operating in conjunction with

business, such as corporate entertainment,

will have additional responsibilities under

the Health and Safety at Work Act.

 

 

Borrowed rifles on private premises

6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a

person to borrow a rifle from the occupier

of private premises and to use it on those

premises in the presence of either the

occupier or their servant without holding a

firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. It

should be noted that this gives slightly more

flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than

is permissible with the use of a shot gun

as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the

borrowed rifle can also be used in the

presence of the servant of the occupier.

However, the occupier and/or their servant

must hold a firearm certificate in respect of

the firearm being used, and the borrower,

who must be accompanied by the certificate

holder (whether it is the occupier or their

servant), must comply with the conditions

of the certificate. These may include a

safekeeping requirement and, in some cases,

territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the

1968 Act defines “premises†as including any

land. The effect of the provision is to allow

a person visiting a private estate to borrow

and use a rifle without a certificate. The

exemption does not extend to persons under

the age of 17 or to other types of firearm.

There is no notification required on the

loan of a firearm under these circumstances.

A borrowed rifle should not be specifically

identified as such on a “keeper’s†or

“landowner’s†firearm certificate. The term

“in the presence of†is not defined in law

but is generally interpreted as being within

sight and earshot.

6.17 Section 16(2) of the 1988 Act provides

for a person borrowing a rifle in accordance

with section 16(1) of the 1988 Act to

purchase or acquire ammunition for use in

the rifle, and to have it in their possession

during the period for which the rifle is

borrowed, without holding a certificate. The

borrower’s possession of the ammunition

must comply with the conditions on the

certificate of the person in whose presence

they are and the amount of ammunition

borrowed must not exceed that which the

certificate holder is authorised to have in

their possession at that time. It should be

noted that the borrower may only take

possession of the ammunition during the

period of the loan of the rifle at which time

they will be in the presence of the certificate

holder. If the persons selling or handing

over the ammunition are not certificate

holders, it may be necessary for them to

see the certificate to satisfy themselves that

the terms of this section have been met and

that the amount of ammunition the borrower

wishes to acquire is no greater than that

which the certificate holder is authorised

to possess. However, the details of the

transaction need not be recorded on

the certificate.

Cheers mate, al take a copy of that a post it through his door.