parsons

[Simoman 110]

hello i was just wantin 2 know [bANNED TEXT] is the best terrier 2 have now days cos sale a bedlington bitcth about 2 month ago at the age 22 month and cos she dint [bANNED TEXT] 2 work for me and excellent patterdale cross lakeland bitch age 2 years and [bANNED TEXT] good bitch she was. just did not like my son and lass

 

 

I believe this cyrptic message is the plot for the Davinci code 2

[PBurns 9]

And post somewhere else, as this thread is not whatever it is you are trying to talk about. Maybe start a new thread or topic.

 

P

[Guest It's Me!]

I like to add my thoughts to this topic about (Parson) Russell Terriers. My English is not so good so I hope you forgive my spelling mistakes (I’m Dutch).

 

In 1995 I saw a man on the beach playing with his dog. When I got home I looked up what kind of breed the dog was because I thought that breed would fit perfectly with my husband.

The book said it was a Jack Russell Terrier. A few weeks later I read a advertisement in an hunting magazine; Jack Russell Terriers for sale. We went to the breeder and bought our first bitch. We became members of the Jack Russell Club and participated in all activities they offered. At our first show the judge told us; “I would like to see the bitch shorter in legsâ€, “she is a Parson go to the Dutch Kennel Club and get a new pedigreeâ€. So we did…

 

In the years that followed we read every word we could find about Russell Terriers, collecting pedigrees, entered shows, entered working trials, visited breeders etc. etc. We are busy with Russell’s 24/7…

At the moment we own (or are owned  ) 9 Parson Russell Terriers. We try to “work†as much as possible with our dogs. Only one of the dogs I bred is living with someone that is actually hunting fox and badgers. We live in a small country with lots of laws, rules and regulations which almost make it impossible to hunt with dogs.

 

The few people over here who really dig with their terriers look down at us because we have pedigree stock. The show people (mostly breeders) look down at us because we want to breed and show dogs that have the original character and conformation to hunt.

 

Whatever name given; Parson Russell, Parson Jack Russell, Russell Terrier…. I want to breed a multi purpose terrier. Able to work (but when that isn’t possible, good for terrier racing, agility, fly ball), with good conformation, healthy AND a family dog….

 

Tell me… Am I doing wrong? Am I ruining the breed???

 

Jolanda

[Guest mucker]

Whatever name given; Parson Russell, Parson Jack Russell, Russell Terrier…. I want to breed a multi purpose terrier. Able to work (but when that isn’t possible, good for terrier racing, agility, fly ball), with good conformation, healthy AND a family dog….

 

Tell me… Am I doing wrong? Am I ruining the breed???

 

Jolanda

you probably wont ruin the breed if enough people out there stick to working dogs and stay the f**k away from you :11: .

you do what you want but the shower of shite you have in your kennels should in no way represent working terriers or be sold as,there something else regardless of looks and paperwork.

and you cant figure out why proper working dog folk look down there nose at you.

[Guest It's Me!]

you probably wont ruin the breed if enough people out there stick to working dogs and stay the f**k away from you .

you do what you want but the shower of shite you have in your kennels should in no way represent working terriers or be sold as,there something else regardless of looks and paperwork.

and you cant figure out why proper working dog folk look down there nose at you.

 

I don't have a problem with people buying somewhere else when they buy from people that only breed for hunting. I do have a problem with people that want a dog just for show. I think it's not fair to the dog.

 

And I don't understand why the "proper working people" are looking down on my dogs because they have the same ancestors as their own. They can look down on me for whatever reason, I do'nt care a bit...

 

Jolanda

[Guest mucker]

And I don't understand why the "proper working people" are looking down on my dogs because they have the same ancestors as their own. They can look down on me for whatever reason, I do'nt care a bit...

 

Jolanda

i heard all race horses (as we know them) go right back to 3 or 4 sires...

[Guest It's Me!]

 

And I don't understand why the "proper working people" are looking down on my dogs because they have the same ancestors as their own. They can look down on me for whatever reason, I do'nt care a bit...

 

Jolanda

i heard all race horses (as we know them) go right back to 3 or 4 sires...

 

Some are good racing horses and some of them are not... so...?

[Guest mucker]

what i mean is ancestors dont mean nothing unless each one did what it was bred to do.. right up to parents of the litter your flogging.

flyball,

[PBurns 9]

The Parson Terrier is a dog bred in a closed registry, and the history of closed canine registies is that they tend to result in pretty high coefficients of inbreeding (COI) and a marked decline in performance, fecundity and health. In short, Kennel Club dogs tend to go to shit in time.

 

As far as I know, no performance breed of animal (not racing greyhounds, pulling sled dogs, working border collies, or working terriers) is bred in a closed registry, and that is certainly true of race horses (your chosen example) where Coefficients of Inbreeding appear on the race forms and any animal with a number over 5% is a horse you do not want to be betting on.

 

For more on this see "Inbred Thinking" at >> http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2006/...d-thinking.html

 

 

Patrick

[Guest It's Me!]

Whatever name given; Parson Russell, Parson Jack Russell, Russell Terrier…. I want to breed a multi purpose terrier. Able to work (but when that isn’t possible, good for terrier racing, agility, fly ball), with good conformation, healthy AND a family dog….

 

Tell me… Am I doing wrong? Am I ruining the breed???

 

@Patrick, this is my question. It is not about inbreeding....

 

Jolanda

[PBurns 9]

If you sanction putting any working dog like a Jack Russell into a closed registry, you are ruining the breed.

 

So YES, you are helping to ruin the breed. That's as straight as it can be said. Yes, yes, yes.

 

Read the entire article at the link previously given to find out why .... and why your race horse example is perfect .... and why no performance breed of dog (or cow or chicken) is in a closed registry.

 

I realize that when you joined the Kennel Club and followed the Kennel Club "breed book" advice you were not intending to help ruin the breed. An accidental shooting kills same as an intentional one, however. The bottom line is that a working breed cannot be evaluated without working it to the work it is supposed to do, and a closed registry invariably harms the health and working abilitites of a performance animal. This is true statement for all performance breeds everywhere, which is why Iditarod dogs are not Kennel Club dogs, and why track-winning greyhounds are not Kennel Club dogs. And it is why most working terriers are not Kennel Club dogs.

 

I really do not know why the Kennel Club needs more breeds. It had hundreds of breeds of dogs that could do fly ball or frisbee or go-to-ground or agility, or what have you. The working terrier world only asks that the Kennel Club stop pulling working breeds on to their roles.

 

 

Patrick

[Guest It's Me!]

The only thing our Kennel Club in Holland does for me is registrate and sending me a pedigree. They have nothing to do with my breeding or anything else I want with/for my dogs.

 

By the way your new Russell from Thornbush is non registrated?

 

Jolanda

[valerio 32]

you are not right mr Burns,most of the hunting dogs used around the world are from registered breeds,I'll give you an exemple,here in Italy every year the kennell club register more than 20.000 English Setters and I think 95% are used for hunting,more than 7.000 Italian Shenthounds and 99% are used for hunting hares.I ve used for years Kc BRIQUET GRIFFON VANDEEN as boarshounds and they served me well as the Xbreeds I've now.

can you think all this dogs are shit?Or are all their owners stupid?I dont think so

Edited October 26, 2006 by valerio

[Guest Vermindog]

Hallo everyone, I have just arrived on this board, and in general agree with most everything that Patrick has said, and also a lot of things that others have said.Working terriers of any colour or creed can be found if you know where to look, that is not a problem for me ( I actually work the bitch that Jolanda was talking about) what does get my paddy up is people slagging well known terriermen (like Chapman) off, what he has meant to the J.R. world and his breeding none of you could hope to even come anywhere near, that he has not worked in 15 years is neither hear nor there, and that he lives by selling his dogs is not a crime, so all I can assume is because he has written two books, those of you who slag him, must be in envy of him, I don,t hear you slagging Mr Burns, why? he also has written an exellant book on American Working Terriers, but OK each to his own. I also own two terriers bred by E.Chapman, which he kindly gave to me, one of these is used on Wild Boar which although it is not the traditional terrier work ( although Lucas did write about it at the begining of the last centuary) he has taken to it like a duck to water and along with another dog of mine (% foxwarren breeding) and 3 Patterdales of one of my friends, they are every bit as good as any D.J.T. The other Foxwarren dog is just 18 months and will be started this winter here in Holland ,Germany and Belgium. on fox.

Edited October 26, 2006 by Vermindog

[Guest Stevie D]

Patrick, some of the best lines of digging terriers in the country are heavily inbred, but they are bred for ABILITY, not show points. It is quite feasible to inbreed many generations of a line if people are prepared to cull. Therein lies the problem. not many breeders will cull inferior specimens and, in the case of closed registries, these specimens are left to continue breeding inferior stock. A small time breeder of WORKING terriers can inbreed, run on pups, keep the best/healthiest and cull the rest. he can then test what has been kept and IF they are up to the job, continue the line. I don't have the stomach for culling myself but it works.

 

Stevie