saluki

[Guest Mass_G3nocide]

Thanks im not to bad with a rifle!.

[Meerihunter 7]

What lines should i look for if i was to buy one?

what kind of money are we talking for a nice pup?

i would love one to run as a lurcher

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hang fire for a for a couple of years and there will be some fresh blooded dogs on the go and hopfully some good outcross litters on the ground. The Kizzy/Pharoh dogs are excellent coursing/hunting dogs there is no doubt about that but there are some health issues mainly growth problems in pups and some auto immune disorders starting to appear in some due to tight breeding.

 

That would be my advise anyway.

give me examples of these ,growth problems ..and auto immune disorders and where you get your information from ,mark ?

 

I have personal experience of both auto-immune disorder and the growth problems in two Shes the Lady X Fairboy bred bitches. The one with growth problems effecting the wrists I returned and exchanged for my Ameerah who now has developed an auto immune disorder triggered by her whelping 3 years ago.

 

2 other Kizzy/pharoh line breed dogs have had the growth problem, I've conversed with the owners and seen the photo's.

 

If you were a member of my board you would of seen the thread regarding these cases.

 

Now these are only the cases we have heard of without doubt there have been other cases we havn't heard about.

 

Dealing with crippled pups like in these cases is no fun I can tell you. With every generation inbred on this line there will be more and more of these problems, the mess most of the showbred dogs are in should be big enough of a warning.

 

I keep salukis for their hunting ability, their durability and their health, these problems surely go against everything a Saluki should be.

[Annie 0]

bst dogs ive saw saluki wise were in the usa some [bANNED TEXT] dogs there and they have the land and game to legaly test them rather than duckin and diving for sport

 

Do they really test them Whin or are they slipping two and three dogs at a time?

 

(On "hare")

 

that's a fair question, single handed

[Annie 0]

What lines should i look for if i was to buy one?

what kind of money are we talking for a nice pup?

i would love one to run as a lurcher

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hang fire for a for a couple of years and there will be some fresh blooded dogs on the go and hopfully some good outcross litters on the ground. The Kizzy/Pharoh dogs are excellent coursing/hunting dogs there is no doubt about that but there are some health issues mainly growth problems in pups and some auto immune disorders starting to appear in some due to tight breeding.

 

That would be my advise anyway.

give me examples of these ,growth problems ..and auto immune disorders and where you get your information from ,mark ?

 

I have personal experience of both auto-immune disorder and the growth problems in two Shes the Lady X Fairboy bred bitches. The one with growth problems effecting the wrists I returned and exchanged for my Ameerah who now has developed an auto immune disorder triggered by her whelping 3 years ago.

 

2 other Kizzy/pharoh line breed dogs have had the growth problem, I've conversed with the owners and seen the photo's.

 

If you were a member of my board you would of seen the thread regarding these cases.

 

Now these are only the cases we have heard of without doubt there have been other cases we havn't heard about.

 

Dealing with crippled pups like in these cases is no fun I can tell you. With every generation inbred on this line there will be more and more of these problems, the mess most of the showbred dogs are in should be big enough of a warning.

 

I keep salukis for their hunting ability, their durability and their health, these problems surely go against everything a Saluki should be.

[riohog 5,701]

What lines should i look for if i was to buy one?

what kind of money are we talking for a nice pup?

i would love one to run as a lurcher

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hang fire for a for a couple of years and there will be some fresh blooded dogs on the go and hopfully some good outcross litters on the ground. The Kizzy/Pharoh dogs are excellent coursing/hunting dogs there is no doubt about that but there are some health issues mainly growth problems in pups and some auto immune disorders starting to appear in some due to tight breeding.

 

That would be my advise anyway.

give me examples of these ,growth problems ..and auto immune disorders and where you get your information from ,mark ?

 

I have personal experience of both auto-immune disorder and the growth problems in two Shes the Lady X Fairboy bred bitches. The one with growth problems effecting the wrists I returned and exchanged for my Ameerah who now has developed an auto immune disorder triggered by her whelping 3 years ago.

 

2 other Kizzy/pharoh line breed dogs have had the growth problem, I've conversed with the owners and seen the photo's.

 

If you were a member of my board you would of seen the thread regarding these cases.

 

Now these are only the cases we have heard of without doubt there have been other cases we havn't heard about.

 

Dealing with crippled pups like in these cases is no fun I can tell you. With every generation inbred on this line there will be more and more of these problems, the mess most of the showbred dogs are in should be big enough of a warning.

 

I keep salukis for their hunting ability, their durability and their health, these problems surely go against everything a Saluki should be.

sounds to me like you got some bsdad luck with your sals glad i didnt get anything from shes the lady x fair boy yes ive seen auto imune not in sals but in a collie x so i know the symptoms and how it develops .and thank you but i dont need to be a member of your ..board if i need to know what is disgussed on there i just ask someone who is ..

[Annie 0]

Mark, name me other litters that have auto immune disorders, we know Kizzy/ Pharoh are massively inter breed but I don't think most of the coursing sals in this country are anything other than that, interbred, as a concerned Saluki owner please tell me where the auto immune disorder is linked to the Kizzy/ Pharoh lines

Edited February 8, 2010 by Annie

[dodger 2,754]

Superb looking dogs on this thread lads and the best of luck with the new blood.

[Fionnfan 2]

I agree that the UK coursing saluki breeding has gotten too tight, completely dominated kizzy/pharoah lines. I don't pretend to be an expert at all, but I've learnt a lot about this subject in the last year, and as a member of Mark's forum I've seen the thread on wrist problems and read arguments about this and it is compelling and worth thinking about. Personally I think it's all been made worse by the overuse of Khan Jihad as a sire. I'm not trying to offend anyone or say Khan wasn't worthy of use at stud but just looking at litters born in the last couple of years the number sired by him really shocked me (good litters I'm not denying, many I would have liked a dog from!) - and most that weren't sired by him were sired by another kizzy/pharaoh bred dog. And that's not even counting the crosses he sired.

 

There's no doubt some wonderful dogs have been created as a result, that's not what I'm disputing, but I can't help thinking where the owners of these last couple of years' litters are going to look when they want to breed from them. So many of the pures their age will be their brothers/sisters by Khan, and if they don't want to breed any tighter than they'll have real difficulty finding fresh blood. We all know about the pedigree breeds that are so damaged due to tight breeding and tiny gene pools, it would be criminal to let the saluki get anywhere near that- but by not looking futher than the nearest kizzy/pharaoh saluki to breed I fear it.

 

Of course we have good coursing salukis of our own, and they are doing the business, but I think sometimes it's possible to think we can't get better when there is room for improvement. Fresh blood will give salukis some real hybrid vigour and help support and keep our UK coursing blood alive, not dominate it, and make an even stronger animal. I'm personally really excited by the new blood and imports starting up, particularly as I hope that when I can finally get my own saluki in a few year's time I may be able to get a pup out of some of these new dogs or their offspring (if I'm lucky enough ) Again all just my honest opinion and I'm not trying to offend, but I think it's good to debate these things, we can learn from each other.

 

Also really love this thread, there are some really stunning dogs on here making me jealous Hope it keeps going!

[whin 463]

ye they do hunt them doubled up at times and threes but when we go a walk one dog the land we hunt doesnt suit one dog to brushy and you can lose sight no big arable land ,just scrub and prairie were the jack rabbit has got the edge ,there some real keen guys and gals over there with money to boot soimport and by in ,when you see good saluks beet the odd good long dog you no there real dogs ,but alot i wouldnt take home with me but then maybe with an expierenced handler they would come on , ye the saluks are good over there ,by any mans standard , saw a dog called tote farlap he chased a jack rabbit for 3 minutes it got in a hole the fucher dug it out , lovly dog he ran over allsorts of terrain and was never lame i have ascrap book with maybe 10 days coursing of pics you can see what dogs can run and whats fireside rugs , but they are keen with high prey drive mg]it out and pulled the jack rabbit out the hole ,now thats what i call keener

[arcticgun 4,548]

Does anyone have any idea what percentage of uk bred saluki are effected in anyway by defects bought on by close breeding?, I wouldn't imagine that there are too mnay litters produced in the uk per year, again anyone have a rough idea.

 

The pup with the wrist problem wasn't from Khan as far as I know, Khan has been possibly the only viable option to use as a stud, as he was on the open market and others are not open to public stud. However he has turned ousome fine offspring. I know of one stud dog that has sired numerous litters, but it has never seen a day in the field but I see pups out of him for sale all of the time on various websites.

 

I don't think the saluki in the uk will ever end up like the shameful states we see in other KC breeds, hopefully people will be put of by the 'fact' saluki's are thick, hard to train, ploddders, stock worriers,and genaraly a pain in the arse, funny to think popular misconceptions about saluki are probaly there saving grace

 

Interesting times ahead..............................

[riohog 5,701]

its not a major problem ,these alledged defects and yes khan stuff is googd without doubt,but remember how khan is bred ....tepe/gawra x kizzy pharoh and dont think for a minuet e an injection of coo blood is the silver bullet , and will cure all,take it from me ,there is alot more sh...t coo blood out there than enough with major problems..

 

kizzy /pharoh ..tepe gawra ,is some of the fastest sal blood you can find anywhare in the world and im sure it will be around for a while yet ,yes there is allways room for inprovement ,it takes time ,could be years of carefull breeding to do this , its a tricky job and no quick fix answers , finding genuine working stock from around the world isnt easy ,and finding good stuff is a fkn nightmare

[whin 463]

spent ten years of coursing now with saluks and you get to see the best ones over by as the jackrabbit is very hard to catch at times lot harder than our hare ,because of the nature of our land ,in southern states ,thye course fortnightly in the comps and the die hards like myselff as much as they can get out hunting , its easy to find out whats the good dogs you get the score cards find out the results and you no by the owners attitutde to the kill and fitness of there dogs if they are good and serous ,im not a mad saluki man and may never own one ,but i do no when i go over by if they can cath a jack rabbit they will catch hares no prob, there will be lots in other countries to i expect

[Sighthound 49]

its not a major problem ,these alledged defects and yes khan stuff is googd without doubt,but remember how khan is bred ....tepe/gawra x kizzy pharoh and dont think for a minuet e an injection of coo blood is the silver bullet , and will cure all,take it from me ,there is alot more sh...t coo blood out there than enough with major problems..

 

kizzy /pharoh ..tepe gawra ,is some of the fastest sal blood you can find anywhare in the world and im sure it will be around for a while yet ,yes there is allways room for inprovement ,it takes time ,could be years of carefull breeding to do this , its a tricky job and no quick fix answers , finding genuine working stock from around the world isnt easy ,and finding good stuff is a fkn nightmare

 

Kizzy/pharoh saluki pup.

Meerihunter also had a pup from similar lines with the same problem

[Flamin'Nora! 50]

what happened to the pup did it have to have surgery to correct it?

[Sighthound 49]

No, pup was ok when I bought him but over a few days and after periods of running about etc the wrists would turn in, he would have a rest and they would be ok again until he run about and the same happened.

After consultation with my vet (a good dog man) I returned him to the breeder.

Sadly when he was around 10 months old he was up for sale again with no mention of the condition