kens black stuff

[goldy 0]

he came from a long line of proven stock . . which really begs another question is a dog not worth using if its not proven when its from a long line of working stock .

 

Definitely it can be worth!

I'm new in Patterdales, but I know a lot APBT-history. A bad worker (from a proven stock) can be a good producer, and a good worker can be a bad producer. If you only breed best to best you will not be satisfied. The line and the producing ability is more important.

 

couldnt agree more with you hagen, most lads with a few years behind them have seen supposed 'super matings'of top class working dogs put to top bitches and yet produce nothing, while other families/studs seem to keep on producing the goods, ie spartacus! also when given to kg spartacus was by and large untested. kg personally told me spartacus went on to do numerous digs upto 4 hours, hardly a quitter in my eyes.

[the_stig 6,614]

he came from a long line of proven stock . . which really begs another question is a dog not worth using if its not proven when its from a long line of working stock .

 

Definitely it can be worth!

I'm new in Patterdales, but I know a lot APBT-history. A bad worker (from a proven stock) can be a good producer, and a good worker can be a bad producer. If you only breed best to best you will not be satisfied. The line and the producing ability is more important.

 

couldnt agree more with you hagen, most lads with a few years behind them have seen supposed 'super matings'of top class working dogs put to top bitches and yet produce nothing, while other families/studs seem to keep on producing the goods, ie spartacus! also when given to kg spartacus was by and large untested. kg personally told me spartacus went on to do numerous digs upto 4 hours, hardly a quitter in my eyes.

the dog was no quitter - he was tested but never to the max - how many top race horses and track dogs are produced from stuff thats never seen a race track ? i produced a team of winning racing pigeons from stock birds that had never raced ..

[goldy 0]

he came from a long line of proven stock . . which really begs another question is a dog not worth using if its not proven when its from a long line of working stock .

 

Definitely it can be worth!

I'm new in Patterdales, but I know a lot APBT-history. A bad worker (from a proven stock) can be a good producer, and a good worker can be a bad producer. If you only breed best to best you will not be satisfied. The line and the producing ability is more important.

 

couldnt agree more with you hagen, most lads with a few years behind them have seen supposed 'super matings'of top class working dogs put to top bitches and yet produce nothing, while other families/studs seem to keep on producing the goods, ie spartacus! also when given to kg spartacus was by and large untested. kg personally told me spartacus went on to do numerous digs upto 4 hours, hardly a quitter in my eyes.

the dog was no quitter - he was tested but never to the max - how many top race horses and track dogs are produced from stuff thats never seen a race track ? i produced a team of winning racing pigeons from stock birds that had never raced ..

 

i produced a team of winning racing pigeons from stock birds that had never raced ...... my point exactly, although i think alot of lads on here will struggle with that

[the_stig 6,614]

lads the point of why breed out of something that isnt special there is lads all over the country that will NEVER EVER OWN a special one and if you do you will be lucky to ever own one again as good. A special dog to different men is a different dog ive seen and owned some good dogs but only ever seen a handfull of special dogs the dogs that will stop and do the job no matter how hard it becomes the ones with the extra gear. The drive of a catterpillar d8 makin a hard situation look easy and taking little grief for doing a job text book style the men who know the job will undertand what im on about those that dont will mock.Just remember one tihg lads put the best to the best and you may just one day get that special one best of luck

personally without starting an argument fmwtc anything thats nothing special isnt worth feeding never mind breeding from,it wouldnt be too bad if the breeders of'nothing special' dogs ran on the litter and filtered out the shit pups from the more promising stuff but usually they all end up on the market,its back to ££ signs.certain people will breed from the shit whats put on the market because it LOOKS GOOD but is that why theres so much rubbish about? im only speaking on behalf of myself and lads ive dug with over the years and still dig with today.regards dm.

theres always been breeders around that breed for looks and ££s . i think the decline in good workers is down to a lot of todays terriermen not having the know how when it comes to breeding , the way terrierwork is comparred to how it was often means dogs arn`t fully tested at the job before being breed from,and most lads now keep themselves to themselves breed tight and breed for thr own use so a lot of terriers never make the open market if you like,and like it or not the lack big name breeders the goulds nuttulls champmans and middletons of this world that bred lines/familys not many lads these days breed or can trace back more than a couple of generations ,weather its show or work some lads wont put the time and effort in that brings the genuine rewards if you want instant sucess someone will always be thr to take your hard earned ££s of you .. Edited February 1, 2010 by the_stig

[the_stig 6,614]

he came from a long line of proven stock . . which really begs another question is a dog not worth using if its not proven when its from a long line of working stock .

 

Definitely it can be worth!

I'm new in Patterdales, but I know a lot APBT-history. A bad worker (from a proven stock) can be a good producer, and a good worker can be a bad producer. If you only breed best to best you will not be satisfied. The line and the producing ability is more important.

 

couldnt agree more with you hagen, most lads with a few years behind them have seen supposed 'super matings'of top class working dogs put to top bitches and yet produce nothing, while other families/studs seem to keep on producing the goods, ie spartacus! also when given to kg spartacus was by and large untested. kg personally told me spartacus went on to do numerous digs upto 4 hours, hardly a quitter in my eyes.

the dog was no quitter - he was tested but never to the max - how many top race horses and track dogs are produced from stuff thats never seen a race track ? i produced a team of winning racing pigeons from stock birds that had never raced ..

 

i produced a team of winning racing pigeons from stock birds that had never raced ...... my point exactly, although i think alot of lads on here will struggle with that

thats why i asked in the first place ....

[fmwtc 12]

lads the point of why breed out of something that isnt special there is lads all over the country that will NEVER EVER OWN a special one and if you do you will be lucky to ever own one again as good. A special dog to different men is a different dog ive seen and owned some good dogs but only ever seen a handfull of special dogs the dogs that will stop and do the job no matter how hard it becomes the ones with the extra gear. The drive of a catterpillar d8 makin a hard situation look easy and taking little grief for doing a job text book style the men who know the job will undertand what im on about those that dont will mock.Just remember one tihg lads put the best to the best and you may just one day get that special one best of luck

personally without starting an argument fmwtc anything thats nothing special isnt worth feeding never mind breeding from,it wouldnt be too bad if the breeders of'nothing special' dogs ran on the litter and filtered out the shit pups from the more promising stuff but usually they all end up on the market,its back to ££ signs.certain people will breed from the shit whats put on the market because it LOOKS GOOD but is that why theres so much rubbish about? im only speaking on behalf of myself and lads ive dug with over the years and still dig with today.regards dm.

so i take it you have a kennel full of special dogs and your mates too in order for you to have a litter once a year at least because if you are serious about digging then you will need too at least have one litter a yr in order to keep up the work rate.like i have stated before speaking from personal experience this is some feat to own one special one in your life time some lads are lucky and they have a few speak to the likes of dr and others men that have been in the game longer than some have been alive, that comment on threads like this ask them how many good dogs they have had they will tell you plenty but what about special dogs they will answer very few.lads im not in favour of anyone breeding for cash and i dont condone it if thats the right word most men will never sell pups ever, favouring to pass them through decent lads and pts the rest.the dogs of drs and some of the other men i have seen work have been a far cry from show winners but who cares the only thing they will see is work take a look at the cmw see the men that are winning the shows there the ones spoiling it for cash not these men sorry if you or anyone feels that i have insulted them or there line of terrier i am sorry but i have just joined this forum and all i see page after page is folk slagging each other off and men they have little knowledge of jason powell got it last week id be certian brian nuttall will of had it and others too some deserve a bit of stick but some certainly dont

Edited February 1, 2010 by fmwtc

[phantomflanflinger 24]

WISH I HAD THE PATENT ON KEN GOULDS NAME ££££, for someone who's a so called peddler his terriers are still sought after , nuttall,middleton, etc peddlers just terrier men who filled a market , if you don't want a pup of them don't buy a pup , never seen an advert of kg saying 100% digging dogs for sale , how many on here passing comment on the man have even met him, or dug to or owned one of his pups, yes they have made a few bob out of terriers good luck to them ,you pays your money you take your chance , there is still good terriers about you just need to know who has them

[DOC MARTIN 17]

lads the point of why breed out of something that isnt special there is lads all over the country that will NEVER EVER OWN a special one and if you do you will be lucky to ever own one again as good. A special dog to different men is a different dog ive seen and owned some good dogs but only ever seen a handfull of special dogs the dogs that will stop and do the job no matter how hard it becomes the ones with the extra gear. The drive of a catterpillar d8 makin a hard situation look easy and taking little grief for doing a job text book style the men who know the job will undertand what im on about those that dont will mock.Just remember one tihg lads put the best to the best and you may just one day get that special one best of luck

personally without starting an argument fmwtc anything thats nothing special isnt worth feeding never mind breeding from,it wouldnt be too bad if the breeders of'nothing special' dogs ran on the litter and filtered out the shit pups from the more promising stuff but usually they all end up on the market,its back to ££ signs.certain people will breed from the shit whats put on the market because it LOOKS GOOD but is that why theres so much rubbish about? im only speaking on behalf of myself and lads ive dug with over the years and still dig with today.regards dm.

so i take it you have a kennel full of special dogs and your mates too in order for you to have a litter once a year at least because if you are serious about digging then you will need too at least have one litter a yr in order to keep up the work rate.like i have stated before speaking from personal experience this is some feat to own one special one in your life time some lads are lucky and they have a few speak to the likes of dr and others men that have been in the game longer than some have been alive, that comment on threads like this ask them how many good dogs they have had they will tell you plenty but what about special dogs they will answer very few.lads im not in favour of anyone breeding for cash and i dont condone it if thats the right word most men will never sell pups ever, favouring to pass them through decent lads and pts the rest.the dogs of drs and some of the other men i have seen work have been a far cry from show winners but who cares the only thing they will see is work take a look at the cmw see the men that are winning the shows there the ones spoiling it for cash not these men sorry if you or anyone feels that i have insulted them or there line of terrier i am sorry but i have just joined this forum and all i see page after page is folk slagging each other off and men they have little knowledge of jason powell got it last week id be certian brian nuttall will of had it and others too some deserve a bit of stick but some certainly dont

Read what i said before you start judging what i have and do.I replied to you about dogs what are nothing special not SPECIAL. What i have do what i ask of them,what i breed i give to lads i know will give them a working life, if they dont make the grade there history, we breed amongst our own PROVEN stock.Names mean f**k all to us as long as they work,not like you and your dr fanclub,as for cmw heard it all before.ps whats this shit mean

[Hagen 11]

I think a breeder with a big kennel and many dogs has better requirements to breed successful, than a man who breeds only a few in his life. But it is very important for him, to have the feedback of the hunters who work with them. Without that he will never know which dog produced what kind of characteristics to the offspring, and without this knowledge he is not able to make a good breeding plan. If he give the puppies to families as pets or for show, he will never know how they work, and he has bred for nothing.

Most well known APBT-breeders only breed and don't work the dogs (or only a little).

The guys who train and work them are talented specialists in training and working dogs. And the breeders have the knowledge of genetic and the talent in breeding. So they have a perfect symbiosis.

Big kennel breeders and the guys who work the dogs, don't have to be enemies. Together they are able to bring a line to the top.

 

Just my 50cents

[DOC MARTIN 17]

I think a breeder with a big kennel and many dogs has better requirements to breed successful, than a man who breeds only a few in his life. But it is very important for him, to have the feedback of the hunters who work with them. Without that he will never know which dog produced what kind of characteristics to the offspring, and without this knowledge he is not able to make a good breeding plan. If he give the puppies to families as pets or for show, he will never know how they work, and he has bred for nothing.

Most well known APBT-breeders only breed and don't work the dogs (or only a little).

The guys who train and work them are talented specialists in training and working dogs. And the breeders have the knowledge of genetic and the talent in breeding. So they have a perfect symbiosis.

Big kennel breeders and the guys who work the dogs, don't have to be enemies. Together they are able to bring a line to the top.

 

Just my 50cents

Fair comment Hagen.

[antsa 40]

well ive only met ken a few times, i wouldn't call him someone i know, only met, but he always seemed like nice bloke who liked to work his dogs and see them worked. We would all like to say i bred myself and this guy was there doing it, maybe if the men he sold to didn't breed from dogs they brought [bANNED TEXT] they were tested fully this thread wouldn't have turned in to a witch hunt.

[Hagen 11]

whats the difference between big kennel breeder and a peddler...

 

Ok, if you like, you can call every big kennel breeder a peddler, because nearly all of them sells dogs to normal people, too.

It's a question of money. If you are not a millionaire you must think about where you can get the money for the vet, food, medicine, building material for the kennel, dog stuff like collars, lead,.... Also you need money for travel long distances to take a look at new dogs, or how your sold dogs works. You need this money to keep your kennel alive.

I think there are two kinds of peddlers. First only breed for money, second only sell as much as they need to keep the kennel alive.

 

Where would be the APBT without Boudreaux, Garner, Hammond, Carver, Heinzl, Corvino, Colby, Norrod, etcetera.....?

 

The best dogs came mostly from big kennels, because the breeders spend all of their time only in breeding.

[Bosun11 537]

Let's keep it simple, in reply to 'ken's black stuff'..... It ain't what it used to be.....!

[gonetoearth 5,144]

Let's keep it simple, in reply to 'ken's black stuff'..... It ain't what it used to be.....!

SAD BUT TRUE

[big bad john 0]

Michael you are wrong.(is this the same michael who is police? talking about pre ban? what ban, decent dogs are still around)

From my experience people with good terriers find homes for pups within a close group of friends. Anyone who comes on a hunting forum ranting and raving about their dogs then offers a litter of pups MUST have problems shifting them by other means. People who see working dogs for what they are, dont assosciate them with money.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but yours is wrong

FTB

in my opinion mate you have hit the nail right on the haed if every 1 that worked dogs felt the same way then there wouldnt be so many shit dogs abowt and there woudnt be nine pages of people selling dogs and argueing about whos is better the people owt there with good dogs arnt makeing any money from selling them and dont need to name drop