Help with Air Arms TDR please

[sibaldib 6]

I bought a second hand AA TDR in .177 last week off someone on the BBS forum.

I already have a S400 with Rowan magazine and wanted to use the scope, presently on that, on the TDR.

 

I went through the usual routine of setting up the scope, but could not get it anywhere near zero. I then realised it was shooting something like 7†low at 30 yds. I took the scope off again and shimmed it on the back mount with some 35mm film and the point of aim moved to a more reasonable level.

 

Again I tried zeroing in but sometimes the pellets would go high and sometimes low. I tried both Bisley Magnums and also AA Field, but to no avail.

Thinking it might be a mis-aligned silencer I swapped the one off the S400, but that made no difference. I also checked that the stock bolt and trigger bolts were done up correctly.

 

I also checked the cylinder pressure and all the time I was zeroing it was between 170 bar and 120 bar, so that should have been absolutely fine. I chrono’d the rifle and it was doing 10.7 with the AA Field and 11.7 with the Magnums.

 

I finally put the scope back on the S400 and it zeroed in perfectly.

 

I spent four hours messing about and am no nearer to get the rifle zeroed.

 

Can any of the forum cognoscenti give me some guidance or offer a solution?

 

Cheers

 

Sib

[davyt63 1,845]

hi sib

have you tried re-centering it?

regards

 

davy

[sibaldib 6]

Hi Davy.

 

I knew I'd forget to say something else I did.

 

Yes - every time I tried something different I re-centred the turret adjusters.

 

Help!

 

Sib

[venomviper 129]

hi ya buddy

i dont know if this will help i had a good scope on my 22 with high mounts on it and when i put on my 177 i couldnt get it to zero either and a bloke at the gun club asked me if i had high mounts on the scope when i said yes he said change the mounts as for 177 its best to keep them low to the action he said once i had did that i got zero he came out with some tec words for it but it worked for me i dont know if that might be the case for you matey or if it's got a silencer and adapter on it take them off and try then to see if you get zero then buddy as some adapters a larger and if not centred right it will throw you off zero matey.

i hope this might help ya buddy but dont hold me to it lol

regards

shay

[sibaldib 6]

Thanks Shay. I did swap silencers but not take it off completely as I was zeroing in my garden and didn't want to upset the neighbours.

I need high mounts as the scope is 3-9x50 and it has a S410 magazine that need clearance provided by the high mounts, but I get your drift.

 

Cheers

 

Sib

[davyt63 1,845]

Hi Davy.

 

I knew I'd forget to say something else I did.

 

Yes - every time I tried something different I re-centred the turret adjusters.

 

Help!

 

Sib

 

 

hi sib

scopes not my strong point,but you have done 2 of the tings i would have done.try the low mounts as advised by shay i have hered this working before.also search the problem on here and there are a few topics that have come up on this lately, and you might get some more tips!

regards

 

davy

[venomviper 129]

hi ya buddy

like davy said there is a few thing's you can do but if i was you matey i would just ask the folks next door if they dont mind 10 minutes of noise to find out try a smaller scope if you have one buddy and smaller mounts what size are the mounts ? and just give it ago just to clear them out of the way so to speak buddy and double glazed windows are pretty good these days lol and try putting the other silencer back on it and if it came with a scope then try that 1 on it as well it's all worth a try buddy

regards

shay

[andyfr1968 772]

If the silencer's mount's not true, then just swapping them won't help. Try it with no mod on and it'll soon tell you if that's the problem. Good luck!

 

Cheers.

[sibaldib 6]

OK, thanks guys.

 

I also forgot to say that I released the barrel band and then re-attached and it was the same as before.

 

I can understand the lower mounts helping with initial zeroing, but that surely wouldn't be responsible for high shots, then low shots, would it?

 

I think before I start bu**ering about with the scope mounts gain, I am going to:

 

1) give the barrel a good clean

2) try the gun without the silencer attached.

 

Thanks again guys - keep the ideas coming.

 

Sib

[sibaldib 6]

Evening chaps,

 

OK - got home from work tonight and tried the rifle without the silencer. I was holding a lamp, whilst my lad took 10 shots from about 15 yds to get an idea of what was happening.

 

When I went to look, all the shots had gone through a hole the size of a 5 pence piece.

 

My lad, who is a locksmith then got out a fibre optic torch he uses to look inside locks and found that there were marks on the exit end of the silencer where the pellets had obviously been clipping.

 

I have tried the silencer from my S400 but I am back to square one with that so the problem must be misalignment.

 

How do I get it lined up properly?

 

Thanks

 

Sib

[venomviper 129]

hi ya buddy

is it a slide over silencer ? or a screw 1 ? or does the silencer screw to an adapter ? if it has an adapter on try a slide over silencer on it matey because some adapters are a little to big and if not fitted true then you will get pellet clips on your silencer buddy

regards

shay

[zini 1,939]

Hi Sib,

 

I have just read this thread pal.

 

I have also had this problem before with my Air Arms S310.

 

I was using my .22 calibre rifle the pellets (different brands) were clipping the sides of the AA silencer causing it to zero left then right.

 

I put my silencer on my pals S300 in .177 and it worked perfectly without clipping.

 

Movement up and down or left and right on pellet impact is not a scope problem if the scope zeroes fine on your other rifle buddy.

 

It can be one of the following issues which i know that you have already looked at:

 

1. Barrel very slightly loose in the action

2. irregular shots to pressure from the rifle causing you to chase your zero up and down, I.E 11.5FP then 10FP then 11.3FP.

3. Silencer or adaptor not aligned correctly

4. If its a screw attachment on you rifle i have also heard of the thread not being true on the rifle.

 

My feelings with your problem is that your adaptor or silencer thread isnt aligned correctly or the AA silencers that you have tried are just a tad to small for the barrels need in regards to correct flight (it happens).

 

What i would do if i was you pal is to try another brand of silencer altogether as this problem i know happens with AA silencer from time to time.

 

Ask a mate maybe to borrow you another adaptor too if your combo requires one to see if it still clips.

 

If it does then i would say you will need to take your rifle to a gun smiths to get him to look at the threads on the barrel pal as they will probably be untrue.

 

Si

Edited January 19, 2010 by zini

[sibaldib 6]

Thanks Si.

 

Tonight, I'm going to put the TDR silencer on the S400 to see if that works correctly. If it does, then obviously I have some kind of barrel problem.

 

The annoying thing is that this couldn't only just have happened and the seller must have noticed this, but of course there's no way of proving it.

 

I want to get it sorted out now as it is bugging me!

 

Cheers

 

Sib

[zini 1,939]

Yes Sib pal,

 

This is not the first time I have heard of people on the BBS selling faulty rifles under false intents, if this turns out to be the case buddy.

 

Someone that I shoot with was also sold a faulty rifle in the past and was pretty un happy to say the least.

 

The problem if proven to be the barrel has been with that rifle for a very long time mate.

 

My problem was solved by me fitting a Logun silencer to my rifle as the hole and baffles in the Logun silencer were slightly bigger than the ones going through the AA silencer.

 

You may also find that because your rifle shoots right then left and doesn’t zero in, that one of the baffles in the silencer is not quite aligned true to the silencer housing and is spinning every couple of shots causing the pellet to clip from time to time, making your POI move left or right

 

Regarding checking out your problem,

 

The way I would look at this is systematically in the following order Sib pal:

 

1. Take off the silencer and adaptor “if fitted†and zero the rifle with the scope.

(Does it work?) “Yesâ€,

Then something is wrong with the adaptor, silencer or the thread on your barrel as you have already tested the scope on another rifle.

 

2. (Does it work?) “Noâ€.

There is something wrong with the rifle itself as there are no other factors to look at.

 

3. The answer was “Yes†in point 1.

Ok, fit ONLY the adaptor and test that the rifle as kept its zero.

(Does it work?) “Yesâ€,

Then something could be a problem with the silencer itself.

 

4. (Does it work?) “Noâ€.

Then something is a problem with either the adaptor or thread on the rifle that the adaptor screws into.

 

5. Back to point 3. Fit the silencer and see if the rifle keeps its zero.

(Does it work?) “Yesâ€,

Then the problem is solved.

 

6. (Does it work?) “Noâ€.

There is something wrong with the silencer itself

 

Si

Edited January 19, 2010 by zini

[sibaldib 6]

Blimey Si - have you used swim lanes and flow charts in the past? You'd be excellent with them!!

 

Right, I got home early from work today and had a little bit of daylight to work in.

Firstly I put the TRD silencer on my AA S400 .22. No problem. Ten shots in the same place.

 

Then put it back on the TDR. First two shots bang on next one high, next one low etc.........

Rotated the silencer clockwise 1/8th of a turn - same as above.

Rotated the silencer clockwise another 1/8th of a turn - same as above.

Rotated the silencer clockwise another 1/8th of a turn - same as above.

Refilled gun to make everything even in testing.

 

Rotated the silencer clockwise 1/8th of a turn - same as above etc, etc......

 

Getting pretty frustrated by now and, with the light failing, to add insult to injury I put a pellet in the magazine the wrong way round! Couldn't get it out, so decided to take the magazine apart and (you've guessed it) the spring and ball bearing decided to jump out and disappear for eternity.

Effing hell - is this gun jinxed or what??

 

I then found out that the magazine will still index without these, so carried on with the testing.

 

Finally, when I got 180 degrees from its original position i.e. with the thumbscrew at top dead centre everything seemed to work.

Fingers crossed, I started zeroing the rifle again, and just before it got dark everything came together and it was bang on target.

 

Hopefully the problem is now resolved, but I won't know until the weekend when I can put 50 or so shots through the gun.

 

Thanks everyone for your help. It's a good forum to be on.

 

Cheers

 

Sib