Close breeding

[Bosun11 537]

I'm with Romany, in that if your looking for a 'replica', it'd be the best way to go.

Though, theroreticaly speaking and i don't wish to cause any offence Mars, as by the sound of it you do rate and value your bitch very highly. I'd ask the question, in three litters, if the dogs you chose have all been quality, similar type workers but produced nothing near to your bitch to merit talk of a possible, line bred, fourth litter, maybe your bitches genes are poor in replicating 'similar type' as herself?

You would certainly better your odds by breeding closer then BUT as with all Lurchers, their make up involves sometimes many differing crosses over many years, even if your bitch is (and I have no idea) made up of say, whippet / greyhound, how far back would that run and what standard of dogs would consistantly be in the make up of both or either, so what would come out in the pups?

With that in mind, whenever we breed our dogs, it's always gonna be a huge gamble to produce a near replica. The best we can hope to do, is line the best to the best, of a type that best suits YOUR needs. Replicas are much tougher to produce and breeding close is the only way to go, dispite popular opinion and it certainly isn't for everyone.

 

Edited to add, that bitch in my avater pic (to your left), was bred out of mother to son, best dog i've owned, she was in turn put back to her sire's litter brother, which bred the black dog in the 'Pie thred'....!

Edited March 23, 2010 by Bosun11

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

I'll say it again, I have done this and many other close breedings with absolutley zero ill affects. Do not worry about it one bit, there will be no problems unless there are already problems.

 

If you breed two dogs together and there are eight pups in the litter but only two of them turn out to be great and worthy of breeding then I would put them two together to see what you get. I would also breed the two dogs together that made them again cause two out of eight is a good litter in my opinion. Thats 25% success rate. In breeding battle fowl you would never be able to produce 25% winners so why would anybody believe that it is possible in dogs. It is not consistantly possible to do so. You may lock in a family of dogs by doing this brother sister cross that can be bred to just about any other dogs and throw back to the average of their family which in breeding is extremely important cause you will almost always throw back to the average and if the average is good, you are doin something right.

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

I need to rephrase my first sentence a bit more. There has been some breedings we have done that were extremely tight off of already extremely tight lines that did produce quite a bit of culls but we also got some extremely tight bred critters that were almost perfect from the same breeding.

[romany52 313]

Shouldn't be any proplem, I've done it in the past with positive results. Remember lurchers, unlike pedigree dogs, are usualy bred unrelated for generations. So once in a while won't cause any proplems.

[romany52 313]

Another thing that may be of interest. Iv'e been breeding rats for hawk food for 10yrs.I started with a male and 2 female siblings. About 7yrs ago I caught a baby male, wild rat and mated that in. Thats the only new blood ever used and they are still sound and breeding well with no culling at all.

[mackay 3,328]

You should have another poll to see who of the ones that have answered have ever inbred or line-bred, i would say most of the ones saying no have never done it.

 

 

Spot on, this topic rears it's head regular andtrue to form the majority of people dismissing it have no experience of linebreeding or inbreeding, whereas those that do say go for it.

It's not enough to say don't because you don't think it's appropriate or you don't agree with it.

[fieldsman 51]

I bred mother to son a few years ago out of 6 pups only 1 turned out with somthing wrong it had an over bite that made it look goofy I was going to pts but a mate insisted he would have him even though freeky looking he made good and turned out as good as his litter mates I still take the piss now when I see him I still call him cleetas the slack jaw yokal.The only thing is he can,t pick the food stuck to the bottem of his bowl

[romany52 313]

I bred mother to son a few years ago out of 6 pups only 1 turned out with somthing wrong it had an over bite that made it look goofy I was going to pts but a mate insisted he would have him even though freeky looking he made good and turned out as good as his litter mates I still take the piss now when I see him I still call him cleetas the slack jaw yokal.The only thing is he can,t pick the food stuck to the bottem of his bowl

 

You can get over or under shot jaw crop up in any breeding.

[merle24 61]

If the last litter off the bitch was so good and uniform,, why not just repeat the mating ? The is so much shit flyig around on this thread its unreal,, good dogs arent bred or born there made,, its what you to with them that makes them hit the grade,,, i could have the best purpose line bred coursing dog in my kennels, but if i dont put the working into the dog, and just leave it in the pen and slap it on the back of a hare then it aint gonna be worth a light,, and a mongrel bred lurcher worked well and offtern will make it look silly,, if in doubt for an outcross,, breed back to pure,,

Mars you could line youre bitch back to a straight grey, then keep all the bitches back as long as you can or whichever throw the bitches side untill you decide on one,,, you are more likely to get a nearer animal to youre bitch by breeding back to pure, because there is less breeds in the mix,, the pure grey blood will gel far better than the lurcher lottery way,, also you will create added hybrid vigour !

 

Alot of the salukigrey animals on the scene today within cousing world are very closley bred,, its the same names and lines mentioned all the time,, the lines are saturated and have bred to type,, there is many dogs not making the grade of the fresh saluki blooded dogs of 20 and 30 years ago,, they have lost there vigour,, to create vigour and put spark back into the breed you need to find a outcross as far away from the bloodline as possible,, lining this type of dog with old type bitza lurcher has created the best hare dogs ive ever seen feild or fen,, you just have to keep the wright ones back,, its because youre adding vigour back into the line.

 

 

[Dan Edwards 1,134]

The is so much shit flyig around on this thread its unreal,, good dogs arent bred or born there made,, its what you to with them that makes them hit the grade

 

 

You cant make chicken salad out of chicken shit partner.

[romany52 313]

The is so much shit flyig around on this thread its unreal,, good dogs arent bred or born there made,, its what you to with them that makes them hit the grade

 

 

You cant make chicken salad out of chicken shit partner.

 

I agree with you Dan, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[romany52 313]

The is so much shit flyig around on this thread its unreal,, good dogs arent bred or born there made,, its what you to with them that makes them hit the grade

 

 

You cant make chicken salad out of chicken shit partner.

 

oops double post.

Edited March 24, 2010 by romany52

[Mars 42]

Edited October 4, 2010 by Mars

[Bosun11 537]

I'm with Romany, in that if your looking for a 'replica', it'd be the best way to go.

Though, theroreticaly speaking and i don't wish to cause any offence Mars, as by the sound of it you do rate and value your bitch very highly. I'd ask the question, in three litters, if the dogs you chose have all been quality, similar type workers but produced nothing near to your bitch to merit talk of a possible, line bred, fourth litter, maybe your bitches genes are poor in replicating 'similar type' as herself?

You would certainly better your odds by breeding closer then BUT as with all Lurchers, their make up involves sometimes many differing crosses over many years, even if your bitch is (and I have no idea) made up of say, whippet / greyhound, how far back would that run and what standard of dogs would consistantly be in the make up of both or either, so what would come out in the pups?

With that in mind, whenever we breed our dogs, it's always gonna be a huge gamble to produce a near replica. The best we can hope to do, is line the best to the best, of a type that best suits YOUR needs. Replicas are much tougher to produce and breeding close is the only way to go, dispite popular opinion and it certainly isn't for everyone.

 

Edited to add, that bitch in my avater pic (to your left), was bred out of mother to son, best dog i've owned, she was in turn put back to her sire's litter brother, which bred the black dog in the 'Pie thred'....!

 

Out of the three litters that i`ve had out of my bitch, I`de say that 90% of the pups have turned out reasonable workers, and one or two i would say exceptional workers, and i belive that the dam plays a big part in a pups early developement...From the 1st litter i did`nt keep a pup back as most were given to mates, from the 2nd litter i kept a dog pup, that was shapeing up well, but it broke it`s neck at 5-1/2 month old, and from the 3rd litter i kept a dog pup that did`nt turn out as i expected, but his new owner is keeping in touch and he`s doing well for him.....

I do belive though that breeding close plays an important part in fixing a certain type, be that good or bad, and i think so long as it`s not done to often, i.e. out cross to a totaly non related line, now and then, then you shouldn`t get the problems that breeders of pedigree dogs get....

To perhaps open the discussion a bit, what are peoples thoughts on breeding half brother to half sister...???

 

Yis Mars...

 

I'd agree with you there Mars, as far as i'm concerned, the Dam is the most important part of the line.

 

As for breeding half brother to half sister, if YOU know whats in 'em and YOUR happy with it and what they both do, then go for it!

[the lamping ferreter 160]

its the same as enny of you lot f!cking ya mother or ya daughter its just not right