primary function

[hily 379]

Stuck inside so had a read of a couple shoot mags in the gundog section of one mag a trainer has written that the dog finds and flushes game but it's primary function is to retrieve shot game and more importent to retrieve wounded game to be humanely dispatched.Now this trainer has probably forgoten more about gundogs than i will ever know but a disagrea with his statement and i am being honest when i say for me a gundog must first find then flush quarry within gunshot and this is its primary role.I don't know if the writer of the article has added the humanley dispatching bit to justify the use of gundogs to the public but as i have said i use my dogs to find and flush quarry for me to shoot and then if shot and its better for the dog to retrieve i get the dog to do it.So what do you use /train your gun dog to be its primary function . ps i use spaniels mostly for rough shooting .

[rickyspringer 15]

think its horses for courses with the different breeds hily obviously, but like yourself i own spaiels, the role has to be to flush the game for the gun, thats a spaniels key role in my opinion.

[ruthi 0]

I reckon that if birds aren't flushed first, they can't be retrieved

 

On a serious note though, doesn't it depend on the breed and its function? Spaniels I would say their primary function is to find and hunt and flush game...retrievers retrieve it. Interesting thread

[hily 379]

I think you both hit the nail on the head it depends on what type of dog you have but this article doese not mention any type just gundogs in general so if you are new to the gundog world you may take the statement that a gundogs main function is to retrieve as been a fact.I think that this article should have been writen for people who use their dogs mostly for picking up .Do you think trainers put a lot of energy into getting a dog to retreive with style because this is what potential buyers see the dog doing when they are in the shooting line or is this just me being nasty.

[Mickey Finn 3,014]

Retrieving dead and wounded game for me.

[hendo 1]

To find and flush the game that we're hunting that day, ie be it rabbits, phezzies or hare

my spaniels are currently worked under hawks, so thet dont get a great deal of retrieving

 

Even HPR's and the such, i would still expect their main job to find and flush the intended quarry.

 

Baz

[Foxgun Tom 75]

Because!! I work GSP's, I expect them to do what they were bred and designed to do as with any HPR breed "Hunt Point and Retrieve! If any of my dogs was'nt able to do all three and!! each ability is important as the next?. If any of my dogs is unable to do any of the above? my personal opinion is that its not worth having?

 

Tom

 

Ps: The above comments are my personal opinion on HPR breeds! it no way detracts or suggests any other gundog breed is inferior it's (horse's for course's)

Edited January 3, 2010 by Foxgun Tom

[waidmann 105]

i'm in agreement with foxgun tom. they should be able to hunt up,mark/point,and retrieve.

i see no reason why a spaniel cant retrieve or a lab hunt up. i expect the same from the terrier i have at the moment.

if we are happy with the work a dog does then fine.

[Polkey 70]

I had an interesting conversation with a lady who described her self as a Purist in that she believed that dogs are bred for certain job and will excel at that job and should not be used for anything else. She told me that traditionally spaniels, retrievers, etc would have been worked as part of a team used for the job meant for them, she was referring to the aristocratic life . I can see the sense in it and it must be wonderful to see. I have a young cocker, my first gun dog and he will be used mainly for bushing, flushing to the lurcher and gun and retrieving. I dont expect him to retrieve as stylishly as a flat coat but who cares so long as he can do it, for those of us that only have one or 2 dogs then I guess we need them to do a bit of everything, so long as the dog is workable and does the job who cares what it is. Im def not onto the purist stuff, I appreciate it but plenty of people out there have dogs that can do it all because thats what they took the time to train them to do, each to there own.

[watchman 256]

I had an interesting conversation with a lady who described her self as a Purist in that she believed that dogs are bred for certain job and will excel at that job and should not be used for anything else. She told me that traditionally spaniels, retrievers, etc would have been worked as part of a team used for the job meant for them, she was referring to the aristocratic life . I can see the sense in it and it must be wonderful to see. I have a young cocker, my first gun dog and he will be used mainly for bushing, flushing to the lurcher and gun and retrieving. I dont expect him to retrieve as stylishly as a flat coat but who cares so long as he can do it, for those of us that only have one or 2 dogs then I guess we need them to do a bit of everything, so long as the dog is workable and does the job who cares what it is. Im def not onto the purist stuff, I appreciate it but plenty of people out there have dogs that can do it all because thats what they took the time to train them to do, each to there own.

very well put that mate

[welshboy454 3]

Stuck inside so had a read of a couple shoot mags in the gundog section of one mag a trainer has written that the dog finds and flushes game but it's primary function is to retrieve shot game and more importent to retrieve wounded game to be humanely dispatched.Now this trainer has probably forgoten more about gundogs than i will ever know but a disagrea with his statement and i am being honest when i say for me a gundog must first find then flush quarry within gunshot and this is its primary role.I don't know if the writer of the article has added the humanley dispatching bit to justify the use of gundogs to the public but as i have said i use my dogs to find and flush quarry for me to shoot and then if shot and its better for the dog to retrieve i get the dog to do it.So what do you use /train your gun dog to be its primary function . ps i use spaniels mostly for rough shooting .

The description "Gundog" covers a broad spectrum and I can understand it if someone only experiences driven game, coastal wildfowling or pigeon decoying to think of a gundog as a retriever only because that is the only task required.

However for the vast majority of shooters the dog has to be dual purpose with the primary role being finding and flushing game within range for shooting with retrieving being secondary.

Maybe the author of the piece has had limited experience and never seen a dog flushing rabbits/woodcock/pheasants from thick cover or a dog casting far and wide in sparse game land and holding point for the guns.

Edited January 3, 2010 by welshboy454

[hily 379]

Stuck inside so had a read of a couple shoot mags in the gundog section of one mag a trainer has written that the dog finds and flushes game but it's primary function is to retrieve shot game and more importent to retrieve wounded game to be humanely dispatched.Now this trainer has probably forgoten more about gundogs than i will ever know but a disagrea with his statement and i am being honest when i say for me a gundog must first find then flush quarry within gunshot and this is its primary role.I don't know if the writer of the article has added the humanley dispatching bit to justify the use of gundogs to the public but as i have said i use my dogs to find and flush quarry for me to shoot and then if shot and its better for the dog to retrieve i get the dog to do it.So what do you use /train your gun dog to be its primary function . ps i use spaniels mostly for rough shooting .

The description "Gundog" covers a broad spectrum and I can understand it if someone only experiences driven game, coastal wildfowling or pigeon decoying to think of a gundog as a retriever only because that is the only task required.

However for the vast majority of shooters the dog has to be dual purpose with the primary role being finding and flushing game within range for shooting with retrieving being secondary.

Maybe the author of the piece has had limited experience and never seen a dog flushing rabbits/woodcock/pheasants from thick cover.

Thats my point he is a trainer he has written books on gundogs .

[Dave C 63]

Good thread hily

I need a very versatile dog that can find and flush game to either gun or Lurcher as its main job, and retreive as big as a hare or small as a pigeon as secondry.

My lab pup is becoming that dog, which may surprise some.

 

Dave.

[welshboy454 3]

Stuck inside so had a read of a couple shoot mags in the gundog section of one mag a trainer has written that the dog finds and flushes game but it's primary function is to retrieve shot game and more importent to retrieve wounded game to be humanely dispatched.Now this trainer has probably forgoten more about gundogs than i will ever know but a disagrea with his statement and i am being honest when i say for me a gundog must first find then flush quarry within gunshot and this is its primary role.I don't know if the writer of the article has added the humanley dispatching bit to justify the use of gundogs to the public but as i have said i use my dogs to find and flush quarry for me to shoot and then if shot and its better for the dog to retrieve i get the dog to do it.So what do you use /train your gun dog to be its primary function . ps i use spaniels mostly for rough shooting .

The description "Gundog" covers a broad spectrum and I can understand it if someone only experiences driven game, coastal wildfowling or pigeon decoying to think of a gundog as a retriever only because that is the only task required.

However for the vast majority of shooters the dog has to be dual purpose with the primary role being finding and flushing game within range for shooting with retrieving being secondary.

Maybe the author of the piece has had limited experience and never seen a dog flushing rabbits/woodcock/pheasants from thick cover.

Thats my point he is a trainer he has written books on gundogs .

Just as different types of dogs have certain strengths so too have people. My sister in law is a teacher and can write with a wonderful turn of phrase being particularly descriptive. Her dogs are totally unruly.

On the other hand I have a shooting friend who cannot read or write but boy can he train dogs.

Maybe the author of the piece you read is a better writer than trainer.

Maybe somehow we should all pool our collective knowledge for an article/book on specilist gundogs as no one person can know it all.

I see some people on this forum replying to certain threads and while their spelling /grammar may not be perfect their contribution is almost priceless and worth far more than gifted writers.

There must be a way to harness this collective knowhow/tricks/tips etc.

Edited January 4, 2010 by welshboy454

[Dan Newcombe 58]

I havent read the article and dont know the author but i would hazard a guess at what he means.

 

The most important part of shooting is getting the game back to you either dead or even more importantly for dispatch. Therefore the most important (read primary) function for the dog is to get whatever you shoot back to you.

 

I have spaniels and they are without a doubt primarily hunting dogs in their mentality BUT i can walk along and flush things for myself. What i cannot do is track down a runner and bring it to hand and what i will not do (there is a difference) is swim in a cold lake to bring something back.

 

As they say in deer stalking, the hard work starts AFTER you pull the trigger. Its the same in shooting, the important bit starts after the game hits the floor.

 

It is also worth remembering that professional trainers are not looking to guide people in making up a dog for the beating line (where granted, the primary and possibly only function is to flush), they are talking about a rough shooters dog etc where its expected to be an allrounder. Flushing and then retrieving.

 

I will be the first to admit that my cocker isnt the most polished of retrievers especially handing out a long way but he will get the job done and i personally regard that as his most important function!

 

Im not knocking the hawking / lurcher blokes at all but as a shooting dog i think that retrieving is the most important thing (we will se how well i have articulated my thoughts in the replies to this)