FEEDING THE DOGS

[Nipper 0]

No worries and no offence taken here!

 

My mate reflects the realties of modern life, time is short! It is one thing to have these romantic notions and another to live them.

 

I don't think racers think that it doesn't matter what they feed their dogs as their speed will only last four years. However, I do think that they will feed whatever they have to that will get them to produce their best form. If this was RMB or BARF then they would feed it. The fact that it is dried food says a lot!

 

Quotes are made about the number of dogs with smelly breaths etc and my terrier doesn't have smelly breath or bad teeth. The fact is that he is kept fit and this is perhaps the contributing factor.

 

Unfortunately, I am not prepared to go touting around the butchers, fishmongers, local abbatoirs or liquidising vegetables to feed my romantic ideals and my dogs are no worse off for it. I did start the research once, and source the local suppliers and costed the annual bill, before realising that the time, money and inconvenience didn't offer my dogs any greater longevity!

 

All the best to all foods!!!

[Guest JOEB]

Fair play Nipper :thumbs-up: .........each to there own....

Good hunting!

JOEB

[Guest carra]

good thred ! i feed my dogs on raw meat and boans but when i run out of that i feed kibble for a day or two i do make up soups ie broths but thats mostly for welping biches and in the winter months ! it dosent take long before you know how much your dog can consume in one sitting so as for flys and maggots it never gets to that point and boans will only be left in the kennel for a few houres , so whats the problem ? white and brown dog shite i love to see that , but when its light or dark brown depending the kibble you feed and its stinks to the high hevens , well i dont like that it makes me gag :sick: and since reading some of rainmakers post i have since stopt feeding veg i only feed veg to welping biches and it comes in the form of broth and since i only breed for myself i havent got welping biches every month of the year so the broth only gets made about once every two years :thumbs-up: aye rainmakers you know yer stuf and i know i have arguments with you before about the need to feed veg but i take it all back ya bass :thumbs-up: ....

[dodger 2,765]

One day last week i forgot to take the meat out the freezer so i had to go out and get a bag of dry food,i asked for a decent 24% and ended up getting burgess supa dog active.

When i opened the bag the food had a really strong smell of what smelt like chemicals which i wasn't impressed with,anyway seen as tho i didn't want the dogs to go with out and it was a one off i put two bowlfuls down but the dogs wouldn't touch it just sniffed at it and turned there noses up so i had to go back out and get some mince.

This is either that the dogs know whats best for them or there spoilt with the rmb diet either way judging by the look and smell of the complete i don't hold much hope of it being any good.

[Rainmaker 7]

As an aside, I found this on Greyhound Rescue UK's website (specialising in rehoming/retiring ex-racing GHs) earlier; not while looking for dental info I might add!

 

Most 'rescued' dogs are found to have badly coated teeth, with sore or infected gums that need veterinary attention. Once the infection has been treated, the teeth will often improve dramatically.

 

It (this greyhound trainer's/racer's preferred dry food) might keep them ticking over long enough to run, but the long-term health implications are patently clear

[dodger 2,765]

You called? Help you out indeed I will mate, your head must be springeing by now!

 

 

That better?

 

Seriously though, this thread (not the first certainly not the last) is typical of the reaction of people indoctrinated by pet food manufacturer's propaganda. I'm in the process of drafting a full scale article for the site on nutrition and feeding but pending that here's my tuppence (again) in relation to comments thus far:

 

1) You do NOT have to mess about trying to "balance" a raw diet. Whole carcase or varied bits thereof (as whole as possible), straight out the fridge/freezer or straight from the shop/butchers - chuck it to the dogs. It's as hard as that.

 

2) That boffin with a PhD might have a brain but he's still on the payroll mate. He might be an excellent chemist, but he's no biologist, zoologist or ecologist. Unfortunately you can spray on all the vitamins and rancid fats you like (funny they have to add all this vitamin stuff seeing as the ingredients are so "wholesome"?), it's still crap in a bag.

 

3) Processed manufactured food, as created by your boffin at £13 a sack (only £9 for the same stuff here but anyway...) will undeniably facilitate the development of periodontal disease in your animals (see all my previous posts for references, sources and proof, I'm sick of having to re-type them!).

 

4) Periodontal disease WILL erode the bone structure of the jaw, and WILL slowly poison your dogs' internal organs sight unseen leading to auto-immune disease (like those 'old' middle aged dogs nowadays all stiff with arthritis), organ failure and death to name a tiny fraction of the implications.

 

5) 85% or more of dogs over three years old fed processed foods (kibble, canned, sausages, mince morsels, "barf mince") have periodontal disease at a level warranting surgical intervention. This figure rises to 100% of dogs fed processed food as the age rises. In dogs fed raw meaty bones and carcases (not barf mince), this figure is zero, or very nearly zero.

 

6) Dogs fed whole carcases and/or raw meaty bones don't have this problem and live a long healthy life. So-called dog breath (actually a symptom of periodontal disease and not a natural state at all in a healthy dog), greasy/flaky skin, recurrent ear infections, scouring, copious sloppy brown turds (don't say "my dog gets X brand and his turds are fine - trust me compared to raw they're at least three times too big and smelly!)... none of these exist in the raw dog.

 

We have dogs now classified as 'old' at 7 or 8 upwards. Heck they're barely middle aged really. It's become the norm to believe that dogs SHOULD have "dog breath", that it's "normal" for them to need regular scaling and polishing at the vets (for the lucky ones who actually HAVE oral exams), and that great sloppy turds are the correct state of affairs.

 

Pet food manufacturers have long had propaganda down to a fine art, aided in no small part by the vets. By misinforming the public and planting these untruths and lies in front of the average Joe (who is more than willing to believe 'boffins'), they are raking it in all the way to the bank, while their friends the vets make an extra buck on treating your animal after commercial dog food made it sick in the first place.

 

Don't believe me? Ask your vet how long they spent at vet school being taught nutrition, and by whom they were taught. Invariably the answer is "one day max - pet food company rep". What does that tell you? They get free dog kibble from the sponsoring company for their uni, and only access to company reps as their source of knowledge. Hell even the BSAVA's manual on companion animal nutrition is written by the head of public relations for MARS Corporation/Pedigree!

 

Do you really think their advice is "Don't buy our stuff, feed raw meaty bones"? Or would it be "feed this crap, fill our pockets, and when our food hurts your dog (which it will - their own admission!) we can sell you some extra, more expensive stuff, to fix a deficiency we said didn't occur in the first place".

 

Ever wondered why "Complete & Balanced" foods need to be replaced with "Dental", "Low Sugar" "Low Salt" "Low Protein" etc once the damage is done? If the original foods were so appropriate for the dogs in the first place there would be no need to alter the diet at all. So much for 100% complete and balanced.

 

Pedigree's own vet, Dr Scott Miller, admits in Pedigree's own propaganda (albeit inadvertently no doubt) that Pedigree and other dry/canned foods lead to the development of periodontal disease and early death, and the way to prevent this happening is to feed RMBs and carcases.

 

Unfortunately, says Dr Miller, we don't feed RMBs and carcases we feed from a bowl - and therefore need to take even further action to remedy the periodontal disease and systemic poisoning facilitated by manufactured processes foods. If that's what their own vet front-man is saying, imagine which bits they DONT want you to hear!

 

Anyway I could go on, just wanted to address the myth that it's hard to "balance" a raw diet. No such balancing needed. Further, to smash the misconception planted by pet food manufacturers that their "boffins" create healthy meals for your dog. Their own advertising admits this isn't the case - check out the "85% of dogs over 3 and fed manufactured food have periodontal disease" label on their ridiculous DentaStix packets.

 

No need to go on. I'm certainly not going to flame you for feeding kibble - it's your choice. Just wanted to lay to rest the misconceptions and untruths about raw feeding.

 

Cheers,

 

Lee

Look forward to the article lee is it going to be added soon?

[Nipper 0]

Best thing you RMB & BARF romantics can do, is to list where punters can buy the gear for storing, what to store in and what quantities to buy in to make the whole venture cost effective.

 

As an aside, too much bone can cause ruptured large intestines from compaction. A painful and expensive condition to treat, even if your mate is a vet!!

[MIKE 18]

Best thing you RMB & BARF romantics can do, is to list where punters can buy the gear for storing, what to store in and what quantities to buy in to make the whole venture cost effective.

 

As an aside, too much bone can cause ruptured large intestines from compaction. A painful and expensive condition to treat, even if your mate is a vet!!

 

[Rainmaker 7]

Best thing you RMB & BARF romantics can do, is to list where punters can buy the gear for storing, what to store in and what quantities to buy in to make the whole venture cost effective.

 

As an aside, too much bone can cause ruptured large intestines from compaction. A painful and expensive condition to treat, even if your mate is a vet!!

 

 

The problems of feeding raw bones are vastly over-stated. Usually by pet food companies and vets. I've had dogs many a time steal a whole bag full of bones and eat the lot to no ill effect. True, bare naked bones without any muscle can bung a dog up for a bit, but it's all completely fix-able no surgery required in 99% of cases.

 

That's why the advocacy is for raw, MEATY bones. No such impaction problems there. I must admit I find it amusing that you've referred to raw feeding (bones, carcases etc) as "romantic" several times now. What's so 'romantic' about it? Providing an appropriate, health-giving (as opposed to inappropriate and disease causing) diet is nothing of the sort. It's common sense!

 

If anything the only romance involved rests squarely with the pet food propaganda. "Feed your dog our milled, rendered byproduct gloop (which is devoid of any meaningful vitamin, mineral and enzyme content) and cause major dental disease... but don't worry we can sell you something else for that!"

 

I daresay the flood of money involved does indeed give the company directors a heady sense of romantic wonder.

 

As for "us romantics" suggesting where to buy and how to store appropriate (raw) food, this has been offered a multitude of times on this site. You need nothing more than your own family freezer for one dog, and maybe a seperate chest (under-counter) or upright freezer if you have a 'pack' of dogs.

 

Food is free or next to free from butchers, abattoirs, meat wholesalers etc, takes half a day to source (source kept for life) and you need stock up only monthly. No more trouble than buying a bag of crap in a bag each month once you know where you can buy from, and it costs between free and £10 a month for a whole pack of dogs. It has been said that you can feed a dog or two on a pack of kibble for a month for a tenner. You could literally feed half a dozen or more lurcher sized dogs on raw for a month, at HALF that cost. Kibble is expensive, and destroys your dogs' health. That's one heavy price to pay imho.

 

I am literally turning food away. I'm offered (and take) everything from lungs/hearts, backs, necks, ribs, trotters, tails, chicken carcases, wings, heads, whole fish... I take what I want (mostly free) and thanks but no thanks to the rest. It's virtually effort free and costs nowt - butchers/abattoirs etc have to pay to have this stuff removed, they'd rather GIVE it to you than pay the bone man.

 

I really don't see what's so difficult or romantic about nipping down to the butcher/abattoir once a month and chucking a few boxes of RMBs in the freezer! It's certainly no more difficult than stocking up on a monthly shop for your own family - minus the headache of supermarket aisles, as in dogs case it's one shop, one product, sorted!

 

People sometimes come back to me and say "isn't that a lot of trouble just for some dogs?". My reply usually goes to the effect that if you don't want to provide any given animal its correct food, don't keep that animal. I can't help but wonder what reaction would be had in reptile keeping circles (I've been a keeper for 14 years), should someone come along and say "Whoa, don't feed a natural, appropriate diet of rats, mice and rabbits! Feed this ground, processed sausage of byproducts with added vits and minerals instead. It's so much more convenient!".

 

Actually, that happened years ago - and the product flopped spectacularly. Rightly so.

 

Quite WHY dog owners are so heavily indoctrinated by pet food company advertising and propaganda is a multi-faceted issue, but the fact remains that carcases and RMBs provide the most nutritional, safe, appropriate diet available. Millions of years of evolution can't be wrong. Rabbit owners for the most part feed their pets a diet of fresh grasses, grains etc. Lizard keepers feed live insects and rodents. Snake keepers feed rodents, rabbits etc. Bird keepers feed whole seeds, fresh fruit and veggies.

 

Why IS it that us dog owners are so hell-bent on feeding an inappropriate diet for the sake of saving a few minutes, especially as it costs us so dear in the long-run? Dr Tom Lonsdale refers to dog and cat owners as zoo keepers in a zoo without bars. The intention is to remove people from the now entrenched idea of feeding kibble or canned food as healthy, and have them reflect on the fact that had they been a zoo keeper, and had received these wonderful carnivorous animals - they would look at what to feed and see that the natural diet involves whole carcases and RMBs.

 

I've gone on way too long here, but that said the threads of late ARE switching people on to the raw alternative to pet food pap, so I consider it energy well spent.

 

Cheers,

 

Lee

[Rainmaker 7]

Look forward to the article lee is it going to be added soon?

 

Hi dodger,

 

Not sure mate, I have mountains to do lately. Between advising/discussing/joining the craic on here for fun I'm currently carrying out a study vis a vis a PhD at a uni, helping with the www.ukrmb.co.uk campaign, running a family with three young kids, working the dogs... The usual

 

Will get something together as soon as I can, and forward it to Ian for inclusion as he sees fit

Cheers,

 

Lee

[brother fox 1]

Beef, roo and a good quality working dog kibble with a protein content of more than 20 percent and a fat content of more than 12 percent. The odd rabbit or chicken carcass when available.

[Guest Jane Russell]

I care about the longevity of my best friend and working partner. You should too Nipper.

 

Jane

[Phil Lloyd 10,738]

Rainmaker,...your just like me,..an unashamed 'New Romantic' :11: :11: :11:

 

"Barf, Barf"...

Edited September 27, 2006 by CHALKWARREN

[bigdazz 0]

you only know the true benifits of RMB and BARF when you see the differance for yourselfs i did feed on barf for some time them tryed dry again but never again i could see the differance in my dogs condition and that was enough for me raw meats all the time now

[woodga 170]

I LIKE TO FEED MINE ON TRIPE ,BEEF, CHICKEN,RABBITS AND THE RIBS OFF THE DEER THEY LOVE .WE GET 40LBS OF TRIPE DELIVERED TO THE DOOR FOR £10CANT BE BAD AND THE DOGS ALL THRIVE ON IT

 

GOOD HUNTING ALL WOODGA :ph34r: