Low standards...... too low

[hungry hunter 0]

I've just read David Harcombes latest book. I found it refreshing as its the first book on terriers and their work that i have bothered to read. The reason i found it refreshing is because I read more or less what i've been thinking/practicing.

Its provoked me enough to start a topic on here. As was reading a book on the subject this is a first too. I enjoyed reading about his love of and more so his devotion to the upkeep in quality of the earthdog and even moreso the honest terrier man. I find it very hard to find good dogs but even harder to find honest men.

The standard of working terrier has dropped to a very low standard. I do not have what i would consider a good dog and havent had one for the past three years. But, the dogs that i do have, most of the so called terrier men i have met all over the country would, (if they were their own)would make them out to be top notch..... worth breeding from. They would make excuses for them..... he's too big, its not a stop end, blah blah blah.

I have to agree with Davids comments on breeding in the book. Breed close and use the best within this. I've seen dogs fail and still be bred from and sold to unsuspecting, unexperienced lads just trying to get on the ladder so to speak. This turns my stomach. These men are most likely the lazy so and so's that don't bother to back fill after their failures.

I've also travelled far to see good dogs working. I love the sport, i don't have to own the good dog in the earth, i equally enjoy digging to another mans dog working well. I find it hard to even find good consistant dogs anywhere let alone a good line of terrier. Many times of late i have travelled to see some good dogs work, lets put it like this, some of them worked well. But when asked to see the dogs work a second or a third (this was pushing it). Either the owner or the dog said no.

Most of the people that will read this post will have low standards, they mightened even realise it. I am of the opinion that if the dog isn't good enough for me well then he's not good enough for anyone, unless for a pet. I've seen some soft hearted people pass on dogs for free only to see others to pocket from it. One bitch in particular was useless, wouldnt enter the ground. Passed on for free, then sold, then the bitch was lined with an equally bad sire. The pups were lately advertised for a crazy price with all sorts of lies attached to them. What a prick.

Where have the honest men and their dogs gone?

[higgins 75]

You'll have to look long and hard to find honest terriermen,and that's where you'll find the decent terriers,not saying you won't find them elsewhere,but the line bred worker to worker stuff won't be always be found in the breeders with well known names,good topic pal,shall be interesting to hear other's views,

Higgins.

[Jamie93 57]

Some honest words spoken there mate

Happy Hunting Jamie93

[Terrie 12]

Totally agree with your post BUT one mans junk is another mans tresure.

[the_stig 6,614]

simlpe £££ greed .. i learnt the pigeon racing game fom my grandad and my dad - i applied the same methods to terriers breed tight best to the best keep or cull . i went into show pigeons same again why sell stuff that could beat you .. my grandad once said dont kid yourself if its crap its crap ..i could of made a fortune selling pups when i was big into terrier shows during the 80s .i`ve seen terriers change hands for silly money because whatever it is show or work people seem to want instant success - supply and demand.. you`ll find good honest terrier men that keep half a dozen terriers that go about what they do without anynoe knowing it men that dont give a feck about being a name ..

 

 

[hogs head 19]

true words about some people and not aboutother so dont come on this and say most people that read this have low standards and the words i say to you

[top terrierman 90]

that is the turth the place is full of drit and lads breeding and produceing more shit.the simple facts is they dont test their dogs some lads dig their dogs a few times a season and talk about them for the rest of it.their still are a few honest lads out their im lucky enough to know some of these lads and dig with them they tell it how it is and i have learn'nt one thing in this game and thats to be honest their is no need for bullshit breed for yourself and close friends and work them the way they should be and you will always no what you have in your yard.belive only what you see yourself.to many money men out their couldnt give a f**k about the standard of terriers as long as they line their pockets.

 

 

[hogs head 19]

that is the turth the place is full of drit and lads breeding and produceing more shit.the simple facts is they dont test their dogs some lads dig their dogs a few times a season and talk about them for the rest of it.their still are a few honest lads out their im lucky enough to know some of these lads and dig with them they tell it how it is and i have learn'nt one thing in this game and thats to be honest their is no need for bullshit breed for yourself and close friends and work them the way they should be and you will always no what you have in your yard.belive only what you see yourself.to many money men out their couldnt give a f**k about the standard of terriers as long as they line their pockets.

and that the f*****g truth

[stormyboy 1,352]

Top class dogs. Nature or nurture? Is there a lack of top quality dogs? Or a lack of capable trainers? Or both?

Quite an opening post H.H. But is it as black and white as you state? NO pun intended.

There have been posts on digging dogs not needing to be stock broken,non retrieving lurchers-does it matter? etc etc.

Says more about the owners than the dogs.

The number of failures a man (or woman) has, often indicates where the problem lies!

[waidmann 105]

i would aggree with both p***y and the opening post to a degree.

those who breed dogs need not pay attention to others standards,as long as thiers are as high as thay think possible.

 

those starting out who wish to buy a pup are often let down by irresponsible breeding out of failed/unproven/defective dogs.

 

i would always try to get a dog from a known source if at all possible.if you can't then its down to TRUST and that is a known human failing i'm afraid.

 

men who don't stay true to the dogs( and thats what it boils down to,irrespective of breed or x) are not terrier men or sportsmen.

A GOOD NEW YEAR TO ALL.

[Guest eastmids]

Top class dogs. Nature or nurture? Is there a lack of top quality dogs? Or a lack of capable trainers? Or both?

 

its a bit of both for me fella you cant ruin a dog that never had it but you can one that has.

[hungry hunter 0]

Cloud nine? maybe. I'm sure there are some decent lines around p***y. The people i hang around with have had, over the last 15 years, some of the best single handed dogs you could wish to work over. But one fundemental fault that accured at the begining of this ten - fifteen year spate of serious dogs is that the wrong sire got the credit due to a dishonest man. So after the blood of great workers slowly got thinned down to the water we have at the minute, by using the dishonest mans blood (dont get me wrong, his dog was excellent too, but not the Xblood) we ended up with substandard stock. So breeding from what was left was a waste of time.

So after hearing about great dogs from guys boasting and breeding from, i decided to check them out. One dig p***y is no grounds that i myself would judge a dog on. If a dog is mad fresh he can work a treat but quickly go back to his true colours afterwards. That is why i like to see a couple of digs. One today and one to the same quality tomorrow is fine.

I'm not cutting at anyone that i have not met, only the men and dogs i have seen and creating a survey in my minds eye of the rest of the country.

[fish 148]

Cloud nine? maybe. I'm sure there are some decent lines around p***y. The people i hang around with have had, over the last 15 years, some of the best single handed dogs you could wish to work over. But one fundemental fault that accured at the begining of this ten - fifteen year spate of serious dogs is that the wrong sire got the credit due to a dishonest man. So after the blood of great workers slowly got thinned down to the water we have at the minute, by using the dishonest mans blood (dont get me wrong, his dog was excellent too, but not the Xblood) we ended up with substandard stock. So breeding from what was left was a waste of time.

So after hearing about great dogs from guys boasting and breeding from, i decided to check them out. One dig p***y is no grounds that i myself would judge a dog on. If a dog is mad fresh he can work a treat but quickly go back to his true colours afterwards. That is why i like to see a couple of digs. One today and one to the same quality tomorrow is fine.

I'm not cutting at anyone that i have not met, only the men and dogs i have seen and creating a survey in my minds eye of the rest of the country.

sounds like to me you have not been out with the right dogs there are a few about

[kcorder86 10]

I've just read David Harcombes latest book. I found it refreshing as its the first book on terriers and their work that i have bothered to read. The reason i found it refreshing is because I read more or less what i've been thinking/practicing.

Its provoked me enough to start a topic on here. As was reading a book on the subject this is a first too. I enjoyed reading about his love of and more so his devotion to the upkeep in quality of the earthdog and even moreso the honest terrier man. I find it very hard to find good dogs but even harder to find honest men.

The standard of working terrier has dropped to a very low standard. I do not have what i would consider a good dog and havent had one for the past three years. But, the dogs that i do have, most of the so called terrier men i have met all over the country would, (if they were their own)would make them out to be top notch..... worth breeding from. They would make excuses for them..... he's too big, its not a stop end, blah blah blah.

I have to agree with Davids comments on breeding in the book. Breed close and use the best within this. I've seen dogs fail and still be bred from and sold to unsuspecting, unexperienced lads just trying to get on the ladder so to speak. This turns my stomach. These men are most likely the lazy so and so's that don't bother to back fill after their failures.

I've also travelled far to see good dogs working. I love the sport, i don't have to own the good dog in the earth, i equally enjoy digging to another mans dog working well. I find it hard to even find good consistant dogs anywhere let alone a good line of terrier. Many times of late i have travelled to see some good dogs work, lets put it like this, some of them worked well. But when asked to see the dogs work a second or a third (this was pushing it). Either the owner or the dog said no.

Most of the people that will read this post will have low standards, they mightened even realise it. I am of the opinion that if the dog isn't good enough for me well then he's not good enough for anyone, unless for a pet. I've seen some soft hearted people pass on dogs for free only to see others to pocket from it. One bitch in particular was useless, wouldnt enter the ground. Passed on for free, then sold, then the bitch was lined with an equally bad sire. The pups were lately advertised for a crazy price with all sorts of lies attached to them. What a prick.

Where have the honest men and their dogs gone?

.............................................?

Edited February 11, 2010 by kcorder86

[Cleanspade 3,322]

well to be honest i would say thats the most insulting post ive seen in a while most folk have low standards why not get off your high horse and say that most folk have different standards that dont suit the way you work your dogs. if my dog has done well. it will need more than a day off to recover. and if i was asked to work it again. the answer would be f.uck off. there is truth in a lot of the things you say. what yardstick do you use for these standards. do we judge all our terriers by other folks standards or our own? i judge my dogs simply by the job they need to do. if they can do what i need then they are up to my standard. it gets a bit boring listening to folk ramming there idea'of terrierwork down everyones throuts. my dogs only have to suit me. messers are in avery walk of life. i just avoid them. and keep my own company.

 

one of the biggest problems in the working terrier world in my opinion is standards that are set to high.

 

if i was to talk down to folk like that i would feel i had to have a good set of credentials. no wonder there are divides in the fieldsports world. live and let live i say