.308 v .243

[Mr_Logic 5]

Not really. It <i>can get by</i> at lots of different things, but it doesn't excel apart from on deer (UK based). The 308 isn't a great fox/deer round - it's too loopy for night-time fox shooting. However, if you buy one for deer, you can still kill a fox with it - never said otherwise on any thread.<div><br></div><div>What you can't do with a .308 is to make it excel at killing foxes with a light bullet, driven very fast, making it ideal for lamping foxes at somewhat extreme ranges.</div><div><br></div><div>I would say the .308 is a jack of all trades, where the 243 is an all-rounder. The difference being that the jack of all trades can do things OK, but the all-rounder can do more than one thing well. Unless we're talking a regular diet of red deer, and even that is debatable, the 243 is GOOD at shooting deer, and EXCELLENT at shooting fox.</div><div><br></div><div>The 308 is very good on deer, and it works on fox.</div>

[RicW 67]

Ultimate all purpose hunting round for Europe is the 6.5x55. Full stop.

 

Ric

 

Is that because any calibre that has been used in a war is not allowed in some European countries? eg 7 x 57

 

Since the 6.5x55 was originally a military round, I would guess not! Interesting point tho'

 

Ric

[langouroux 14]

i see what you mean about the balance of the T3 lite BUT it has a nice trigger i have learnt to stalk with a sauer 6.5x55 so nothing will feel quite as nice as that no matter what i buy! shame i dont have the spare £1600 just for gun spare really!

 

I'll fit it with a wildcat mod and an S&B scope once i have saved up, will have to make do with a cheaper scope for the time bing.

 

really looking forward to getting it now. my mates runs 120grain ballistic tip home loads, you can point shoot at fox's / deer from 50 yards to 200yards as it is so flat!

 

happy days!

[RicW 67]

Ultimate all purpose hunting round for Europe is the 6.5x55. Full stop.

 

Ric

 

 

Not sure where you get your information from Ric and I'm not sure what you call Europe...but remember in Europe, you get Elk/Moose, Bear, Mountain Cats, Wolves, and bigger Wild Boar than here..as well as a few things I've forgotten.....

 

I did say they use it on Elk,and I agree it's a lot of gun. Info comes from, oddly enough, several hand loading sites as well as Wikipedia. Re boar I have to disagree. The world record heaviest boar was a sow(!) shot in Herefordshire, 518 lbs. The boar with the longest tushes was also shot in England. According to Wild Boar Britain the British wild boar is as large as any in Eastern Europe. Originally from mainly French stock, they have been crossed with other populations from both Eastern and Western Europe, giving hybrid vigour. The size is now under threat from trophy hunting.

 

My link

Ric

PS we've got a lot of 'em here in E.Sussex!

Edited December 19, 2009 by RicW

[Deker 3,478]

Ultimate all purpose hunting round for Europe is the 6.5x55. Full stop.

 

Ric

 

 

Not sure where you get your information from Ric and I'm not sure what you call Europe...but remember in Europe, you get Elk/Moose, Bear, Mountain Cats, Wolves, and bigger Wild Boar than here..as well as a few things I've forgotten.....

 

I did say they use it on Elk,and I agree it's a lot of gun. Info comes from, oddly enough, several hand loading sites as well as Wikipedia. Re boar I have to disagree. The world record heaviest boar was a sow(!) shot in Herefordshire, 518 lbs. The boar with the longest tushes was also shot in England. According to Wild Boar Britain the British wild boar is as large as any in Eastern Europe. Originally from mainly French stock, they have been crossed with other populations from both Eastern and Western Europe, giving hybrid vigour. The size is now under threat from trophy hunting.

 

My link

Ric

PS we've got a lot of 'em here in E.Sussex!

 

The picture doesn't always tell the real story, ALL the wild Boar, in the wild in this country stem from escapees/released captive animals which were being bred primarily for the food chain! That being the case there is an argument to suggest the "record breakers" are simply fat b*****ds fed up artificially, got loose and then shot! The descendent's of Wild boar escapees in this country are seldom over 150kg!! 518lbs (235kg) is a monster whichever way you look at it! Hey Hoe, we may have missed a trick here, lets keep breeding them and become the world centre of fat b*****d Wild Boar shooting.....after all the French feed their Carp to a stupid extent and everyone wants to go fishing there now for some specimens!!

 

Anyway.. seeing as your pride and joy .204 is not to be recommended for Boar how do you fancy a hand controlling all those you have in E.Sussex....actually that is new to me as well, as far as I was aware there were few or none there, spreading further afield all the time..probably just getting overcrowded in Kent and heading west

Edited December 19, 2009 by Deker

[RicW 67]

Cheeky sod. The minimum calibre recommended for use on driven wild boar is .270. Tell you what, I'll stand off to one side and drop one with a 48gr SJHP. Than you face one down with your intzy-wintzy 55gr accutip. I bet you'll have to run faster than me!

 

Seriously, have a look at that website. There really are a lot of wild boar in E.Sussex.

[Deker 3,478]

Cheeky sod. The minimum calibre recommended for use on driven wild boar is .270. Tell you what, I'll stand off to one side and drop one with a 48gr SJHP. Than you face one down with your intzy-wintzy 55gr accutip. I bet you'll have to run faster than me!

 

Seriously, have a look at that website. There really are a lot of wild boar in E.Sussex.

 

 

Ha Ha...I don't do running...The Wild Boar is one of the few reasons I invested in a .308, heavy slow lump tends to work quite well on the Boar!! Give me a shout when and I'll show you!!

[rjimmer 4]

 

Since the 6.5x55 was originally a military round, I would guess not! Interesting point tho'

 

Ric

 

The expression I have heard is 'War calibre' ie used in a war.

Has the 6.5X55 been used in a 'war'?

 

I had thought that the rule was to stop all the old wartime weapons and ammo being used uncontrolled.

 

We had a stalker coming over some years ago. He was in charge of the police armoury/weapons store in the capital of a certain European country. He had got hold of a 7X57 Manlicher action but could not make use of it because it was a 'war' calibre. He took our keeper's BSA 7X57 back with him and it came back as a Manlicher with the same serial number as before but very little of the original weapon left.

Perhaps the rule about 'war' calibres only applies in certain countries.

 

Edit: Just found a reference to military calibres being prohibited in private ownership 'in countires such as France'.

Edited December 19, 2009 by rjimmer

[RicW 67]

rjimmer -

 

As I recollect the Norwegian Army was equipped with the the 6.5mm Krag-Jorgenson whan the country was invaded by Germany in WWII. In general terms, you are correct that many countries banned the use of military calibres after the War, but this was a national rather than international decision. Britain, of course already had quite tough laws controlling private ownership of guns and a strong tradition of rivalry between top civilian riflemen and Forces shooters. Banning the .303 would have prevented the annual Bisley 4-way shoot-out. Of course, that went to the wall post Hungerford with the ban on private ownership of semi-auto rifles, quietly amended to permit rimfires.

 

The scene in Australia was interesting. The Oz govt banned the use of .303 ammo but allowed returning servicemen to keep their Lee-Enfields. The result was a crop of .303/.22 and .303/.25 wildcats the equal of any of the American rounds based on the 30-06. (I am using the correct terminology. The practice in Oz was to put the parent calibre first, while the Americans put the new calibre first, as in 22-250.)

 

The reason nobody bothered with the French mil.surplus rifles was that the Lebel was a truly CRAP piece of kit!

 

Deker -

 

I have a standing invite, when I get sorted, to shoot fox and rabbits on a 200 acre pheasant shoot. The owner has also had problems with boar, which don't mix well with ground nesting birds. I will get back to you ASAP!

 

Ric

Edited December 20, 2009 by RicW

[rjimmer 4]

Not just France that prohibits military calibres, making .223, 30-06 and .308 unavailable for civilian use.

Edited December 20, 2009 by rjimmer

[AB TAC 0]

Not just France that prohibits military calibres, making .223, 30-06 and .308 unavailable for civilian use.

Everyone's saying you cant have military calibres in France, well that isn't true, you can have any calibre you like, but they will limit how many you have, and how much ammunition you have.

 

18 months ago I was looking at relocating to France so i went into the local cop shop in Brittany, as I had 10 guns on my ticket, with 5.56, 7.62 and 30-06 he said no problem, but you are only allowed 4 military rifles and 2x9mm pistols, when i said can I get the ticket, he went away and called someone, at which point he said 2 days,

 

 

You wont find service like that in the UK, my friend who lives down round Toulouse even has his local Gendarmes deliver his ammo,

 

Problem is, haven't managed to make the jump yet, but working on it hard, as its one of the best countries I have ever been to to shoot in, only beaten by Russia, now there really is an experiance.

[rjimmer 4]

http://www.wfsa.net/int_leg/france.html

[AB TAC 0]

Talked to my friend in Brittany tonight, military calibres are still available in France, the law has been tightened up though (Missed that one) you now need extra permissions, though if you already have a military calibre or have it on a UK ticket they will allow it.

[DeerNut 0]

I use 1 rifle for both fox and deer and its a Tikka 595 allweather in 7mm08,

100/120gr for fox

140gr for deer

[rjimmer 4]

Talked to my friend in Brittany tonight, military calibres are still available in France,

 

A lot of things are 'available' in France. The dealers don't care who they sell what to. A friend of mine moved over there 3 years ago and has been offered allsorts. 22rf, .410 with Brenneke slugs, centrefire rifles. No subsonic rf though and no sound moderators. He's had to make use of an 'air rifle' mod.

Must be a different part to where you went, because he says there is just nothing on the ground except a few Coypu. Every Sunday morning, the woods are full of guns shooting anything that moves, no matter who owns the land. No bird song, no rabbits, nothing!